OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

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Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi

Especially since there's been a sportswriter or two that have called Starr the best QB in NFL history.

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I don't know, he played with such talent in an era when teams could amass a dominant roster. What is your list?

I put Favre at top of list because of his combo of physical talent and accomplishments.


Sounds like Herber is only guy who was clearly dominant at QB position in his era, so he had to be up there.

Rodgers ahead of Starr is speculation.

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Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi

Vince already posted on Isbell in the Legends thread here: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php...l=1#post533076

Here's a video of both Isbell and Herber in action:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNiPY-hbPvQ

[CHECK OUT THE AFTER-TOUCHDOWN HANDSHAKE IN THE ENDZONE. I've seen Packers' WR's shake hands like that in games this year. Could the handshake be our guys' nod to old timers like Isbell, Laws and Hutson? AND HOW ABOUT THOSE GOAL POSTS!]

And here are some pictures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxlXfN-qPKE

And a really good article comparing Isbell with his more famous counterparts, Sid Luckman and Sammy Baugh: http://www.profootballresearchers.or...27-06-1104.pdf




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cil_Isbell.jpg

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What's with all the throwing off the back foot? And why are milk men acting as referees?

As for the list...CHFF did a list a couple years ago, I think, and Bart Starr (based on their formula) was the greatest NFL quarterback...in all NFL history. Not just for the Packers. So, for me, watching Starr as I grew up (admittedly toward the end of his career), here is my list:

1. Bart Starr
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Brent Favre
4. Cecil Isbell (just because I saw Maxie's video)
5. Lynn Dickey

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Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby

I don't know, he played with such talent in an era when teams could amass a dominant roster. What is your list?

I put Favre at top of list because of his combo of physical talent and accomplishments.


Sounds like Herber is only guy who was clearly dominant at QB position in his era, so he had to be up there.

Rodgers ahead of Starr is speculation.

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Comparing old guys to modern guys is good conversation, but there's really no meaningful metric to do it. The game and the players have changed too much. Was Jerry Rice better than Don Hutson? Dan Marino better than Cecil Isbell? It's like comparing a modern day Ferrari to a Duesenberg.

In their day Herber and Isbell were elite talents. Lambeau called Herber the best long passer ever and he called Isbell the best passer of the two. Go figure. Isbell was an outstanding runner; Herber was a dud. Herber was the better punter. A good part of their fame was the fact that they were pioneers of an evolving game. Hutson too.

Of the modern guys on your list, I'd rank them:

1 Bart Starr
2 Aaron Rodgers
3 Brett Favre
4 Lynn Dickey
5 Tobin Rote
5 Don Majkowski

I put Starr on top simply because he was far and away the best field general in football in an era when the QB called his own plays. Sure, he was surrounded by talent, but so was Favre and Dickey (at least on offense). Plus, Starr took care of the ball like Rodgers does, which I highly value. Starr was irritating to watch they way he took sacks, but he also stood in there and took the hits. Very brave man.

Rodgers? What can I say that we don't all know. He is like Bart Starr on steroids.

Favre? I've often said he's the most exciting player I've ever seen, but not the best QB. I've seen him throw too many times into triple coverage when the game was on the line. When he was on, he was exciting.

Dickey was a great passer, as you say. But he had problems turning the ball over as well.

Tobin Rote and Don Majkowski were similar types. They were good runners, good passers and gave hope to the Packer faithful in lean times.

As far as Starr's standing among all QB's in his era, I'd take him over Unitas. Johnny was a better passer by far, but Starr was cool and consistent in the clutch, which was his hallmark.

Bart Starr must have sold a lot of cars at that dealership of his. The used car salesman certainly has you two fooled.

Only kidding! I have no problem with Starr at top of list, I really don't know. I did see him play at end of his career. Looks like Maxie waited until Fritz posted, he cribbed from his list.

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Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby

Bart Starr must have sold a lot of cars at that dealership of his. The used car salesman certainly has you two fooled.

Only kidding! I have no problem with Starr at top of list, I really don't know. I did see him play at end of his career. Looks like Maxie waited until Fritz posted, he cribbed from his list.

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I resemble that remark!!

Actually, it's interesting how close our lists are. I was actually posting my list when I saw Fritz had posted one. I think they're similar because we both have terrific powers of football game observation. :-)

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Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi

I resemble that remark!!

Actually, it's interesting how close our lists are. I was actually posting my list when I saw Fritz had posted one. I think they're similar because we both have terrific powers of football game observation. :-)

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Damn straight!

And I have fond memories of Dickey - the only ray of hope was that one playoff team. The dude could throw a football. But he was a statue in the pocket, and he did throw his share of picks.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Damn straight!

And I have fond memories of Dickey - the only ray of hope was that one playoff team. The dude could throw a football. But he was a statue in the pocket, and he did throw his share of picks.

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It would be interesting if we could go back and give Dickey a decent defense. Maybe he would have been truly successful.

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Originally Posted by Pugger

It would be interesting if we could go back and give Dickey a decent defense. Maybe he would have been truly successful.

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My fondest memory of Lynn Dickey comes from 1990s when he was back for some honor, maybe 92 when he got put in hall. The camera cut to him in a sky box during game. He was just shoveling food in his face. It was funny at time, never seen him since.

He should go to the game at the Superdome and sit with the Execs up in the Suite. We get a shot of Ted and Brett talking with no sound. Make up conversation bubble for it the rest of the week.

Win - win.

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Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby

My fondest memory of Lynn Dickey comes from 1990s when he was back for some honor, maybe 92 when he got put in hall. The camera cut to him in a sky box during game. He was just shoveling food in his face. It was funny at time, never seen him since.

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He has returned numerous times to Lambeau along with other alumni for a home game.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Damn straight!

And I have fond memories of Dick - the only ray of hope was that one playoff team. The dude could throw a football. But he was a statue in the pocket, and he did throw his share of picks.

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FTFY.

I keed, I keed!

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Originally Posted by Fritz

Damn straight!

And I have fond memories of Dickey - the only ray of hope was that one playoff team. The dude could throw a football. But he was a statue in the pocket, and he did throw his share of picks.

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Seriously, I'm with you. Those were some hard years but who can forget the Monday Night Shootout with the Champion Redskins.

His numbers, when you look them up, aren't that great. From '76 - '85 he averaged usually around fifteen or so picks per season, not including two years - 1980 and '83 - when he threw 25 and 29 picks. And he actually averaged approximately the same number of TD's as picks.

But from '80 - '84 he threw for lots and lots of yards, and I think the game was different then, anyway. He had a completion rate in the mid-50's for lots of those years, which doesn't sound that great today, but I think D-backs were still doing a lot of grabbing and banging, and of course they had almost no concept of an "illegal hit."

I just loved the guy. He stood in the pocket even though he got hammered. He got sacked forty times in 1981 and again in 1983. Wow.

He couldn't move in the pocket, but in some ways he was like Brent Favre - he was a gunslinger on a team that needed that, cuz there weren't no defense to speak of for most of the years he played.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

His numbers, when you look them up, aren't that great. From '76 - '85 he averaged usually around fifteen or so picks per season, not including two years - 1980 and '83 - when he threw 25 and 29 picks. And he actually averaged approximately the same number of TD's as picks.

But from '80 - '84 he threw for lots and lots of yards, and I think the game was different then, anyway. He had a completion rate in the mid-50's for lots of those years, which doesn't sound that great today, but I think D-backs were still doing a lot of grabbing and banging, and of course they had almost no concept of an "illegal hit."

I just loved the guy. He stood in the pocket even though he got hammered. He got sacked forty times in 1981 and again in 1983. Wow.

He couldn't move in the pocket, but in some ways he was like Brent Favre - he was a gunslinger on a team that needed that, cuz there weren't no defense to speak of for most of the years he played.

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Yup, unfortunately for Lynn he had to practically do it all himself. We didn't have much of a running game and our defense was a sieve so he almost HAD to put it up on every snap just to keep the team in the game.

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Originally Posted by Fritz

He had a completion rate in the mid-50's for lots of those years, which doesn't sound that great today, but I think D-backs were still doing a lot of grabbing and banging, and of course they had almost no concept of an "illegal hit."

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I think the lower completion rate was due to the fact that he didn't play the West Coast offense. Most of his throws were downfield. I think they had John Jefferson, James Lofton and Paul Coffman at the time. If Rodgers relied on his downfield completion percentage alone, it'd be the same for him.

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Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi

I think the lower completion rate was due to the fact that he didn't play the West Coast offense. Most of his throws were downfield. I think they had John Jefferson, James Lofton and Paul Coffman at the time. If Rodgers relied on his downfield completion percentage alone, it'd be the same for him.

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I was thrilled when they traded for Jefferson. I still think that trio is one of the best in all of Packer history. Lofton was just a gazelle; he was beautiful to watch. Jefferson was not quite what he was in San Diego (I think that's where he was), but he was still awfully good. And Coffman - he had really good hands, and he knew how to get open.

I'd like to have any one of three right now...especially Coffman.

Nice feature article by Bedard, err, Dunne:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...281524621.html

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Originally Posted by Tyrion Lannister

Nice feature article by Bedard, err, Dunne:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...281524621.html

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I was searching for a thread and discovered this great article.

Not one Packerats commented on it's quality. Made any comment at all.

WOW....just wow ! What a shame.




Thanks Tyrion Lannister. It's late and I have to come back to it. It's long and I havn't gotten to the video portions. It certainly appears as if Brett Favre is doing well. That's some shack and estate he lives on.

Later......

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Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi

Comparing old guys to modern guys is good conversation, but there's really no meaningful metric to do it. The game and the players have changed too much. Was Jerry Rice better than Don Hutson? Dan Marino better than Cecil Isbell? It's like comparing a modern day Ferrari to a Duesenberg.

In their day Herber and Isbell were elite talents. Lambeau called Herber the best long passer ever and he called Isbell the best passer of the two. Go figure. Isbell was an outstanding runner; Herber was a dud. Herber was the better punter. A good part of their fame was the fact that they were pioneers of an evolving game. Hutson too.

Of the modern guys on your list, I'd rank them:

1 Bart Starr
2 Aaron Rodgers
3 Brett Favre
4 Lynn Dickey
5 Tobin Rote
5 Don Majkowski

I put Starr on top simply because he was far and away the best field general in football in an era when the QB called his own plays. Sure, he was surrounded by talent, but so was Favre and Dickey (at least on offense). Plus, Starr took care of the ball like Rodgers does, which I highly value. Starr was irritating to watch they way he took sacks, but he also stood in there and took the hits. Very brave man.

Rodgers? What can I say that we don't all know. He is like Bart Starr on steroids.

Favre? I've often said he's the most exciting player I've ever seen, but not the best QB. I've seen him throw too many times into triple coverage when the game was on the line. When he was on, he was exciting.

Dickey was a great passer, as you say. But he had problems turning the ball over as well.

Tobin Rote and Don Majkowski were similar types. They were good runners, good passers and gave hope to the Packer faithful in lean times.

As far as Starr's standing among all QB's in his era, I'd take him over Unitas. Johnny was a better passer by far, but Starr was cool and consistent in the clutch, which was his hallmark.

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:-)