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With the addition of Haha, and the health of Richardson, the second year jump of Micah Hyde, did we see Safety go from haha...as in a joke, to a new era?
We all know the Haha story, but by reports, Hyde has been lining up with the #1's and Richardson is looking good in shorts, which should be his weakness.
Basically we added a first round talented rookie, and have 2 guys who should make the second year jump...richardson effectively lost last offseason, so I consider this his second year.
Hard to say. If Burnett returns to 2012 form, he and Haha should be a major improvement over last year. But I think Richardson and Hyde are still too much of a question mark to say the position is a strength.
i don't know if it is a strength yet. the guys are young, it might take timeQuote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead
the key at this point, IMO, is getting burnett out of the starting lineup. maybe its hyde, maybe its richardson, but one of those two taking over for burnett along side HaCD, could turn that unit from a complete joke into a solid unit
if burnett stays, i would say the unit would still be suspect
and of course it all depends on HaCD living up to his potential
Disagree. I think a lot depends on Burnett returning to his 2012 form, the one that earned him the contract he's got.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
HaHa and a recovered and "less green" Richardson will help.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
Safety play was fugly last season. For interceptions by Safeties, '14 was the lowest total in team history - Zero safety picks.
That's recorded history, maybe some team was worse than that before '32, but since they started keeping track, 14 was our worst season by safety combos.
Burnett is a culprit, but he had his moments. 96 tackles 60 solos. No picks, no passes defended (that has to be in error, he had a spectacular PD vs the Bears when we needed one)
Burnett has some great physical talent. Maybe HaHa and or Richardson can be the other guy and improve this very sorry unit.
Morgan playing at a much higher level is a great asset for the D. He must get better reads and use that athletic talent to make plays. He also needs to be a leader, get these kids lined up and show 'em the way. I definitely think we need him on the field if we are to be a top flight back line.
I think it was M.D. Jennings who had 0 passes defended.Quote:
Originally Posted by KYPack
Jennings was a bad player. Burnett is, I think, a pretty good player who had a bad year. I think there's a pretty good chance he bounces back.
This is sooooo much like the center discussions. HaHa hasn't played a down yet and what we have returning has been less than impressive. I'm a fan too, but let someone play a down before anointing them HOF
I didn't read anything even remotely close to that at all here.
Based on what I've read about Dix thus far in camp and his reports coming in, I think he projects to be a solid safety at least. He would seem to be what you're looking for on the back end. Good ball skills, takes good angles, not fast but good football agility and speed, reliable tackler - a reliable last line of defense kind of guy who's a true safety in every sense. Hopefully his "tissue-paper-on-the-restaurant-seat-with-buddies" and "serenading-women-on-big-boats" habits don't get in his way.
Burnett has already shown he can be a solid player so while he may not be the complete answer I think he can/will avoid being a consistent problem if he's used right. I too would love to see Hyde and Richardson make him expendable because Dix appears to be the best deep safety and I think Hyde is the best in-the-box bilitz/fill-in-the-run-game/playmaker.
But that's not really the way this coaching staff rolls. Burnett's gonna be in there as long as he's healthy because he's the most experienced and does everything well enough (but nothing great) to allow them to declare and adjust coverages, disguise and rotate on the fly.
I also think Richardson has the tools to play and am looking forward to see how he develops this year. He also looks like he could bring a lot of flexibility as long as he can handle the mental demands back there.
Hyde's just a good football player who can do everything but run with the gazelles on the outside. So as long as he's able to read and react without having to match up with the big and fast receivers he should be able to contribute and make plays when fulfilling safety roles.
Not sure about any of the other guys like Banjo or the guy from Iowa. Maybe they make the team and can be special team demons but it'd be a big stretch to say they're going to be contributors to any conclusions about the safety position being a strength. If they're playing, it's probably a weakness again.
I looked at the wrong column.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
Burnett had 6 passes defended.
ESPN stats had MD (Doc) Jennings with a pass defended.
Jerron McMillan also had one PD before they cut him.
None of em had a pick, I double checked (apologies to ARod).
The collapse of our two young safeties was one of the real disappointments of 13 season (not 14 like I posted).
Yes....we need to see Morgan Burnett tackle well and we need to see health at the FS and SS positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guiness
i think burnett is only still on this team because of his contract making it almost impossible to cut him right not. and i forget which beat writer it was (maybe mcginn), but he agreed by saying burnett would not be the second safety this year because he played himself out of a jobQuote:
Originally Posted by Guiness
burnett was bad, he was just as bad as jennings last year and blew just as many assignments. plus, burnett was responsible for making the secondary calls and getting everyone lined up right. we saw how well that worked out with everyone being confused on almost every single pass play
mcmillan was bad, he was cut. jennings was bad, he was allowed to walk. burnett was just as bad as those two, and he stays only because we can't cut him
I agree with much of what vince said.
I'm thinking pass rush and injuries didn't help the secondary, but I wonder if Burnett was hurt (he missed the start of the season) or overcompensating for Jennings/McMillian. I think he can play better than he did last year. I don't think he's a superstar, but he's good enough where he shouldn't be a weakspot. He has 14 picks in 3 years at GT, so he can be a ballhawk. Was Capers' scheme too vanilla and Burnett couldn't make plays?
I'm not sure how much HHCD will be able to bring as a rookie, rookie DBs tend to get picked on, and I'm sure he'll take his lumps. I do think if he made the calls for the Bama D he'll be able to pick up Capers scheme over the year.
Hyde's strengths (good tackler, decent coverage) and weaknesses (lack of top speed) play more to being a safety or hybrid role, and I think he will contribute, but I don't see him as a full-time safety this year.
Richardson is the wildcard to me. Who and what is he? I think he's a big guy who can play in the box and let Burnett play deep (Burnett's combine was clearly better than HHCD's), but if he can show the ability to cover and grasp the scheme he could be starting Game 1 and holding it down until HHCD takes over in Game 6 while providing depth and ST coverage.
I think Banjo is a ST guy who could surprise, but I'm skeptical he beats out any of the above.
IMO, Burnett is a follower, not a leader. Burnett only played good when he had Collins next to him. Hell, Collins made Charlie Peprah look good. The sooner they get rid of Burnett, the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
I do hope you're joking, Pittstang.
I myself am curious to see what Richardson can do. I wonder if he's healthy enough and learned enough of the system to start. I understand he is a rather skilled athlete with good size.
I have missed on these before, but I don't think the Packers are done with Burnett starting. He would have to be as bad in camp as last year to fall out of the lineup. He started in OTA, we'll see if he is still there in camp. If McGinn was right, you would think he wouldn't take #1 reps with other healthy bodies around. Don't see him as Alex Green yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
I'm not a fan of Burnett and hated that the Packers extended him. We need a leader back there and he has shown me nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
well the only other option to starting burnett in ota's is to start richardson who has limited experience or hyde who has never played the position beforeQuote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
it doesn't matter who is starting in OTA's (look at the browns, is there any doubt that johnny football will be their starter this year? he's currently 3rd on the depth chart) but who's starting when the regular season get here. i would be a bit surprised if burnett was still the starter when regular season gets here, because i think he was every bit as bad as jennings and burnett last season,and if he is handed the starting job i would have to question whether its a case of a guy starting because his cap number says he's a starter
Burnett was rated by PFF as a "Yellow" player for 2013 which equates to "Average NFL Starter." He had a down year for sure, but at the risk of being polarized or exaggerating my opinion (I don't think he's a real difference-maker) I don't think nearly as bad as you're depicting Red.
He made very few plays last year but "average starter" I think is a fairly accurate depiction of him. If the play of his running mate improves, and the style of the front 7 becomes more of a 1-gap penetrating rather than a 2-gap "keep 'em in front of you" style as I'm thinking it will, his play will likely improve too because he'll have more opportunities to make some plays. Some of them will fall right into his lap but he can make 'em if they come that way. If healthy, he's not a liability and that's not a bad thing for a safety to be if you got other guys making plays too.
There were some miscommunications on the back-end but I don't think you can fairly pin those on Burnett. Without sitting in the film room and knowing what's discussed all week and hearing the communication live, it's pretty impossible to know what the reality is there.
I do wish he made about half of what he makes though. Average safeties should be paid like below average safeties if they're going to bring value to the table.
Burnett will certainly be one to watch this year. I don't know what to expect, but I hope he responds with a bounce back year. He needs to.
How often did the Packers lose the down and distance battle last year on defense? Can't stop the run consistently? 2nd or 3rd and short is a whole different ball of wax vs. more favorable down and distances for the defense. It's much easier for DB's to cover if the front seven can stop the run, create more favorable down and distances, perhaps a third and long (a fan can dream) every once in a while, and then a pass rush that can get home or knock the QB off their launch point, or move his feet. Burnett was bringing a knife to a gun fight some weeks. He's not Ronnie Lott, but he's better than he played last year.
Absent injury, Burnett will be starting and will be what he has been, an OK starter. If he had come up with two or three interceptions last year, but was identical on all other plays, he wouldn't be an issue this off season. Two or three plays don't change him from an OK starter to a liability.
The entire team sucked at interceptions last year. Burnett's part in it is being overblown.
Thus the question mark. I am not declaring the position a strength, I am simply saying on paper we might be worlds better than last year for all the reasons I laid out. What we have returning (as I stated already) are 2 second year guys who could make "the jump" and a guy who had his worst year as a pro and MAY return to form. I think its a valid discussion point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jeff
Don't get me wrong. I'm all over the HaHa pick. I think and I hope its a home run. Its the other guy I'm worried about.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead
I felt that Morgan Burnett tackled and played well in 2011 and 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patler
I'm hoping that 2013 was simply an off year and the non supporting cast at the Safety position brought him down.
we got 3 shots at the other guy panning out....and almost no way it can be worse than MD Jennings and McMillan. If 2 of them pan out, I can call the position a strength, but of course we are assuming haha will be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jeff
I agree, Burnett might not have been 100% last year and having Jennings and McMillan did him no favors. IMO our safety play will be improved by just replacing these 2 with Hyde and Ha Ha - addition by subtraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by run pMc
I'll settle for average. I also won't put an ounce of value in Richardson until I see him accomplish something in a game.
With that being said, I think Burnett has the ability to be decent, HaHa can be decent, and perhapy even Hyde there.
Adding a vet with some leadership still IMO would have been wise
Perhaps you will prove to be right about Burnett not being a leader. However, the idea that Burnett only played well when he was next to Collins is a myth. Due to injuries, Burnett and Collins only played together for 4 games in 2010 and 2 games in 2011. When Burnett had his best season in 2012, Collins was no longer playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pittstang5
Then those six games were probably Burnett's best games. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
Ooh - good one!Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/z...Patlerized.jpg
The Patler Stamp!Quote:
Originally Posted by Guiness
When was the last time that was used?
So, I am sipping the kool aid after reading about Richardson and Hyde making plays, looking good. The problem is that I haven't' read much about Burnett or HaHa making plays or looking good.
Well at least they are practicing against one of the best aerial attack in the NFL.
FIFY ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Oday
They've mentioned HaHa a few times, both good and bad. I can't remember anything being written about Brunett. I still think he will start, not because of the contract but because safety is one of the spots where experience is more critical than raw talent. After 3 years Woodson is saying he finally feels like a safety, so we need someone with a few years under his belt calling the plays in the backfield.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead
I agree to a large extent. I think Hyde will be the steady eddy we need there. HaHa probably will be better than Hyde with some NFL experience. Richardson is the wildcard, wildly talented with a skillset the other 2 can only dream of, but also the most likely to never become an NFL starter while at the same time the most likely to be the next Nick Collins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretsky
edit: Although i think Hyde and HaHa are entirely different types of talents. They actually match up together more than they should compete. I still see Burnett as the most rounded in his game, but inferior to all 3 of the others in their areas of strength.