Champ or Wood?

Bye week sucks. There's not much Packers stuff to chat about.

As y'all know, Champ Bailey just announced his retirement, so alas, he won't be playing for the Pack anytime soon.

In their primes, who would you rather have, Bailey or Woodson? (I was gonna start a poll, but dunno how.)

They were drafted a year apart so they're comparable foes like Tiger and Phil. I'm sensing a lot of Packers bias, but Wood clearly has the better numbers.

Champ, from what I've read, had a great work ethic throughout his glorious career. Wood, as a young un, would party all night and slept through meetings. Bailey was faster. Both were shutdown corners who were not afraid to tackle, so unlike Neon Deion. Both will probably be immortalized as a bronze head in some Ohio room one day.

Obviously, Wood has a ring. :-)

Stats:

Woodson - 58 picks, 32 forced fumbles, 1063 tackles, 13 TDs in 229 (and counting) games.

Bailey - 52 picks, 9 forced fumbles, 909 tackes, 5 TDs in 215 games.

I think Champ was a more pure cover corner who could take a #1 WR out of the game. Wood was a gambler who could make a QB see something that wasn't there. Problem is, sometimes it was! Champ kept his speed, so he lasted longer at corner where Wood was moved to his hybrid role with the Pack, and is now a safety with the Raiders. Both were very durable over the course of their careers. Other than maybe the start of Woodson's career, both pretty good character guys.

Which would I want? I don't think there's really an answer to that. Which perennial pro-bowler/future HOFer CB do you want? Is there a wrong answer?

DEF a toss up!

both are Good cats too....

...hmm..GO BIG TEN!!

At their best, I think Woodson had a greater impact in the games he played. Bailey was a good enough cover guy to take his receiver out of the game, making it essentially 10 on 10. An offense could mostly just forget about both Bailey and the receiver he was covering. For pure cover corners, that is the case. They create a deadspot on the field for the offense. Players like Woodson impact the entire defense. They can't be ignored because they can show up anywhere. It is more difficult to deal with a defender like that.

Throw in all the turnovers he created with forced fumbles, and the games he turned around with TDs on returns, and I would go with Woodson, just because he was so dynamic.

I'd go Woodson as well. Much better in run support and blitzing.

Blitzing - another good point.

Bailey - 3 sacks
Woodson - 19 sacks.

Woodson has played a few more games, but I think the stats show a clear superiority in overall impact in the games he played.
Woodson is:

+16 in sacks
+23 in forced fumbles
+6 in interceptions
+8 in touchdowns
+154 tackles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patler

Blitzing - another good point.

Bailey - 3 sacks
Woodson - 19 sacks.

Woodson has played a few more games, but I think the stats show a clear superiority in overall impact in the games he played.
Woodson is:

+16 in sacks
+23 in forced fumbles
+6 in interceptions
+8 in touchdowns
+154 tackles

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Leave it to Patler to come back with numbers :roll: When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football! /Madden :-)

Seriously, despite playing the same position in the same era, they were quite different players. Wood did have more impact all over the field, but Bailey didn't just make it 10 on 10, he made it 10 on 10 with the offense not having their #1WR, not the same thing. That ability to take out a #1WR is why Deon was, and Revis is, the highest paid CBs in the league.

Thing is, I mostly agree with you, I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here because I think you can't discount Bailey.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guiness

Leave it to Patler to come back with numbers :roll: When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football! /Madden :-)

Seriously, despite playing the same position in the same era, they were quite different players. Wood did have more impact all over the field, but Bailey didn't just make it 10 on 10, he made it 10 on 10 with the offense not having their #1WR, not the same thing. That ability to take out a #1WR is why Deon was, and Revis is, the highest paid CBs in the league.

Thing is, I mostly agree with you, I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here because I think you can't discount Bailey.

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I'm not discounting Bailey at all. I thought the topic asked us to pick one, so I did, and gave my reasons why. If we all reply that both are great, so it doesn't matter who you pick, we might as well close the thread because there is nothing to discuss.

Starr, Rodgers and Favre are/were all great QBs too, and you would do well to have any, yet if I had my choice, it would be in that order: Starr, Rodgers, Favre. (With another SB or two for Rodgers, I might reverse the top two.)

To be fair, often the best cover corners don't have a lot of tackles, interceptions, and passes defensed because they are rarely thrown on. Statistically, Richard Sherman had little impact in week 1, but when a guy completely takes away an option in the receiving game, that is big.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarveyWallbangers

To be fair, often the best cover corners don't have a lot of tackles, interceptions, and passes defensed because they are rarely thrown on. Statistically, Richard Sherman had little impact in week 1, but when a guy completely takes away an option in the receiving game, that is big.

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No argument there. It is often the reason given for Woodson having so few interceptions during the early years of his 1st stint in Oakland. Teams rarely threw his way, and he was not given the freedom to play as he did in GB.

An argument in Woodson's favour would be his DPoY, something Bailey never did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Guiness

An argument in Woodson's favour would be his DPoY, something Bailey never did.

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Many folks in Denver believe Champ was robbed of the DPOY in '06 when he had 10 picks and did not allow a single TD. The media gave it Jason Taylor, who (according to wiki) had 13.5 sacks, 9 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, and two interceptions (both of which were returned for touchdowns) for a 6-10 Dolphins team.

Personally, I'm leaning toward Wood. Champ was damn good pure cover corner. Wood was a complete corner.

At their best? Woodson. Not close. Bailey had a lot more steady of a career though and his peak spanned many seasons. Woodson was much more versatile and his 3ish year peak was amazing.

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Originally Posted by smuggler

At their best? Woodson. Not close. Bailey had a lot more steady of a career though and his peak spanned many seasons. Woodson was much more versatile and his 3ish year peak was amazing.

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This. We still miss Woody too. :sad:

In many ways Woodson epitomized the Packers' defense. The risks he took resulted in rewards that more than justified the risk. He was a perfect fit for us.

I watched many of the Dolphins games that season. Jason Taylor was the right choice. If Champ had done it the year Bob Sanders or Polamalu (lifetime achievement awards) won, or especially last year (undeserving TACKLES leader), he would probably have a DPotY.

I didn't see enough of Bailey to have a great opinion. That said, wood :)

Wood. More versatile and a wrecking ball during his best years. Bailey would take the opposing player off the board. Wood would disrupt an entire offense.

Champ I think was a better pure cover corner than Woodson was, but Woodson was by far a better all around player. Both should be the hall imo, but Woodson has a better chance having won a superbowl.

Woodson was the superior player

They played completely different styles, both are Hall of Famers but the Heisman, DPOY award, and a SB ring gives Woodson the edge.

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Originally Posted by Brandon494

They played completely different styles, both are Hall of Famers but the Heisman, DPOY award, and a SB ring gives Woodson the edge.

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Champ and Wood were actually very similar early in the career. They were multiple threats players in college; Kinda look like Deion Sanders in their first few years in the league. They played in different schemes, so they were used differently, imo.

Bailey stayed on the island. Woodson had to canoe and kayak and ended up charting a lot more of the defensive geography than Bailey ever did.