About Hundly not being ready

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12-09-2017, 10:53 PM
bobblehead

About Hundly not being ready

So I was thinking about the limited practice schedule teams have under the new collective bargaining agreement. How they have limited time to work with even a backup QB with the limited practices allowed etc.

Why wouldn't a draft and develop team like the Packers run a secondary practice, or a B squad practice so to speak. Why waste Hundly's time in the main practice watching Rodgers get all the snaps. Couldn't they run a parallel practice using whoever they could round up so that Hundly gets reps and knowledge at the same time. No violation of league rules as they wouldn't be having him participate in the "main" practice.

I understand they need bodies to run the opposition in both practices, but I would think they could figure out a way to make this work so backups can develop during the season.

Thoughts?
12-10-2017, 02:38 AM
MadScientist

If you have your starers going up against a scout team of non-starters, then you are using 44 players, leaving (including PS) 19 players, and that includes 2 kickers who won't be part of this. 17 players isin't enough for a full practice. And that's if everybody is healthy (Powerball has better odds). Also it really is just the backup QB that gets badly short changed. Other non-starters are rotated in various packages.

I will agree that something more needs to be done about getting the backup QB prepared, but a separate practice ins't feasible, unless they could make a virtual practice simulation for the backup to work with.
12-10-2017, 07:29 AM
Joemailman

I wonder if the reduced offseason time with QB's has made the Packers preference for grooming a young QB for backup unworkable. Would the Packers be better off with the "once a mediocre starter/now a backup" type when Rodgers go down?
12-10-2017, 07:36 AM
mraynrand

To me the fundamental problem is that you generally can't keep anyone decent enough to win you more games than you lose as a backup. If he's that good, he'll be gone, because - well, look at some of the starters in the league....

Plus there are some teams that are highly dependent on their starting QB's skills. Look at Seattle. If Wilson were out, they don't win a game.
12-10-2017, 08:10 AM
pbmax

If Flynn wasn't injured, he was probably the perfect intersection of reliable enough and not good enough to start.

There is a fundamental disagreement between player prep time and coaching time. Player time has decreased. Coaching time has not. So, like in college, coaches still devise new schemes but need to winnow down the decision making flowchart for QBs with less practice time. McVay is doing this with Goff in Los Angeles. They run the college get lined up early, read the D, coach calls in audible from sideline.

But if you have a franchise QB, or for the teams that are planning to get one any day now, they still have the New York phone book of an offense. Then the backup comes in and what do you know? The playbook has to change and be winnowed down.

Your choices are either draft Flynn, sign Kaepernick (run a dangerous version of a new offense) or Gary Danielson (veteran former starter who know one really wants to start anymore).
12-10-2017, 08:10 AM
Joemailman

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraynrand

To me the fundamental problem is that you generally can't keep anyone decent enough to win you more games than you lose as a backup. If he's that good, he'll be gone, because - well, look at some of the starters in the league....

Plus there are some teams that are highly dependent on their starting QB's skills. Look at Seattle. If Wilson were out, they don't win a game.

If the Packers win today, they will have gone 3-4 with Hundley as the starter. Is that about what we should expect? Matt Flynn was 2-2 as a starter in 2013.
12-10-2017, 08:52 AM
mraynrand

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbmax

If Flynn wasn't injured, he was probably the perfect intersection of reliable enough and not good enough to start.

There is a fundamental disagreement between player prep time and coaching time. Player time has decreased. Coaching time has not. So, like in college, coaches still devise new schemes but need to winnow down the decision making flowchart for QBs with less practice time. McVay is doing this with Goff in Los Angeles. They run the college get lined up early, read the D, coach calls in audible from sideline.

But if you have a franchise QB, or for the teams that are planning to get one any day now, they still have the New York phone book of an offense. Then the backup comes in and what do you know? The playbook has to change and be winnowed down.

Your choices are either draft Flynn, sign Kaepernick (run a dangerous version of a new offense) or Gary Danielson (veteran former starter who know one really wants to start anymore).

I loved Shaun Hill. I thought that guy had a lot of moxie for a guy off the bench. I think he's the prototypical back-up QB. But he's a career .500 QB - and Joe is right, even for the really good teams, .500 for your backup is nominal!
12-10-2017, 08:58 AM
pbmax

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraynrand

I loved Shaun Hill. I thought that guy had a lot of moxie for a guy off the bench. I think he's the prototypical back-up QB. But he's a career .500 QB - and Joe is right, even for the really good teams, .500 for your backup is nominal!

He might be an even better choice than Flynn.
12-10-2017, 09:00 AM
pbmax

The reality is that you probably should just collect the best talent and forget the vets. Danielson was supposed to start for a year or two to give Kosar time to learn.

But Kosar was smarter than the coaches and Danielson was hurt before the quarter pole of his first season with the Browns.

From a talent acquisition standpoint I will agree with Patler here: players are going to be fungible to the team whether the team likes it or not.
12-10-2017, 09:01 AM
pbmax

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraynrand

I loved Shaun Hill. I thought that guy had a lot of moxie for a guy off the bench. I think he's the prototypical back-up QB. But he's a career .500 QB - and Joe is right, even for the really good teams, .500 for your backup is nominal!

Brian Hoyer?
12-10-2017, 09:28 AM
Pugger

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobblehead

So I was thinking about the limited practice schedule teams have under the new collective bargaining agreement. How they have limited time to work with even a backup QB with the limited practices allowed etc.

Why wouldn't a draft and develop team like the Packers run a secondary practice, or a B squad practice so to speak. Why waste Hundly's time in the main practice watching Rodgers get all the snaps. Couldn't they run a parallel practice using whoever they could round up so that Hundly gets reps and knowledge at the same time. No violation of league rules as they wouldn't be having him participate in the "main" practice.

I understand they need bodies to run the opposition in both practices, but I would think they could figure out a way to make this work so backups can develop during the season.

Thoughts?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we don't practice Monday thru Saturday so they only really practice on Wednesday, Thursday and perhaps on Saturday (is this limited by the CBA?) and these practices are only a few hours long so I'm gonna guess that coaches don't have a lot of time to devote to developing younger players during the regular season and I don't think they practice in pads much before TC in the offseason.
12-10-2017, 09:32 AM
Pugger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joemailman

If the Packers win today, they will have gone 3-4 with Hundley as the starter. Is that about what we should expect? Matt Flynn was 2-2 as a starter in 2013.

If we win today it will be because the 3 teams we beat were pretty dreadful to begin with. If we had a guy like Flynn instead of Hundley this year I wonder if we would have won that game in Pitt? The only reason Flynn was 2-2 in 2013 was because he wasn't there right away.
12-10-2017, 09:50 AM
mraynrand

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugger

If we win today it will be because the 3 teams we beat were pretty dreadful to begin with. If we had a guy like Flynn instead of Hundley this year I wonder if we would have won that game in Pitt? The only reason Flynn was 2-2 in 2013 was because he wasn't there right away.

I think Flynn lost his games vs. Pittsburgh, much in the same way. You get to .500 mostly by beating bad teams and losing to good.
12-10-2017, 10:59 AM
pbmax

They practice Tues/Wed/Thurs, take off Friday and practice Saturday which is specially designed cardio practice.

The CBA limits how many practices during the season can be in pads I believe.
12-10-2017, 11:31 AM
HarveyWallbangers

HundlEy
12-10-2017, 12:01 PM
George Cumby

How many starting quality quarterbacks are there in the league? 16-20? It’s not a huge surprise that we don’t have a future pro bowler on the bench.
12-10-2017, 02:35 PM
Teamcheez1

Hundley will never amount to anything. He is a swing and a miss. That's the way it works sometimes.
12-10-2017, 03:41 PM
denverYooper

Quote:

Originally Posted by mraynrand

I think Flynn lost his games vs. Pittsburgh, much in the same way. You get to .500 mostly by beating bad teams and losing to good.

Pretty much all you can ask of a quality backup.

Hundley is now 3-4 as a starter.
12-10-2017, 03:44 PM
George Cumby

Huntley PR today 111.2
12-10-2017, 03:45 PM
Joemailman

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbmax

They practice Tues/Wed/Thurs, take off Friday and practice Saturday which is specially designed cardio practice.

The CBA limits how many practices during the season can be in pads I believe.

Isn't Tuesday everybody's day off?
12-10-2017, 04:16 PM
esoxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Cumby

How many starting quality quarterbacks are there in the league? 16-20? It’s not a huge surprise that we don’t have a future pro bowler on the bench.

Man up, Sally