More Banjo: Pussies of Detroit, Game 2

Love’s last pass of the game left a bad taste in my mouth. Speed fiend and metrosexual, Christine Watson, had beaten his man for a potential bomb-6. Love failed to set his feet and underthrew Watson by a mile. Love, by all appearances, ain’t a noodle arm. He has got to make the fucking throw!

I wanted a dominating victory! I wanted to annihilate the Pussies for ending Butte’s Packer career!

But Tex’s two favorite teams won, he’s in relatively good health, and he’s surrounded by that shit that the Fast and the Furious folks dig, family, so life must be grand, eh?

Btw: The ugly Irish of a punter has gotta be the best punter to don the Green and Mustard Yellow since Jon Ryan. Downed a tons of punts inside the 20.

You beat me by 2 minutes.

Jordan Love - 22-32, 268 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 125.5 passer rating, 90.5 QBR

Christian Watson - 5 catches, 94 yards, 1 TD

Malik Heath - 4 catches, 43 yards on only 11 snaps!

Rashan Gary - 7 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 fumble recovery

Jonathan Owens - 12 tackles, 1 TFL, fumble recovery for a TD.

Daniel Whelan - 4 punts inside 20.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joemailman

You beat me by 2 minutes.

Jordan Love - 22-32, 268 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 125.5 passer rating, 90.5 QBR

Christian Watson - 5 catches, 94 yards, 1 TD

Malik Heath - 4 catches, 43 yards on only 11 snaps!

Rashan Gary - 7 tackles, 3 sacks, 1 fumble recovery

Jonathan Owens - 12 tackles, 1 TFL, fumble recovery for a TD.

Daniel Whelan - 4 punts inside 20.

---

I’d rather you start the Banjo thread, but I’m eating lunch by myself at a Golden Corral, and was bored as hell. I am opting not to spend Thanksgiving with that Fast and Furious shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anti-Polar Bear

I’d rather you start the Banjo thread, but I’m eating lunch by myself at a Golden Corral, and was bored as hell. I am opting not to spend Thanksgiving with that Fast and Furious shit.

---

I was at a Thanksgiving dinner with about a dozen Bears fans with only my phone when I would normally be doing The Banjo thread. I'll try to avoid that in the future.

Why we should have known Packers would win.

Quote:

---

Jay Cuda
@JayCuda
i have bad news for the lions :(



since the afl/nfl merger, they are 0-12 (.000) on thanksgiving when the moon is in a waxing gibbous phase. tomorrow is a waxing gibbous

---

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_kRg9AX...pg&name=medium

2:57 PM - Nov. 22, 2023

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joemailman

Why we should have known Packers would win.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_kRg9AX...pg&name=medium

2:57 PM - Nov. 22, 2023

---

Who the heck has time to research shit like this ? :razz:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparkey

Who the heck has time to research shit like this ? :razz:

---

welcome to AI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anti-Polar Bear

Love’s last pass of the game left a bad taste in my mouth. Speed fiend and metrosexual, Christine Watson, had beaten his man for a potential bomb-6. Love failed to set his feet and underthrew Watson by a mile. Love, by all appearances, ain’t a noodle arm. He has got to make the fucking throw!

I wanted a dominating victory! I wanted to annihilate the Pussies for ending Butte’s Packer career!

But Tex’s two favorite teams won, he’s in relatively good health, and he’s surrounded by that shit that the Fast and the Furious folks dig, family, so life must be grand, eh?

Btw: The ugly Irish of a punter has gotta be the best punter to don the Green and Mustard Yellow since Jon Ryan. Downed a tons of punts inside the 20.

---

Ya'all's dueling banjos bring to mind Deliverance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFutge4xn3w

Yeah, thanks for noticing - a tremendous day for me and mine.

Love was backpedaling on that last throw. No doubt, Rodgers or Favre woulda had the arm to get it there. I don't really think he had the luxury of setting his feet on that one. The Love to Watson combination is gonna do great things for a long time to come.

Top and bottom PFF Grades

Top 5 offense

1. WR Malik Heath: 94.5
2. WR Christian Watson: 87.7
3. QB Jordan Love: 86.6
4. WR Jayden Reed: 73.9
5. LT Yosh Nijman: 70.0

Heath caught all four of his targets and made three contested catches despite running only five (!) routes. He averaged over nine yards per route run. Watson made three contested catches and averaged over three yards per route run. Love dominated off play-action and from clean pockets, made two big-time throws and didn’t have a turnover-worthy play. Reed created three first downs or touchdowns and finished with 50 total yards and a score on six touches. Nijman gave up two pressures but was the team’s highest-graded offensive lineman in the run game.


Top 5 defense

1. OLB Rashan Gary: 91.9
2. DL Karl Brooks: 91.5
3. S Jonathan Owens: 71.3
4. OLB Kingsley Enagbare: 71.2
5. DL Kenny Clark: 71.1

Gary produced four pressures (three sacks), two forced fumbles and four stops over 43 snaps. Brooks had five pressures, one stop and one forced fumble over 31 snaps. Owens played all 84 defensive snaps, producing 12 total tackles with just one miss, a team-high five stops and a defensive touchdown. Enagbare delivered a team-high three quarterback hits and finished with four pressures and two stops. Clark had a team-high eight pressures, including seven hurries. He has 14 pressures the last two weeks.


Bottom 5 offense

1. RG Jon Runyan Jr.: 46.7
2. RB Patrick Taylor; 52.7
3. TE Tucker Kraft: 54.6
4. LG Elgton Jenkins: 57.3
5. WR Romeo Doubs: 57.3

Runyan gave up an immediate pressure, was penalized for a false start and received poor grades in the run game. Taylor gave up two pressures, including a hit, as a pass protector. Kraft caught a touchdown pass but finished with only 15 receiving yards on 29 routes run. Jenkins allowed two pressures and got dinged for a holding penalty. Doubs made a tough contested catch but also had a terrible drop on third down and finished with only 37 receiving yards on 29 routes run.


Bottom 5 defense

1. CB Corey Ballentine: 42.7
2. S Anthony Johnson Jr.: 42.8
3. DL T.J. Slaton: 43.7
4. LB Isaiah McDuffie: 52.0
5. LB Quay Walker: 55.6

Ballentine missed three tackles and gave up nine catches for 171 receiving yards. Jared Goff had a 149.1 passer rating when targeting him. Johnson missed four tackles. Slaton had one run stop but also a missed tackle. McDuffie had two stops but also a missed tackle, a penalty and two completions allowed into his coverage. Walker broke up a pass and delivered two stops but also had a bad pass interference penalty.

Some of my initial quick takes. Walker is a good pass blocker, but his run blocking is awful. Nijman is a much better run blocker, but he has 1-2 really bad pass block snaps a game.
edit: I think its time to make the move. Put Tom at C or RG and start both the rotating tackles. Yosh on the Left side so at least you have your 3 run blockers together from C to LT.

Love hit 8 different guys with Wicks, Jones and Musgrave out. Holy shit, thats some quality work.

Gary and Clark were able to pin the ears back and whatup. Poor Goff felt like Santa Claus of the hood with two very large black kids in his lap all afternoon.

Is Valentine for real? I mean, how did this guy last until the 7th round?

Owens was allowed to play in the box more and was better. He is truly a one dimensional safety. I'd really like to get at least Ford back as he was having a nice little season.

I predicted Kraft would break the 3rd round curse shortly after the draft. Being forced into action he is serviceable for a rookie TE. As he improves I feel confident he will prove me right on that one. He is like the fat chic at bar time still hanging around. A slump buster in a time of need. Maybe not your first choice, but the slump still gets broken.

What happened to Runyan. He has dramatically regressed. Send him to play with Hackett. Or maybe its that Adam fella. He seems really confident and often wrong. Thats a dangerous combination. Adam reminds me of Hoodie Jr. He has had some really good mentoring, but if you aren't smart enough to learn the lesson being taught.....


Thats it for now. Maybe more strikes me later.

Karl freaking Brooks has been such a pleasant surprise. Too bad Davonte Wyatt can’t do his part too.

True, but Wyatt was better the last game. They say it takes a while for D Linemen to get it all together. You would think coming from Georgia that wouldn't be so much of a factor. He also seems to have been playing hurt. I think he will come around at some point. The fact that he has been outperformed by Brooks and probably Wooden too says more about how good they are playing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker

Ya'all's dueling banjos bring to mind Deliverance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFutge4xn3w

Yeah, thanks for noticing - a tremendous day for me and mine.

Love was backpedaling on that last throw. No doubt, Rodgers or Favre woulda had the arm to get it there. I don't really think he had the luxury of setting his feet on that one. The Love to Watson combination is gonna do great things for a long time to come.

---

On the QB School, JT O’Sullivan (former Favor backup) explains that Love had more than enough time to set his feet, although he woulda been pounded by a Pussy Yokozuna immediately after the throw - thanks to the incompetence blocking of Josh Myers.

I guess Love not taking an unnecessary hit in garbage time is a good thing. Still, I woulda loved to see Love make the “dagger” throw.

I’m with Bobble, Myers and Runyan need to be benched. Tom looks like a midget at tackle. And, as a wise man one wrote, in a predominantly Black and somewhat white realm, it’s alway soothing to witness a dash of yellow (and brown) in the rye. Runyan sucks. Lets see what the Asian guard is all about.

Steno and/or MLF definitely are inclined to go with veterans on offensive line. But to me, the fact that Rhyan is getting snaps seems to indicate they at least know Runyan won't be here next year. They want to have an idea of what they have in Rhyan going into the offseason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joemailman

Steno and/or MLF definitely are inclined to go with veterans on offensive line. But to me, the fact that Rhyan is getting snaps seems to indicate they at least know Runyan won't be here next year. They want to have an idea of what they have in Rhyan going into the offseason.

---

They absolutely should figure out what they have locked onto the roster next offseason. If Rhyan is any good, you have less pressure to draft an IOL early (or at all).
I think at this point most fans would like to see them try Rhyan, I suspect his pass blocking isn't where it needs to be, but Runyan isn't getting it done either. I have to think it's either something off-field or an injury or the OL coaching that has caused such a regression for him. He was decent his first 2 years. Newman's rookie season also wasn't the trashfire he's turned into either, which is what makes me worry about the coaching.


I know I'm nitpicking, but the opening play bomb to Watson was underthrown by about 8-10 yards. If Love throws that farther and with less air and Watson doesn't have to slow down. Watson had the CB and S beat by 2 yards and if hit in stride jogs into the end zone.

Love threw that 60 yards in the air. Most big arm quarterbacks (Favre, Rodgers level) can throw about 65 yards in a game setting. Love wasn’t able set all the way up so he didn’t get the full 65, but he does have that level of arm imo. I don’t know if his arm is as big as Favre or Rodgers when he’s not all the way set, but he has the big time nfl arm.

That said, he launched it 60 yards off a less than ideal platform.

He shouldn’t have doubt hitched the throw. If he had thrown it off his first hitch, Watson would have gotten there.



All in all, that was a really good deep ball that gave his guy a great chance. No one hits that perfectly more than 20% of the time.

I play all the time with our little guy who loves catching the ball. The further down the field you go, the less likely it’s a perfect strike in the bucket.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RashanGary

Karl freaking Brooks has been such a pleasant surprise. Too bad Davonte Wyatt can’t do his part too.

---

I think Wyatt has been pretty good when on the field. He is another guy the coaches seem more down on than reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anti-Polar Bear

On the QB School, JT O’Sullivan (former Favor backup) explains that Love had more than enough time to set his feet, although he woulda been pounded by a Pussy Yokozuna immediately after the throw - thanks to the incompetence blocking of Josh Myers.

I guess Love not taking an unnecessary hit in garbage time is a good thing. Still, I woulda loved to see Love make the “dagger” throw.

I’m with Bobble, Myers and Runyan need to be benched. Tom looks like a midget at tackle. And, as a wise man one wrote, in a predominantly Black and somewhat white realm, it’s alway soothing to witness a dash of yellow (and brown) in the rye. Runyan sucks. Lets see what the Asian guard is all about.

---

Uh, I think in today's NFL, most Guards are bigger than most O Tackles.

I still have a fairly high opinion of both Myers and Runyan going forward, but more than that, I don't see those "yokozumas"/O Line in general making all that much difference in the pass game with a mobile QB. That's how it was with Rodgers, and that's how it is now with Love. I always said, Rodgers was rushed horribly on about 95% of pass plays, and he had a pretty decent career. Ditto that on the pass rush on Love. In the run game, it still seems like most of the success is up the middle/inside zone - often over Myers and Runyan. I'd suggest the reason there hasn't been as much success is less reps for a healthy Aaron Jones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker

I think in today's NFL, most Guards are bigger than most O Tackles.

---

This reminded me that the Packers have a GIANT tackle that:

- wouldn't last on the practice squad the last couple years without being signed elsewhere immediately (yes, that almost happened)
- is an inactive player every week
- occupies a roster spot on the 53
- 24 years old, six foot nine 370lbs (per packers.com)

If your running game is struggling, maybe activate & sub this fucking guy in at either guard or tackle for a few select snaps per game. Or hell, declare him eligible at TE for an extra-jumbo package in an obvious run situation. I mean if the pack is gonna go all "youth, rookie, unconventional, see what we have" why not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bobblehead

I think Wyatt has been pretty good when on the field. He is another guy the coaches seem more down on than reasonable.

---

I hope you are correct but I’m not seeing it. Wyatt has been pretty invisible, to me.

Quote:

---

Uh, I think in today's NFL, most Guards are bigger than most O Tackles.

---

You got it backwards. most guards might be heavier, but they aren't bigger in terms or height or arm length.
Even if you look at GB's roster, the OT's are on average both taller and heavier.

GB's guards on the roster are listed at 321, 311, 310 and 307 (Rhyan, Jenkins, Newman and Runyan Jr. respectively)
GB's tackles are listed at 370, 324, 314, and 304 (Jones, Walker, Njiman, Tom) Bakhtiari is 310.

I'll stop there, your OL expertise has been well debunked previously.

Aaron Jones was averaging over 5ypc across his entire career and never averaged less than 4.6 until this year, where he's averaging 3.7 ypc on 66 attempts. That's...not good. I agree injuries have impacted his efficiency, but I'd say the OL's poor run blocking has impacted it more. Dillon's ypc is down as well (averaged 4.1 last year, averaging 3.4 this year). If all your backs are struggling, you have to look at the run blocking. 2/5 of that is Runyan and Myers, who are not grading out well by analytics.

Some people prefer the big road grading types. They are fun to watch and great if you run a lot of power, but those guys are also often slower footed and can be liabilities in pass pro. GB has preferred lighter players who are agile enough to zone block or do a certain amount of pin and pull. They also prioritize players who are good pass blockers, if they can't run block they try to coach them up (see: Walker, Rasheed). The theory being that pass pro is more important for keeping your franchise QB upright and getting explosive plays down the field.
If you don't like the type of OL that GB does, you'll be constantly frustrated by the blocking and scheme GB uses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker

Uh, I think in today's NFL, most Guards are bigger than most O Tackles.

---

As usual when you start with "I think" you would be wrong. Anyone with time can look it up. Tackles average an inch and a half taller and 1 pound heavier. I would argue the weight is much more than that as teams don't usually change the listings from the combine, but most tackles add weight to their larger frame. Bak is still listed at 310, but plays at around 330 if I'm guessing.

Congrats, bobblehead, you've sunk to the level of those whiny piss ant truth squaders. I guess I shoulda said about as heavy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker

Congrats, bobblehead, you've sunk to the level of those whiny piss ant truth squaders. I guess I shoulda said about as heavy.

---

Despite the so called facts proving you wrong, I still see what you said as being correct in a practical sense. Tackles are 1.5” taller and have longer arms, but outside of a negligible pound, they’re the same weight as guards. Guards are shorter and just as heavy. Functionally, that’s a bigger guy. Stalkier, more stout, less athletic, stronger.

Quote:

---

Aaron Nagler
@AaronNagler
NFL announces that the game between the Packers and Lions averaged 33.7 million viewers, the most-watched early Thanksgiving Day game on record. That's a lot of people who will remember never seeing Jordan Love with a turkey leg.

---

Never forget the turducken snub.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker

Congrats, bobblehead, you've sunk to the level of those whiny piss ant truth squaders. I guess I shoulda said about as heavy.

---

yea, me and that clown Patler with our facts. Annoying when you are wrong all the time, but kinda neat if you want the truth. Next time instead of making me show you how wrong you are why don't you just check before blurting out whatever comes to your feeble old mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RashanGary

Despite the so called facts proving you wrong, I still see what you said as being correct in a practical sense. Tackles are 1.5” taller and have longer arms, but outside of a negligible pound, they’re the same weight as guards. Guards are shorter and just as heavy. Functionally, that’s a bigger guy. Stalkier, more stout, less athletic, stronger.

---

But that also simply isn't true. Again, guards usually weigh in around 315 in reality once they get a year or 2 in the league, while tackles, with longer frames generally tip in around 330 I'd bet. Since the NFL doesn't update these numbers its impossible to say exactly. But honestly, just look at any OL and the Tackles are clearly bigger men. They make better guards because they have a lower center and play with more leverage. Tackles have to be longer on the edge to engage a pass rusher. Generally if they aren't heavy enough a bull rush knocks them on their ass. Tackles are simply bigger, longer stronger and more athletic. Thats just a fact no matter how much you guys don't want it to be. Sometimes they have trouble playing G because DTs are short and play with immense leverage and will push the longer guys back into the QBs lap. Sometimes they can be great at both (Jenkins). Usually those guys end up tackles. I am very surprised Jenkins isn't manning the LT position, but I think after he wasn't fully recovered (or has issues on the right side) and played poorly at RT they decided to stop moving him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Joemailman

Never forget the turducken snub.

---

Incredibly disappointing and you could tell he was excited about it.