The hamstring epidemic

so watsons dad came out and mentioned that christian had gone to see a specialist about his hamstring problem, and that the problem has been identified
, and they hope its something that can now be managed better. not fixed

he also mentioned that stokes also went to the same place

does anyone have any fucking clue what this could mean or what the problem is? theres a problem there, but its not something that can be fixed

im guessing its just the way he's built (muscles, tendons, ligaments) i don't see how you can do anything about it other then maybe stretching or some yoga crap

hopefully he didn't go to some nut job that told him his chi is out of balance or some crap

i don't know, anyone got any ideas?

https://twitter.com/NFLHitman33/stat...jury-update%2F

In January Packers fired strength and conditioning coach Chris Gizzi. I wonder if that's what Wajed meant by the problem being identified.

Three years ago the NFL helped fund a UW program studying the causes and treatments for hamstring injuries in elite athletes. Watson and Stokes went to that program, I believe.

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Originally Posted by Joemailman

In January Packers fired strength and conditioning coach Chris Gizzi. I wonder if that's what Wajed meant by the problem being identified.

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i took it to mean that they recently found something physically wrong with them, not just that they were being trained wrong. but i could be wrong

this is how i imagine the old strength coach being

https://youtu.be/KeTLWEOW7_Q?si=oIjijeOEgJnAbcOu

My hammies got hurt just reading this

Hamstring injuries tend to recur, and the recurrrence rate for hamstring strains is higher than almost any other soft tissue injury. Once you strain a hamstring, your chances of straining the same hamstring are higher than the odds were of straining it in the first place. And the more often they recur, the more often they're likely to keep recurring. In fact, a pre-existing hamstring injury is the most likely indicator of a future hamstring injury. Pre-existing hamstring, age of the athlete, and racial background are the only three non-modifiable risk factors for hamstring injury (athletes of Black African origin are more susceptible to hamstring injury because they have a disproportionately higher percentage of Type II "fast twitch" muscle fibers).

But there are also a number of contributing factors that are modifiable - for instance, detailed, targeted strength training that focuses not just on the hamstring itself but the quadriceps, pelvic, glutes, and trunk muscles to correct any imbalances between the muscle groups. Flexibility techniques are obviously important, and "gait training" - evaluating the athlete's stride and his footwork to isolate potential hitches or sloppy "bad habits" in his step that put an unhealthy load on the hamstring, especially at critical stages of his stride, and correcting that gait. Sometimes, something as simple as teaching the athlete to shorten his stride and take slightly shorter but more steps can make a significant difference.

Another factor that often contributes to hamstring reinjury is scar tissue - when the muscle fibers tear, scar tissue forms at the site of the injury, and this tissue is stiffer and less flexible than the original muscle fibers. This has the effect of stiffening that entore portiion of the hamstring, which is a significant risk factor for a recurring hamstring injury. One way to treat that is deep tissue massage, which is a really painful process where the hamstring is twisted and kneaded back and forth like you're making bread, to shear the scar tissue fibers. I had that done many years ago with a severe quad injury, and it's one of the most painful therapies I've ever had. In fact, it's often done with a nerve block or even under general anesthesia. This is one of the treatments Watson has been receiving.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4223289/

Here are a couple of really interesting podcasts, with Dr. Bryan Heiderscheit of UW Madison. He's the guy who's working with Watson and Stokes, and if you have a half hour to kill he'll explain a lot. The first link was from this past November, and the second one is 7 years old. Still interesting, but not as up to date as the first.

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts...t-sIfT_N8L2DG/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCq8BoxqLOQ&t=22s

holy shit dude

awesome info, exactly what i was asking about

thank you

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Originally Posted by Frozen Tundra

Here are a couple of really interesting podcasts, with Dr. Bryan Heiderscheit of UW Madison. He's the guy who's working with Watson and Stokes, and if you have a half hour to kill he'll explain a lot. The first link was from this past November, and the second one is 7 years old. Still interesting, but not as up to date as the first.

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts...t-sIfT_N8L2DG/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCq8BoxqLOQ&t=22s

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Heiderscheit is the lead researcher at UW for the study partly funded by the NFL. This release from the NFL a few years ago describes a bit about the design of the study:


https://www.nfl.com/playerhealthands...ng-on-hamstrin

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Originally Posted by red

holy shit dude

awesome info, exactly what i was asking about

thank you

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Glad to help. FWIW, a year ago I thought exactly the same thing about hamstrings, and then I suffered a Grade II strain playing basketball. I'm 66, so i wasn't healing as fast as I wanted, and started looking stuff up. I never dreamed there was so much to it.

Funny what I was about to post and you suffering a hammy injury playing basketball (age probably was a factor). I was about to say the sudden stop/start 100%/0% nature of football is conducive to hamstring injuries. If you follow the NBA, hamstring injuries are relatively rare. NBA players are in constant motion and don't generally do the same kind of sudden acceleration that NFL players do (WR/CB/RB mostly).

My personal theory is that players need to keep moving and keep muscles warmed up as best they can. Its not about stretching as much as it is about just keeping it "ready" or warm.

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

Funny what I was about to post and you suffering a hammy injury playing basketball (age probably was a factor). I was about to say the sudden stop/start 100%/0% nature of football is conducive to hamstring injuries. If you follow the NBA, hamstring injuries are relatively rare. NBA players are in constant motion and don't generally do the same kind of sudden acceleration that NFL players do (WR/CB/RB mostly).

My personal theory is that players need to keep moving and keep muscles warmed up as best they can. Its not about stretching as much as it is about just keeping it "ready" or warm.

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Yeah; I think the whole thing was on account of being born too long ago. Age is the top contributing factor for hamstrings, and in over 50 years of competitive sports - baseball, hockey, football, basketball - I never had a hamstring strain until now. Always been really a fanatic about stretching, because I have had tendonitis and similar issues in other joints because of my long frame (according to tyhe doctors).

It actually was initially a Grade I, but I live in rural Kentucky, and the physical therapist was a moron. She turned it into a Grade II (borderline Grade III) 5 minutes into the second session, so I guess you'd have to add incompetent health care to the list of contributing factors. Took 9 more months to recover.

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

Funny what I was about to post and you suffering a hammy injury playing basketball (age probably was a factor). I was about to say the sudden stop/start 100%/0% nature of football is conducive to hamstring injuries. If you follow the NBA, hamstring injuries are relatively rare. NBA players are in constant motion and don't generally do the same kind of sudden acceleration that NFL players do (WR/CB/RB mostly).

My personal theory is that players need to keep moving and keep muscles warmed up as best they can. Its not about stretching as much as it is about just keeping it "ready" or warm.

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I would guess fewer injuries in basketball because you never get up to a full speed.

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Originally Posted by sharpe1027

I would guess fewer injuries in basketball because you never get up to a full speed.

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That's why I was so surprised when I did this. Not a classic strain of the hamstring muscle, but rather the top of the hamstring tendon, where the muscle tapers into the tendon. It was more a hyperextension and twisting move at the same time, because I planted my foot, pivoted, and made a sudden change of direction and rapid acceleration in the same movement. Too much stress from too many directions at once for a muscle that age, I guess.

My wife (who's 44) occasionally expresses the opinion that I've played as much basketball in this lifetime as I need to play, and cites this incident as evidence. She's probably right, because I know I play way too aggressively. If I have to dial it back a notch, I have a hard time even enjoying myself. Next time it'll be a patellar tendon or an Achilles.

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Originally Posted by Frozen Tundra

That's why I was so surprised when I did this. Not a classic strain of the hamstring muscle, but rather the top of the hamstring tendon, where the muscle tapers into the tendon. It was more a hyperextension and twisting move at the same time, because I planted my foot, pivoted, and made a sudden change of direction and rapid acceleration in the same movement. Too much stress from too many directions at once for a muscle that age, I guess.

My wife (who's 44) occasionally expresses the opinion that I've played as much basketball in this lifetime as I need to play, and cites this incident as evidence. She's probably right, because I know I play way too aggressively. If I have to dial it back a notch, I have a hard time even enjoying myself. Next time it'll be a patellar tendon or an Achilles.

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Basketball is hard to play old, especially if you're not taller than everyone else.

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Originally Posted by red

holy shit dude

awesome info, exactly what i was asking about

thank you

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Red gives us this facade of being just a drunk redneck Packer fan, but in this post the mask slips and the truth is revealed: Red is a drunk redneck Packer fan with an advanced medical degree after double-majoring in chemistry and East Asian studies at Harvard. The only reason he didn’t know about the hamstrings is because he’s lost in the world of chemistry, and his spare time is spent reading Packerrats and translating Japanese poetry.

You blew your cover, Red.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Red gives us this facade of being just a drunk redneck Packer fan, but in this post the mask slips and the truth is revealed: Red is a drunk redneck Packer fan with an advanced medical degree after double-majoring in chemistry and East Asian studies at Harvard. The only reason he didn’t know about the hamstrings is because he’s lost in the world of chemistry, and his spare time is spent reading Packerrats and translating Japanese poetry.

You blew your cover, Red.

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lol

i failed chem 101 twice in college

and i complain about idiot rednecks at least 20 times a day

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

Funny what I was about to post and you suffering a hammy injury playing basketball (age probably was a factor). I was about to say the sudden stop/start 100%/0% nature of football is conducive to hamstring injuries. If you follow the NBA, hamstring injuries are relatively rare. NBA players are in constant motion and don't generally do the same kind of sudden acceleration that NFL players do (WR/CB/RB mostly).

My personal theory is that players need to keep moving and keep muscles warmed up as best they can. Its not about stretching as much as it is about just keeping it "ready" or warm.

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the problem with that (and it does sound good), is that the first article mentions that hamstrings are the most common injury in soccer, and you're almost always moving in soccer (not a lot of 0 to 100 to 0 movement) although a don't think there is anywhere close to as many injuries in soccer as there are in football, but still

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Originally Posted by red

the problem with that (and it does sound good), is that the first article mentions that hamstrings are the most common injury in soccer, and you're almost always moving in soccer (not a lot of 0 to 100 to 0 movement) although a don't think there is anywhere close to as many injuries in soccer as there are in football, but still

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I disagree. Strained vagina is the biggest injury in soccer...and even that is hard to put a number on because 90% of soccer injuries are faked.

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Originally Posted by bobblehead

I disagree. Strained vagina is the biggest injury in soccer...and even that is hard to put a number on because 90% of soccer injuries are faked.

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Annoying as the gamesmanship injuries are, every sport has it's warts. Football has just over 16 minutes of actual play spread out over 3-4 hours. Absent an extreme blowout, only the fourth quarter matters for NBA regular season games. Etc.

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Originally Posted by sharpe1027

Annoying as the gamesmanship injuries are, every sport has it's warts. Football has just over 16 minutes of actual play spread out over 3-4 hours. Absent an extreme blowout, only the fourth quarter matters for NBA regular season games. Etc.

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That's not just annoying; it's a mark of genius. You keep people locked in to commercial after commercial, thus maximizing your profits.

Your point is a fair one, but just for me, the stupid fake injuries are the most annoying of all. I can wait to tune in an NBA game until the fourth quarter, or mute the TV commercials for football while I go work on dinner or post on Packerrats, but the fake injuries and the terrible acting are inescapable.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

That's not just annoying; it's a mark of genius. You keep people locked in to commercial after commercial, thus maximizing your profits.

Your point is a fair one, but just for me, the stupid fake injuries are the most annoying of all. I can wait to tune in an NBA game until the fourth quarter, or mute the TV commercials for football while I go work on dinner or post on Packerrats, but the fake injuries and the terrible acting are inescapable.

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You just ignore the one dude laying on the ground.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

That's not just annoying; it's a mark of genius. You keep people locked in to commercial after commercial, thus maximizing your profits.

Your point is a fair one, but just for me, the stupid fake injuries are the most annoying of all. I can wait to tune in an NBA game until the fourth quarter, or mute the TV commercials for football while I go work on dinner or post on Packerrats, but the fake injuries and the terrible acting are inescapable.

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at least soccer doesn't cut to ads when the guy is faking the injury

i love soccer, but yes, the flopping sucks bad. they need to start carding assholes for that

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Originally Posted by red

at least soccer doesn't cut to ads when the guy is faking the injury

i love soccer, but yes, the flopping sucks bad. they need to start carding assholes for that

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Hard to implement. There are legit injuries. They just keep playing now if there's no foul, so their team plays a man down while they are on the ground. That's helped get them back up faster at least.