More Banjo: Week 3 vs Lions

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Originally Posted by arcilite

This is just wrong.

Detroit was eating up possession in the second half with long sustained drives (due to Packers thin D).

We had one drive stall for a FG due to a holding penalty.

One drive end due to a drop by Cobb

Another drive basically end due to a Trevor Davis drop

In the above drives McCarthy called excellent plays, I believe. You want to run the clock out and put the team in manageable 3rd down distances. That was achieved but the players did not execute as well as they should have.

On the final drive Lacy made some great runs to end the game.

Now please explain to us how the foot was taken off the gas? Should we throw every single play and eat up only 20 seconds off the clock on a drive? Then we will be reading posts from you about how the play calling sucks and McCarthy didn't feed Lacy who had a great day?

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Lacy had 17 carries. 6 in the first half when they forgot about the running the football more and had four straight scoring drives. In the second half, they gave him 11 carries and had one scoring drive. On their sole scoring drive, they gave him the ball 5 times, threw twice and had Rodgers scramble twice.

EDIT: Most likely, that's four called pass plays.

It was a good drive killed by a penalty. But that happens more often when you run.

My evidence of foot off the gas is first downs by half: 1-8-2 (run-pass-penalty) for a total of 11 in the first half. Second half? 1-5-0 for six total.

The offense disappeared on the scoreboard, field position and first downs when they ran more. The defense needed more help than just bleeding time.

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Originally Posted by pbmax

Lacy had 17 carries. 6 in the first half when they forgot about the running the football more and had four straight scoring drives. In the second half, they gave him 11 carries and had one scoring drive. On their sole scoring drive, they gave him the ball 5 times, threw twice and had Rodgers scramble twice.

It was a good drive killed by a penalty. But that happens more often when you run.

My evidence of foot off the gas is first downs by half: 1-8-2 (run-pass-penalty) for a total of 11 in the first half. Second half? 1-5-0 for six total.

The offense disappeared on the scoreboard, field position and first downs when they ran more. The defense needed more help than just bleeding time.

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haven't we seen the defense come out decent at the start of seasons before, only to be run down by the time the playoffs get him. losing the TOP battle by as much as we did today will to that to a defense over the course of the season, and games

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Originally Posted by red

haven't we seen the defense come out decent at the start of seasons before, only to be run down by the time the playoffs get him. losing the TOP battle by as much as we did today will to that to a defense over the course of the season, and games

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I am not a huge believer in TOP over the season causing an issue.

In a game, if its hugely one-sided? Yes.

But its more comfort and the ability to call ALL your offense and ALL your defense. If you are playing a style to bleed slowly, it becomes easier to take advantage of the defense. Same with the O. Nothing easier to defend or substitute for than run-run-pass.

Ripkowski also did not return. That might explain some of the weirdness in the second half and the reappearance of that toss play.

M3 did not have more details.

Randall was ill before and during the game.

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Originally Posted by pbmax

Ripkowski also did not return. That might explain some of the weirdness in the second half and the reappearance of that toss play.

M3 did not have more details.

Randall was ill before and during the game.

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Kinda made me a little sick watching him. :grin:

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Originally Posted by pbmax

The offense disappeared on the scoreboard, field position and first downs when they ran more. The defense needed more help than just bleeding time.

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I think I agree more with max and red that the offense became too conservative in the second half, which is certainly a trait of McCarthy when he gets a big lead. That isn't necessarily a trait that will doom your team, but it isn't one that is going to help your team either. With the Packer defense today basically trying to hold itself together with duct tape and band-aids, the offense needed to be more aggressive and score as many points as possible.

While the Lions certainly played better in the 2nd half and made sure we weren't going to score 31 additional, the fact that we only got a field goal in the second half and couldn't really put the dagger into a very hapless Lions team is concerning. I'm not lighting a pitchfork on fire and storming the Packer front offices on Monday, but there is a certain level of accountability that needs to happen...McCarthy should stand up and admit that he and the team need to work on this issue.

Jared Cook had his foot in a walking boot and exited the locker room on crutches. Ripkowski has a back.

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Originally Posted by King Friday

I think I agree more with max and red that the offense became too conservative in the second half, which is certainly a trait of McCarthy when he gets a big lead. That isn't necessarily a trait that will doom your team, but it isn't one that is going to help your team either. With the Packer defense today basically trying to hold itself together with duct tape and band-aids, the offense needed to be more aggressive and score as many points as possible.

While the Lions certainly played better in the 2nd half and made sure we weren't going to score 31 additional, the fact that we only got a field goal in the second half and couldn't really put the dagger into a very hapless Lions team is concerning. I'm not lighting a pitchfork on fire and storming the Packer front offices on Monday, but there is a certain level of accountability that needs to happen...McCarthy should stand up and admit that he and the team need to work on this issue.

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except in nfc championship games of course

Not sure what to think after the game. I just finished watching it on tape after having to miss the game live.

I am not sure how you can complain about the O in the 2nd half. I think we only had 4 possessions in the 2nd half. We scored on 1, punted twice and run out the last 4 minutes of the game without giving Det a chance to tie the game.

If I remember correctly we had 10 total possessions. We scored on 6, punted 2, run 2 plays to finish the 1st half, and ran out the last 4 minutes of the 2nd half sealing the game making sure DET never had the ball when they were only behind by 1 score or less.

The 2nd half "struggles" occurred because DET had some sustained long scoring drives.

Just was looking at the box score on NFL.com. Two other notes, Packer offense had 1 three and out the whole game. ARod had 205 yards passing.

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Originally Posted by ThunderDan

Just was looking at the box score on NFL.com. Two other notes, Packer offense had 1 three and out the whole game. ARod had 205 yards passing.

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yes, and he had 174 of those at halftime

so 31 yards on 4 drives in the second half

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Originally Posted by ThunderDan

Not sure what to think after the game. I just finished watching it on tape after having to miss the game live.

I am not sure how you can complain about the O in the 2nd half. I think we only had 4 possessions in the 2nd half. We scored on 1, punted twice and run out the last 4 minutes of the game without giving Det a chance to tie the game.

If I remember correctly we had 10 total possessions. We scored on 6, punted 2, run 2 plays to finish the 1st half, and ran out the last 4 minutes of the 2nd half sealing the game making sure DET never had the ball when they were only behind by 1 score or less.

The 2nd half "struggles" occurred because DET had some sustained long scoring drives.

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It's easy to complain. Had they been playing a decent team. Stubby's foot of the gas approach would have been a losing one.

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Originally Posted by pbmax

Lacy had 17 carries. 6 in the first half when they forgot about the running the football more and had four straight scoring drives. In the second half, they gave him 11 carries and had one scoring drive. On their sole scoring drive, they gave him the ball 5 times, threw twice and had Rodgers scramble twice.

EDIT: Most likely, that's four called pass plays.

It was a good drive killed by a penalty. But that happens more often when you run.

My evidence of foot off the gas is first downs by half: 1-8-2 (run-pass-penalty) for a total of 11 in the first half. Second half? 1-5-0 for six total.

The offense disappeared on the scoreboard, field position and first downs when they ran more. The defense needed more help than just bleeding time.

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It was a good drive killed by a penalty on an attempted pass play. The fact that Rodgers had to twice pull the ball down and run on that drive might indicate that the Lions and had made some defensive adjustments, and what had worked so splendidly in the 1st half wasn't working as well now.

The main difference between 1-8-2 and 1-5-0 may have been the fact that the Lions had some long scoring drives in the second half. I understand the frustration people have. But I wonder how many coaches with a 21 point half time lead and a defense minus 5 starters wouldn't have tried to run the ball.

So I went through the play calls in the 2nd half for the Packers. We ran 28 total plays. 3 were punts and field goals and the last 3 were kneel downs by ARod.

That leaves 22 "real" plays in the 2nd half. We ran 12 times and passed 10 if you count ARod's scrambles as pass plays. So we had 55/45 run/pass mix not as unbalanced as many here felt.

We ran 30 plays in the 1st half. 1 FG, 21 passes and 8 runs. First half mix 28/72 run/pass mix.

This is probably why the 2nd half seemed so run heavy.

TOP by half

11:33 - 13:20 total 24:53.

The start of the second half had a definite, different feel to it than the start of the 1st half. The emphasis at the beginning of the 1st half was an aggressive passing attack. Pass first to set up the run, Tex would say.

At the start of the second half the emphasis was on Lacy pounding the pill. We were leading 31-10 at half-time, so Stubby coming out with a conservative plan to run more in the second half (take his foot off the gas) is kind of conventional wisdom. I didn't mind it.

But when Detroit started moving the ball/scoring and the running game stalled due to zero rushing yardage on 1st down and penalties, I felt we should have gone back to the aggressive passing attack, especially in the 4th quarter and especially at the end of the game.

Like someone said (pbmax, I think) it isn't a sound plan to rely on Arod to scramble on third down for 10 yards for a much needed 1st down in those situations.

On our 12 "real" runs in the 2nd half we gained 60 yards. That averages to 5 ypc.

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Originally Posted by ThunderDan

So I went through the play calls in the 2nd half for the Packers. We ran 28 total plays. 3 were punts and field goals and the last 3 were kneel downs by ARod.

That leaves 22 "real" plays in the 2nd half. We ran 12 times and passed 10 if you count ARod's scrambles as pass plays. So we had 55/45 run/pass mix not as unbalanced as many here felt.

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Not sure on anyone else, but I'm not really talking about the run/pass mix. I'm talking about the aggressiveness of the play calling. You can call 100% pass plays and still be a conservative offense. You can run the ball 75% of the time and still be an aggressive offense.

You don't want to become PREDICTABLE. Out of 10 first down plays in the 2nd half, we ran on 7 of them. 2 of the 3 passes were out of the shotgun formation. So, in general, the defense knew that if we weren't in shotgun, we were running it. That is too predictable for me in a game that had not yet been decided. McCarthy seemed to call the offense in the second half as if it were decided...something he has done before, occasionally to the detriment of the team.

I'm fine with 7 of 10 plays being run plays...if the pass plays look the same at the line of scrimmage and are keeping the defense honest. Run a couple play action plays and go for the dagger, if you will. But the Packer offense mostly went in to a shell, hoping to run off enough time to hold on for the win.

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Originally Posted by ThunderDan

On our 12 "real" runs in the 2nd half we gained 60 yards. That averages to 5 ypc.

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Averages don't really matter much. Situations matter. When you run on 1st down, or first and second down and gain no yards or 2 yards in a "must get a 1st down situation," you are then forced to throw the ball on third down (maybe even 2nd down) and everyone knows it.

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Originally Posted by King Friday

Not sure on anyone else, but I'm not really talking about the run/pass mix. I'm talking about the aggressiveness of the play calling. You can call 100% pass plays and still be a conservative offense. You can run the ball 75% of the time and still be an aggressive offense.

You don't want to become PREDICTABLE. Out of 10 first down plays in the 2nd half, we ran on 7 of them. 2 of the 3 passes were out of the shotgun formation. So, in general, the defense knew that if we weren't in shotgun, we were running it. That is too predictable for me in a game that had not yet been decided. McCarthy seemed to call the offense in the second half as if it were decided...something he has done before, occasionally to the detriment of the team.

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I pretty much agree. I think Stubby thought the game was well in hand (heck, I did too), so he came out conservative instead of aggressive in the second half. When the Lions started to move the ball and score, Stubby was taken by surprise...I was too. Maybe it's tough to go aggressive for a half, dial it back and then try to dial it up again when the situation gets tense.