ARE WE GIVING AROD A FREE PASS ??????????????????

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Originally Posted by denverYooper

The future.

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I just discovered that NFL.Com scooped the award ceremony.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ist-of-winners

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Originally Posted by yetisnowman

Yes he does avoid interceptions at an historic rate, his interception rate would be worse if he just chucked up prayers assuming there were defensive penalties. Do you watch NFL games? Why would you ever assume a penalty in the NFL seriously? I don't need a source, there are no sources on something that obscure and obvious. It's logic. Do you have source stating that its not the qb's responsibility to be sure its a penalty? So let me get this straight, if an NFL qb THINKS there should be a defensive penalty, he should finish the play as though there is one, and is therefore absolved of any responsibility for the outcome of that play?

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I do watch games and I even get replays from behind the helmet of the QB. What he can see: the defensive end jumping off-side. What he cannot see: the line judge thirty yards to his right.

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Originally Posted by pbmax

I do watch games and I even get replays from behind the helmet of the QB. What he can see: the defensive end jumping off-side. What he cannot see: the line judge thirty yards to his right.

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Okay, fine. That's just a minuscule aspect of the overall point: uncharacteristic sloppiness.

Rodgers was not himself this game for some reason.

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Originally Posted by th87

Okay, fine. That's just a minuscule aspect of the overall point: uncharacteristic sloppiness.

Rodgers was not himself this game for some reason.

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That reason might be that he was playing on one leg against the NFL's best defense. He didn't have a great game, but he wasn't the reason the Packers blew a 12 point lead in the last 5 minutes.

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Via EarlThomas.com:

Right from the start, the Packers did a great job of keeping us off rhythm, especially Aaron Rodgers. I have to give Rodgers a lot of credit. Going into the game, after watching the tape of their game against Dallas, I honestly didn’t think he was that injured. I was preparing for the real Aaron Rodgers, not the hurt Aaron Rodgers.

But that guy was really hurt out there. Going against him in the game, I could tell immediately that he was really in pain. And it sounds funny, but that actually caught me off-guard. Now that I’m dealing with an injury of my own, I have even more respect for him and what he did. A tremendous amount of respect.

Statistically, Rodgers didn’t have a stellar game — 19/34 for one touchdown and two picks — but Thomas goes on to say that he managed to keep the defense off balance all afternoon with his cadence amd that he wasn’t fazed by the Seahawks’ aggressive tactics. Basically, he played well enough to win (at least through three and a half quarters), despite a debilitating injury:

He used a lot of quick-strike plays against us, and he attacked certain spots on the football field. It played to his advantage that they were playing an aggressive team like us. We were flying all around, but he was moving so slow and smooth. His focus was on point. I think that gave him an edge in the game.

He also used his cadence to disrupt our rhythm. He was double counting, triple counting and the ball wasn’t getting snapped until two seconds were left on the play clock. They did a great job of controlling the game in that aspect. When you talk about a football game, the game is always won up front. We have a great secondary, but our front allows us to have a lot of leeway, and all of us were just off rhythm early on.

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Originally Posted by pbmax

I do watch games and I even get replays from behind the helmet of the QB. What he can see: the defensive end jumping off-side. What he cannot see: the line judge thirty yards to his right.

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It's his responsibility to glance to the side, or notice a flag peripherally before just chucking it up. I'll ask in a different way...is it a sound decision as a quarterback to assume anything in the way of penalties? Have you ever seen a qb giftwrap a turnover, simply because he THOUGHT there was a defensive penalty? And you really would think well, aw shucks, he thought there should be a flag so it's not his fault. If Sam Shields thought he saw a hold on the offensive line, then let his man blow by him for a touchdown would you consider that his fault?
There is a lot of grey area in this game with the calf, play calling, and scheme. But if you can't admit that pick to Sherman was a mistake on Aaron's part, then I think you just have to own you are blinded by some agenda that I don't understand.

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Originally Posted by Joemailman

That reason might be that he was playing on one leg against the NFL's best defense. He didn't have a great game, but he wasn't the reason the Packers blew a 12 point lead in the last 5 minutes.

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No but he was a big part of why we were not up by 20 plus points with 5 minutes left. He even missed open receivers on the last drive that could have won the game.

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Originally Posted by yetisnowman

It's his responsibility to glance to the side, or notice a flag peripherally before just chucking it up. I'll ask in a different way...is it a sound decision as a quarterback to assume anything in the way of penalties? Have you ever seen a qb giftwrap a turnover, simply because he THOUGHT there was a defensive penalty? And you really would think well, aw shucks, he thought there should be a flag so it's not his fault. If Sam Shields thought he saw a hold on the offensive line, then let his man blow by him for a touchdown would you consider that his fault?
There is a lot of grey area in this game with the calf, play calling, and scheme. But if you can't admit that pick to Sherman was a mistake on Aaron's part, then I think you just have to own you are blinded by some agenda that I don't understand.

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That throw wasn't the best one he ever threw by a long shot but could that injury account for some of his inaccuracies since the Tampa game? Rodgers thought Seattle was offsides and replays show they were but we didn't get the flag.

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Originally Posted by Pugger

That throw wasn't the best one he ever threw by a long shot but could that injury account for some of his inaccuracies since the Tampa game? Rodgers thought Seattle was offsides and replays show they were but we didn't get the flag.

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How the calf affects accuracy can really never be proven. I am of the opinion that the calf injury didn't cause him to throw the inside and a jumpball, instead of towards the corner where the throw needed to be. But again that can never be proven. I just think you have to overcome adversity....whether it's a gimpy leg, rain, loud conditions, physical defenses, etc. Some of you see a million excuses, I see a million opportunities to rise above and succeed. Aaron's performance looked more par for the course in the playoffs, rather than some aberration due to injuries.

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Originally Posted by Pugger

That throw wasn't the best one he ever threw by a long shot but could that injury account for some of his inaccuracies since the Tampa game? Rodgers thought Seattle was offsides and replays show they were but we didn't get the flag.

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And I have yet to hear one good reason why what an NFL qb thinks is or isn't a penalty, is a justifiable excuse for turning the ball over.

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Originally Posted by yetisnowman

And I have yet to hear one good reason why what an NFL qb thinks is or isn't a penalty, is a justifiable excuse for turning the ball over.

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Rodgers likes to take a shot at a big play when he thinks he has a free play. He's done this throughout his career and has had some big plays off of it. This time it backfired. That happens sometimes. The next time in one of these situations he throws into tight coverage and hits Jordy for a 50 yard TD because he thinks he has a free play, will you say he shouldn't have thrown it because he couldn't be sure the flag would be thrown? I know I won't.

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Originally Posted by yetisnowman

Have you ever seen a qb giftwrap a turnover, simply because he THOUGHT there was a defensive penalty?

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Happened at least twice this past season - both times the INT was called back because of offsides. Granted, Rodgers and the Packers take many more chances on free plays (than other teams), because they seem able to draw the defense offsides much more frequently.

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But if you can't admit that pick to Sherman was a mistake on Aaron's part

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I hate straw men like these. Of course it was a mistake on Rodger's part. no one is denying that. The question is how culpable Rodgers is: that is, whether the gamble made sense or not, how justifiable it was, whether the wind contributed to the errant throw, the effect of the defense and the refs, etc. etc. So you disagree with some of us. What of it.

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Originally Posted by yetisnowman

It's his responsibility to glance to the side, or notice a flag peripherally before just chucking it up. I'll ask in a different way...is it a sound decision as a quarterback to assume anything in the way of penalties? Have you ever seen a qb giftwrap a turnover, simply because he THOUGHT there was a defensive penalty? And you really would think well, aw shucks, he thought there should be a flag so it's not his fault. If Sam Shields thought he saw a hold on the offensive line, then let his man blow by him for a touchdown would you consider that his fault?
There is a lot of grey area in this game with the calf, play calling, and scheme. But if you can't admit that pick to Sherman was a mistake on Aaron's part, then I think you just have to own you are blinded by some agenda that I don't understand.

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If Sam is seeing holding on pass plays, then he is doing his job terribly and should put his eyes back on the WR.

By contrast, a hard count or screwing with his cadence is precisely within the purview of the QB. Its his job to draw them offside.

But holding versus offside/encroachment is precisely why you fail to persuade. 99% of pre-snap penalties get called because there is nothing else happening and there are two sets of eyes on 8-10 players lined up in a row. Even if Seattle was drawn offside by a Packer flinching, there will be a penalty and the play is either free or comes back. Holding, illegal hands to face or DPI are all judgement calls and you cannot count on the flag.

Try to think of the last time one of those free shot plays bit the Packers in the ass. He's been doing it for at least five years. Name the previous times it has burned them.

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Originally Posted by yetisnowman

And I have yet to hear one good reason why what an NFL qb thinks is or isn't a penalty, is a justifiable excuse for turning the ball over.

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Because it has been more successful than any other play the Packers run regularly. You might as well argue that running left is a bad idea because the Packers once fumbled on the left side.

You want a Rodgers criticism? The throw was late (or should have been thrown deeper/outside) or it beats Sherman for a TD.

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Originally Posted by Joemailman

Rodgers likes to take a shot at a big play when he thinks he has a free play. He's done this throughout his career and has had some big plays off of it. This time it backfired. That happens sometimes. The next time in one of these situations he throws into tight coverage and hits Jordy for a 50 yard TD because he thinks he has a free play, will you say he shouldn't have thrown it because he couldn't be sure the flag would be thrown? I know I won't.

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He's discussing that one play in that one game. A poor throw by Aaron Rodgers. Not as much the decision to make the throw.

At the time of the throw Aaron Rodgers wasn't thinking:

'Ohh boy a defensive offside 'a free throw'... so I'll just let it go right there inside and uncatchable.'

That was a bad throw. That throw could 'only' be picked and it was. End of story.

Is that fact so hard to admit as the truth?

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Originally Posted by Joemailman

Rodgers likes to take a shot at a big play when he thinks he has a free play. He's done this throughout his career and has had some big plays off of it. This time it backfired. That happens sometimes. The next time in one of these situations he throws into tight coverage and hits Jordy for a 50 yard TD because he thinks he has a free play, will you say he shouldn't have thrown it because he couldn't be sure the flag would be thrown? I know I won't.

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I contend that in those situations, he's seen the flag thrown.

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Originally Posted by Joemailman

That reason might be that he was playing on one leg against the NFL's best defense. He didn't have a great game, but he wasn't the reason the Packers blew a 12 point lead in the last 5 minutes.

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This is precisely the 20,000 ft. view I'm talking about. Let's go to the ground level and examine the individual plays. Was it injury and good defense that caused him to miss Cobb deep over the middle, or on the slant? Or Nelson on the out route? It didn't seem that the defense was a factor on those misses - he was getting good protection, and the receivers were open. I couldn't tell you if it was the calf, but Rodgers himself had said that because the injury is not on his plant foot, his accuracy isn't affected.

I've noticed some unforced misses from him in the playoffs - things that don't happen as much during the regular season (it seems).

(It should go without saying that he's still the best in the business, but I don't think he's immune to questioning)

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Originally Posted by woodbuck27

He's discussing that one play in that one game. A poor throw by Aaron Rodgers. Not as much the decision to make the throw.

At the time of the throw Aaron Rodgers wasn't thinking:

'Ohh boy a defensive offside 'a free throw'... so I'll just let it go right there inside and uncatchable.'

That was a bad throw. That throw could 'only' be picked and it was. End of story.

Is that fact so hard to admit as the truth?

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I'm pretty sure everybody knows it was a bad throw. Whether or not Rodgers should have thrown the ball is I believe exactly what we were debating. Yetisnowman said It's his responsibility to glance to the side, or notice a flag peripherally before just chucking it up. My position is that is that I believe Rodgers has made big completions before without knowing if the ref has thrown the flag, so I was okay with him taking that chance.

If I have misrepresented Yetisnowman's argument, I apologize.

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Originally Posted by woodbuck27

He's discussing that one play in that one game. A poor throw by Aaron Rodgers. Not as much the decision to make the throw.

At the time of the throw Aaron Rodgers wasn't thinking:

'Ohh boy a defensive offside 'a free throw'... so I'll just let it go right there inside and uncatchable.'

That was a bad throw. That throw could 'only' be picked and it was. End of story.

Is that fact so hard to admit as the truth?

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Yeti has made two claims;

1. That Rodgers should be certain a flag has been thrown before assuming he has a free play. Assuming the flag will fly is foolish.

2. That the INT throw itself was a poor play, along with several other bad throws from him in the game.

Of course parsing both yeti and th87 is tough because one keeps responding to posts responding to the other.

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Originally Posted by pbmax

Yeti has made two claims;

1. That Rodgers should be certain a flag has been thrown before assuming he has a free play. Assuming the flag will fly is foolish.

2. That the INT throw itself was a poor play, along with several other bad throws from him in the game.

Of course parsing both yeti and th87 is tough because one keeps responding to posts responding to the other.

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I've been posting all week that Aaron Rodgers wasn't right in Seattle and the fact that's the case had little to do with his calf injury given it was a week after his solid performance at Lambeau Field Vs Dallas. Frankly his performance in Seattle was shocking. He looked not at all like himself and a regular season performance. As a member already posted. Aaron Rodgers throws off of his uninjured right leg. As Aaron Rodgers admitted himself the left calf injury isn't a factor in the mechanics of his passing.

Did you see him last night just prior to his MVP Award was announced?? If so what did you see? Did you observe him when his credentials were announced for the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award?

Aaron Rodgers is an intensely sensitive man. Aaron Rodgers gets balled up in his emotions. He takes all that into a big play off game (that chip on his shoulder attitude) and it doesn't spell 'good'. Look at the best athletes in any sport and winning. You see a winner. What you see most assuredly is coolness and seldom any cocky confidence. You see the nervous focus of a winner.

That's not Aaron Rodgers and playoffs since 2010-11.