Serious Question: Love vs Clifford

From that ESPN article:

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Love ranks last in completion rate (57.7%) among the 32 qualifying quarterbacks, just behind the Jets' Zach Wilson (58.3%). The Packers rank 25th in total yards per game and 21st in passing yards per game.

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Not exactly where you want him to be. I think the OL and receivers and lack of a running game all have made the evaluation of Love a little tougher to make, but I'm fine with them giving him the entire season to figure it out. I expect them to give him time next year too. Even if they somehow drafted Drake Maye I'd expect Love to be the starter on Day 1 of training camp.

His accuracy is not great but with a good enough supporting cast he's talented enough to win some games. That supporting cast has not been there this season. You could say the strengths of the offense (OL, RBs, an expected Watson/Doubs year 2 leap, MLF's scheme) have evaporated.

As for Clifford, I think he's a fine guy to have on the QB room and clipboard holder, but I don't want him playing meaningful snaps this year. I don't think he's an upgrade over Love, and I'm not even sure there's that much upside to him. I think he could get you out of a game with a lead, but I don't think he's going to win you games as a starter or get you to playoff contention given a half season of starts. Not unless you give him Deebo, Chase, and Bijon.

If we drafted Drake Maye, I think Love would start the first half of the season, but you’d want to see Maye play before you decide to let Love go.

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Originally Posted by Fosco33

Goot basically said he’s got 10 games to prove he can start in the league.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...e?platform=amp

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"When the group as a whole is not functioning the way it should function, then it's hard to evaluate anybody," Gutekunst said.

This is similar to what I keep saying about it being symbiotic. When one starts playing better it has a domino effect. Its the reason you see guys who look damn good playing for X sign a free agency contract with Y and shit the bed. Some people are products of their environment, and some people impose their will on their environment. We need more of the latter.

I’m w/ you Bobble. Too early to throw in the towel

Of course it's too early.

With that being said, I don't see hope that the Luv Machine reaches the elite status you want in a high priced QB; using a 1st and a 4th on Love looks bad right now, and using two 2nd round draft picks for Watson looks bad as well for Gutebag

Love is a late first round pick. You don't expect to have great QBs that late. It's what you hope for, but you know they have limitations if they make it that far down.

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Originally Posted by Fosco33

I’m not concerned about Love yet.

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I’m not concerned about Love at all. I just want to get laid.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

I’m not concerned about Love at all. I just want to get laid.

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There’s apps for that - and pills

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Originally Posted by Bretsky

Of course it's too early.

With that being said, I don't see hope that the Luv Machine reaches the elite status you want in a high priced QB; using a 1st and a 4th on Love looks bad right now, and using two 2nd round draft picks for Watson looks bad as well for Gutebag

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I disagree on Watson. I think he still has a legit chance at becoming a top 5 NFL WR. Love, like any QB is unlikely to become "elite". I still think you can win with him, he just won't carry us.

I don't think Love or Watson are busts, and I agree it's too early to make such declarations.

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

I disagree on Watson. I think he still has a legit chance at becoming a top 5 NFL WR. Love, like any QB is unlikely to become "elite". I still think you can win with him, he just won't carry us.

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Top 5 ? I don't see it.

He's no Greg Jennings as a route runner. So fast, yet sloppy so far

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Originally Posted by sharpe1027

Love is a late first round pick. You don't expect to have great QBs that late. It's what you hope for, but you know they have limitations if they make it that far down.

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LOVE, or LEVIS (round 2)

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Originally Posted by Bretsky

LOVE, or LEVIS (round 2)

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Levis may end up being similar for a better value based on draft capital, but I don't see him becoming a top 10 QB either. Again, too early to definitively state that either can't ascend, but certain things don't seem to be there....of course for Rodgers first 2 years I said he doesn't process game information fast enough to be elite, so what do I know.

Levis has played like 2 games, way too early to say anything. Once teams get film on him they will scheme him up, just like teams have with Love.
He was talked about by the media as a potential top 10 pick and teams passed repeatedly on him and he lasted to Day 2. That tells you something about what teams thought, and last year's QB class wasn't as good as this upcoming one.

Levis does seem to have better touch than Love on deep throws, but I think he's a risky gunslinger type like Jordan Love. They are pretty similar players, but I think Levis has better accuracy.
I'm not sure how well he processes but he's got a cannon arm. Would be interested to see what Levis in Year 2 will look like.

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

Levis may end up being similar for a better value based on draft capital, but I don't see him becoming a top 10 QB either. Again, too early to definitively state that either can't ascend, but certain things don't seem to be there....of course for Rodgers first 2 years I said he doesn't process game information fast enough to be elite, so what do I know.

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It's in interesting comparison for those who defend Love by saying he's not a top 10 pick. I don't embrace that logic. If Gute was willing to trade a 1st and a 4th to get Love I think his expectation would be he could be at least near Elite.

When I watched Levis last night I thought he was pretty accurate and slinged the ball around with very little effort. I could see him being in the top 10 "ish" range.

I would take him over Love w/o any hesitation right now.

Love has also had a few years to practice for this year; he just doesn't seem accurate

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Originally Posted by Bretsky

It's in interesting comparison for those who defend Love by saying he's not a top 10 pick. I don't embrace that logic. If Gute was willing to trade a 1st and a 4th to get Love I think his expectation would be he could be at least near Elite.

When I watched Levis last night I thought he was pretty accurate and slinged the ball around with very little effort. I could see him being in the top 10 "ish" range.

I would take him over Love w/o any hesitation right now.

Love has also had a few years to practice for this year; he just doesn't seem accurate

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Mostly agree. Gutes made that trade because HE thought Love should have been a top 10 pick.

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

Mostly agree. Gutes made that trade because HE thought Love should have been a top 10 pick.

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1000% agree; winner post. And that is how we should be measuring that decision by.

He's squirmed back under the rock on this but I get a kick out of Mel Kiper still pointing this out. THose guys love to be right and point out when the other is wrong.

Todd McShay had love rated higher then Justin Hebert that year and noted some of the scouts out there did as well. Guessing Gutebag was one of them.

I think Herbert is overrated, but I'd have taken Herbert over Love then and I would now.

For those who think Clifford should play instead of Love, consider how the Rams offense looked with Rypien. I'm fairly confident that Clifford would play about that poorly as the starter.
You absolutely want Jordan Love to play as many games as possible this season to get a full evaluation. Right now he looks pretty meh to me, but based on preseason he's clearly better than Clifford. Clifford's ceiling might be Taylor Heinecke, and that's fine for a backup but not as a starter.

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Originally Posted by Bretsky

Top 5 ? I don't see it.

He's no Greg Jennings as a route runner. So fast, yet sloppy so far

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You can improve route running, but you can't learn to be the fastest guy in the NFL (or right up there). You can't learn to be 6'4" but you can add muscle. I have seen him flat out bust angles 3 times in something like 15 games he has played now. If things around him improve, that kind of elite athleticism always has a shot.

Man alive. We won! Seriously not trying to be a stick in the mud about it, but again the QB play was bad. The first half could have put Richard Simmons in a coma for how fucking boring this offense is. But I guess that’s what you get when your QB can’t hit the broad side of a barn at 25 yards. And I guess Love got the white genes on his legs? The guy can’t even create space in the pocket much less worry anyone about headed downfield. That was one the fun parts about Rodgers taking over… you were reminded young QBs can run. I guess Love sucks at that too. So he’s got black guy accuracy and white guy speed. Awesome. At least the defense looked good playing a bunch of tards. By tards I mean retards for you city folk.