Mike McCarthy Is On The Hot Seat

except that he probably isn't.

In an article that does its level best to ratchet up public pressure on the Packer's Head Coach, it starts with a familiar list of complaints. The HC has only collected one Super Bowl, lots of last minute playoff failure, a lost year on offense, hitting the 10 year mark, pressure from being status quo for so long and a very certain statement on rumors of McCarthy's displeasure with Thompson's GM methods.

It then its the presentation by subverting the premise of the entire article by saying this pressure is unlike those about to be canned and he one day might rank with Holmgren, Lambeau and Lombardi.

Offseason fodder, nothing more or less.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/05/27/mik...rs-nfl-coaches

However, Don Banks is a pretty routine, blasé reporter. He's not a bomb thrower. He's much more Silverstein than McGinn. But that mention of friction between M3 and T2 not only repeats it, but labels it a persistent storyline.

McGinn's version of this (the only other known published version of the story that I am aware of) was lacking in specifics and sourcing. The source was familiar with the team and M3 ad could have simply been an agent repeating scuttlebutt.

But "persistent storyline" means its making the rounds of reporters at least. So is it a manufactured rumor that has simply not been knokcked down yet, or is the smoke before the fire?

Every coach is on the hot seat right?

I wonder what TT thinks of Capers. 3 years in a row the defense has failed at the end of a playoff game after the offense had tied the game. I wonder if there's any friction between TT and MM regarding Capers. (Tossing Wist a softball here.)

No, MM is not on the hotseat...

1) he is a good offensive coach, and good overall head coach
2) he prefers a finesse style of football, and so does TT - it is that preference for finesse that is more problematic than the other things that have led to collapses
3) on the defensive side of the football, which MM is generally hands-off with, dunderdummy can't play soft enough - which is also TT's preference

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None of these guys are going anywhere anytime soon... all 3 guys are in complete agreement philosophically; and, all 3 guys are generally good at their jobs (although dunderdummy has a flesh eating worm running around in his brain - which leads to stupidity of monumental proportions). Add it up, and they are triplets joined at the hip.

10-6 is always good enough for these guys - if they stumble into a championship like '10, yaaaaayyyyy!!! Then right back to the turtle, finesse approach.

The clock is ticking on Rodgers, and Matthews is on the downside now; Nelson is 31... we don't have any other elite players at any position - that's TT's fault.

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Originally Posted by Joemailman

I wonder what TT thinks of Capers. 3 years in a row the defense has failed at the end of a playoff game after the offense had tied the game. I wonder if there's any friction between TT and MM regarding Capers. (Tossing Wist a softball here.)

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The last one was somewhat forgivable with a rookie CB who had played exceedingly well blew an assignment. That is right up draft and development alley. And his position coach is one of the best on the team.

Urinalism at its finest. These kinds of stories speculate quite a bit. So, if some source, alleges the point about McCarthy being weary of Thompson's methods of team building to be true, then someone else writing a piece like this will quote the alleged point, but not source it. Lazy and speculative.

more re-manufactured than manufactured. his "hot seat" days are behind him. this team has huge turn over so there's no 'message lost'. mm can't be held responsible for injuries or talent. if anyone's seat is the least bit warm i'd say it's tt.

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Originally Posted by gbgary

more re-manufactured than manufactured. his "hot seat" days are behind him. this team has huge turn over so there's no 'message lost'. mm can't be held responsible for injuries or talent. if anyone's seat is the least bit warm i'd say it's tt.

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None of these guys is going anywhere - until they decide to leave. 10-6 in perpetuity is good enough for the Packers organization.

How many impact players, i.e. elite level players has TT drafted?? Rodgers is it... Jordy is just below that, and Clay a slight level below that.

I know the homers will say it is b/c we always draft in the 20's, but that doesn't fly... Seattle managed to find a basket full of impact players after the 1st round. How good would Bobby Wagner (2nd round) look in Green and Gold?? or Cam Chancellor (5th round), or Richard Sherman (5th round)??

Richard Sherman was pick #154 - Ted took TE DJ Williams with pick #141 in the 2011 draft

Cam Chancellor was pick #133 - Ted traded his 3rd and 4th round picks to move up 15 spots in the 3rd round to take Morgan Burnett. In the 5th round TT took TE Andrew Quarless.

Bobby Wagner was pick #47 - Ted spent a first round pick on Nick Perry, pick #28; then used pick #51 on DT Jerel Worthy.

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Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but TT really isn't all he's cracked up to be.

He's only hit on a few guys over the course of 11 years. If he hadn't departed from his myopic approach to roster building during '10 season, i.e. by signing Woodson, Pickett, and Greene - we wouldn't have lucked out and won the SB that year.

I believe it was Ron Wolfe who coined the phrase, "a fart in the wind", lol...

We're playoff contenders every year, but I don't consider our team overall to be at the level necessary to seriously contend for the SB.

You have to give TT credit for Collins as an impact player. Possibly Finley, had he stayed healthy. Sitton, for as much as a guard can be an impact player. Lang is close, for as much as a guard can be. Lacy was very much an impact player as a rookie when he carried a lot of the offense with Rodgers out, I'm not sure what he is now. As a second/third year player, Bulaga was being talked about as being among the best RTs in the league. That is an impact. Injuries have changed him.

Thereafter, it depends on your standard for impact. However, on this board it is clear that as to equal players, the nonPacker is an impact player and the Packer is JAG.

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Originally Posted by Patler

You have to give TT credit for Collins as an impact player. Possibly Finley, had he stayed healthy. Sitton, for as much as a guard can be an impact player. Lang is close, for as much as a guard can be. Lacy was very much an impact player as a rookie when he carried a lot of the offense with Rodgers out, I'm not sure what he is now. As a second/third year player, Bulaga was being talked about as being among the best RTs in the league. That is an impact. Injuries have changed him.

Thereafter, it depends on your standard for impact. However, on this board it is clear that as to equal players, the nonPacker is an impact player and the Packer is JAG.

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I certainly don't consider Sitton and Lang impact players - they're good, but that's about it. I agree on Collins and Finley, but they weren't around long enough... another guy I would add to that level just below elite would Greg Jennings.

So that brings us back to Rodgers, Nelson, and Matthews.

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So by my count, that would be 1 impact player (Rodgers), and 5 very good players (Collins, Finley, Jennings, Matthews, Nelson).

Perhaps that should have been enough to get us at least 1 more title in TT's 11 year run - but alas, he refuses to fix major holes on the roster, and we end up limping thru season after season with a pretty big, exploitable flaw somewhere on the field. The question always comes back to - if TT had only filled a hole here and there, would we have won more championships?? We'll never know - what we know is that we got 1 in '10, and it's likely that is going to be it for Rodgers career.

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Originally Posted by wist43

I certainly don't consider Sitton and Lang impact players - they're good, but that's about it. I agree on Collins and Finley, but they weren't around long enough... another guy I would add to that level just below elite would Greg Jennings.

So that brings us back to Rodgers, Nelson, and Matthews.

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So by my count, that would be 1 impact player (Rodgers), and 5 very good players (Collins, Finley, Jennings, Matthews, Nelson).

Perhaps that should have been enough to get us at least 1 more title in TT's 11 year run - but alas, he refuses to fix major holes on the roster, and we end up limping thru season after season with a pretty big, exploitable flaw somewhere on the field. The question always comes back to - if TT had only filled a hole here and there, would we have won more championships?? We'll never know - what we know is that we got 1 in '10, and it's likely that is going to be it for Rodgers career.

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Collins, Matthews, Nelson, Finley are just very good? They are or were top 5 at their position consistently. As to Lang and Sitton, they are as well. You not even labeling them as very good, when you are hard pressed to find 10 better players in the league tells me you don't understand how to identify an oline players quality. For some one who likes 'tough' football players, you just threw some of the toughest in the league under the bus.
I acknowledge TT has not been good on the defensive drafting.

Sitton went what, two and a half years without giving up a sacK? Yup, no impact player there on a team that lives by the pass.

*Yawn*

We need another shit stirrer in addition to Wist. I appreciate his contrarian view but we need a new set of opposing argument to spice this place up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patler

Sitton went what, two and a half years without giving up a sacK? Yup, no impact player there on a team that lives by the pass.

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Sitton is a "very good" pass blocker - which is all the Packers really care about - while he is just an average, probably below average run blocker.

No, that does not cut the mustard to being an overall "very good" player. He is a good player.

Lang is a notch below Sitton, maybe a slightly better run blocker...

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Originally Posted by Upnorth

Collins, Matthews, Nelson, Finley are just very good? They are or were top 5 at their position consistently. As to Lang and Sitton, they are as well. You not even labeling them as very good, when you are hard pressed to find 10 better players in the league tells me you don't understand how to identify an oline players quality. For some one who likes 'tough' football players, you just threw some of the toughest in the league under the bus.
I acknowledge TT has not been good on the defensive drafting.

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Of Collins, Matthews, Nelson, and Finley - the only one I'd consider for "elite" status would be Nelson. Collins would make that category if his career hadn't ended so abruptly. Matthews isn't elite - and of course age is now becoming a factor for him.

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Originally Posted by wist43

Sitton is a "very good" pass blocker - which is all the Packers really care about - while he is just an average, probably below average run blocker.

No, that does not cut the mustard to being an overall "very good" player. He is a good player.

Lang is a notch below Sitton, maybe a slightly better run blocker...

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Sitton is more than "very good" as a pass blocker. He didn't give up a sack in 37 consecutive games until this year and typically yields about 10 pressures per year. What more do you expect? As a run blocker, he typically is credited by McGinn with only about 10-12 bad runs in a year. Is he a road grader clearing paths for ball carrier? No, but I'm not sure anyone would be in the Packers offense. Sitton has been generally mentioned as one of the best five guards in any list you see. How is that not an impact player when the league has 64 starters at guard?

If Sitton was on another team, you would call him a great pick, and criticize TT for having passed on him while taking Joe Schmoe. But, since he actually is a Packer, he naturally isn't that good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patler

Sitton is more than "very good" as a pass blocker. He didn't give up a sack in 37 consecutive games until this year and typically yields about 10 pressures per year. What more do you expect? As a run blocker, he typically is credited by McGinn with only about 10-12 bad runs in a year. Is he a road grader clearing paths for ball carrier? No, but I'm not sure anyone would be in the Packers offense. Sitton has been generally mentioned as one of the best five guards in any list you see. How is that not an impact player when the league has 64 starters at guard?

If Sitton was on another team, you would call him a great pick, and criticize TT for having passed on him while taking Joe Schmoe. But, since he actually is a Packer, he naturally isn't that good.

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If only Thompson and McCarthy didn't enjoy having soft teams so much!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wist43

Of Collins, Matthews, Nelson, and Finley - the only one I'd consider for "elite" status would be Nelson. Collins would make that category if his career hadn't ended so abruptly. Matthews isn't elite - and of course age is now becoming a factor for him.

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This whole thing started with you saying Rodgers is the only elite player that TT has drafted. So now you're saying that Collins wasn't an elite player because James Stewart landed on his head and ended his career? After Collins went to 3 straight Pro Bowls and helped the Packers win the Super Bowl by returning an INT for a TD? Oh wait. I forgot. The Super Bowl doesn't count. That was just luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patler

Sitton is more than "very good" as a pass blocker. He didn't give up a sack in 37 consecutive games until this year and typically yields about 10 pressures per year. What more do you expect? As a run blocker, he typically is credited by McGinn with only about 10-12 bad runs in a year. Is he a road grader clearing paths for ball carrier? No, but I'm not sure anyone would be in the Packers offense. Sitton has been generally mentioned as one of the best five guards in any list you see. How is that not an impact player when the league has 64 starters at guard?

If Sitton was on another team, you would call him a great pick, and criticize TT for having passed on him while taking Joe Schmoe. But, since he actually is a Packer, he naturally isn't that good.

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How many turnovers does he have? Passes broken up? Touchdowns?

Only skill position players who are the top 2 in the league are good enough picks. Anything less is average at best.

We are lucky to have McCarthy to turn this pile of nothing into a playoff caliber team I guess.

Its funny though, I never get the impression we are outclassed (when healthy) until M3 starts coaching close late game strategy. Must be my lying eyes.