As things are now, what would you do at year end ?
As things are now, what would you do at year end ?
I think this is an interesting debate.
Some of in the camp....TT inflexibility has resulted in some failure hear and too many weaknesses...Bring us the Viking GM....Bring us Eliot Wolf...Hell just bring us somebody else !
or
Some are in the camp...MM...all things were rolling so well and he played with the OC and several decisions have everything messed up...we're 7-8 in our last 15 games...and our QBs are not thriving
or
All is good; injuries happen.......we will bounce back
Or
Throw both of their asses to the curb. SEAN PAYTON anybody ?????????????
As things are...I'll take that to mean Packers are a wild card team but nothing more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bretsky
I'm not sure Thompson is as good as he was. I suspect he may be thinking about retirement. I'd make the change to Wolf (or someone else), and let the new GM make the decision on McCarthy.
No on Sean Payton. He's Rex Ryan on offense, can't figure out how to defend no matter coach or personnel since Gregg Williams.
Ted seems to have had two good drafts in a row. Its early for Clark/Spriggs/Fackrell but all three have shown something in the regular season. T2 hasn't slipped much, though he desperately needs offensive skill position players now.
I started off in the offseason with reservations about McCarthy and his weak spots. He has shown signs of improvement in two areas (4 minute offense, scheming to free players up from man coverage) but he hasn't fixed his QB yet.
If things stay as they are and that means 9-6 with the season in the balance during the last week, its entirely dependent on how the offense responds.
But if I move someone its the HC. That might mean I have to move the GM, who I think would resist the move. But I start with coach first if the offense still struggles.
I've been saying for years, Thompson is overrated as a GM. The success his teams have had boils down to one thing: drafting Aaron Rodgers. Take that wonderful event away, and Packer teams would be mediocre or worse. To a great extent, he has wasted the prime years of Rodgers by settling for good enough around him without maximizing things.
The other thing that is sticking out like a sore thumb more and more and more is McCarthy - specifically his play calling - which is over cautious, uncreative, and generally inadequate. He too has had a long string of winning teams - primarily because of Aaron Rodgers, but he absolutely does NOT maximize things. The culmination of that was the stupid beyond belief, totally inexcusable first and goal at the one play last week where he did not even have Lacy on the field - or any other running back. All the God damned times that they run it into the line on first down and maybe second too, thereby putting a shitload of pressure on our QB on obvious passing situations, then in a situation that absolutely begs for a simple power run, he lines up with an empty back field. Pass or QB draw - which was so obvious everybody and his brother knew it was coming, is just plain wrong.
I still think this team is gonna snap out of the funk and go fairly deep into the playoffs - yet again not maximizing things, though. It's tough to get rid of the coach and/or GM in that situation. According to the premise of the thread, though, if I was suddenly the majority stockholder of the Packers or whatever, I really would pull the trigger and dump both of their sorry asses. I would not go with Elliot Wolf. I would look for a completely new mindset in both GM and coach - somebody who would show some daring and pizzazz both in personnel decisions and in play calling and game planning.
Welcome back Tex! But don't go up there again for either the Badgers or the Packers. Talk about jinxing them!:-)
Hell Yeah. All things considered, I prefer watching games on TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxie the Taxi
It was a generally fun trip, although that's kinda like the old thing "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"
no surprise here....but I think I'm dumping the GM, hiring Wolf...and letting him make the call. As sad it it sounds lately I seem to have been right way too many times over TT.....yes...Hunter Henry...Allan Robinson...and even the Dirty Crab....who I begged TT to take...when he grabbed Raji for need.
His inflexibility leaves us weak in spots too many times.....he keeps us good but not great.
I want Seattle's GM, and there are plenty I think I'd take over TT
I say dump them both. The GM should not be from the TT tree. We need new blood and prospective. I'd like to see Dan Campbell or Darrell Bevell as Head Coach. A guy like Lane Kiffin as Offensive Coordinator. And Dave Aranda as Defensive Coordinator.
Time for both to go. Not that they wouldn't excel elsewhere, but the show has become stale.
Is TT really that good anymore? He's a pretty good drafter, but leaves gaping holes in the roster that he refuses to fill via other methods. And then the drafts themselves aren't doing much. Will Randall and Rollins be good? Adams over Robinson? Perry (who is finally producing) over Harrison Smith? Worthy over Lavonte David?
TT was a standout when the internal draft and develop process was relatively new. Now everyone does it, so there is no competitive advantage to this anymore.
I'd bring in Josh McDaniel and hold an open competition at QB. Rodgers has to earn his starting gig.
the short sightedness of this rb situation is the latest mark against tt. he, at least, has to go.
I prefer an occum's razor approach to my pitchforks and torches.
Is the offense under-performing because of inadequate talent or a failure to get reasonable performance out of adequate talent? Personally I think the talent on both sides of the ball is more than good enough to win with so its hard to build much of a case against TT at the moment.
Time for a new HC. He is supposed to be a QB guru and offensive mastermind....both of which ain't workin no mo.
Stubbs has run his course. Time to get some fresh blood.
I agree with this. Having said that, they are gonna lose Elliot if they don't make a move here. Is he a true stud? I dunno, but I suspect they will want to find out and encourage Ted to take a different role but still Senior VP of something or other.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3irty1
The question about talent is a good one. You are struggling to get first downs with people open early. So why don't Monty and Abby play more?
Sounds more like M3.
Matt Millen for GM!
Sometimes you need change to revitalize a team. MM could definitely go on to be successful elsewhere and I would wish him well, but it's time to dump him. He and Rodgers are too comfortable and Rodgers is now playing very poorly for it. TT has not stocked the team with quality skill position players. We have a bunch of average guys who are slow and plodding. No quick RB, no quick TE, our best WR coming off an ACL injury, so no fast WR.
I usually give TT the benefit of the doubt, but the decision to go with 2 RB's this year was hard to fathom. Did he really think Starks and Lacy were going to go the entire year without getting hurt? Neither player has a history that would suggest that. I was also surprised he didn't draft a RB last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgary
Both of these guys can go in my book.
Thompson is a good GM simply because he abides by the mantra of draft and develop. He is correct in believing that you build a better team through internal development than by buying big name free agents. However, I'm not sure that Thompson's ability to procure actual talent in the draft is head and shoulders above other GMs in the league. I think he's still better than most, but I'm fairly certain that there are at least 6-8 guys in the league better at it than him now...and that number is only going to increase over time as the old school GMs retire and the new whiz kids start to take over. Thompson was best when he still had guys like Schneider around him in support. When that strong supporting cast started to break up, the cracks in the dam started to show.
Thompson has made several strategic errors lately. He had to cut Sitton without getting anything of value for him, mostly because he did not have an acceptable level of comfort with the guys who would fill his shoes until it was too late. Despite the gaping hole at TE in recent years, the best we've gotten so far is Cook...when half of the teams in the NFL have high producing TEs on the roster. This RB debacle is just another example of how far Thompson has slipped in recent years.
As for Stubby...he's just not an impressive coach to me. He often plays not to lose rather than going for the win. His tendencies can be all over the map at times, which may be a strength except for the fact that he is a very reactionary coach. His approach to the running game has often left us scratching our heads. It is just hard to get a grasp on how good a coach he is when all we've seen of him has been with either Favre or Rodgers under center. Most coaches in the NFL could win 60% of their games with those guys as their QBs. Where I find him to be fatally flawed is in how he constitutes his staff. I do not believe Edgar Bennett is a good enough coach to be an offensive coordinator, and I think that plays a role in how poorly this offense is functioning. Stubby kept Slocum around WAY too long...and I'm not sure Zook is much of an improvement. Whatever happened with the play calling duties last year...that was a debacle on par with Thompson's RB gaffe. It doesn't feel like the team responds to him like they did in his first 6-8 years with the team. Based on the evidence that suggests it is better to let a good coach go than hold him for too long, I wouldn't mind bringing some new ideas and viewpoints at the top.
Both. We need new blood. Neither is the guru many claim they are.
Fat mike is far from an offensive guru, an he's managed to break a HOF an. Plus is offense is just way to stale and unimaginative.
Tat for all the love he gets, still misses big on most of his picks, and when you only build a team through the draft, you have to hit and damn near every pick. He takes too damn long to fill major needs. And I would say that most of his picks are only still in the NFL or starting because of his ad version to free agency
Give the keys to the kid and let him bring in his own coach, maybe one that can undo to a rod what fat mike did
My personal opinion is to blow it up and start over again. I'd get rid of the GM and the coach. I find the parallels between T.T. and Ron Wolf to be kind of interesting:
Wolf -G.M. for about 10 years. Got his franchise and Hall of Fame Q.B. early in his tenure and ended up winning 1 SB.
T.T. - G.M. for, (I think this is his 11th year??) Got his franchise/potential Hall of Fame Q.B. early in his tenure and has 1 S.B. victory.
I understand that's it's harder than hell to win a SB and you need a lot of luck along the way with avoiding injuries, a few bounces to go your way, playing your best at the right time. etc.. A lot of people talk about the league being so, "Q.B. driven" and that you need a superior Q.B. in order to win but I personally don't believe this at all. Recently teams having been winning the S.B. with superior defenses and adequate to good offenses. I'm just not a fan of and don't believe you can win it all with poor D and a video game offense. If Q.B. play is as much of a driving force as some people say than I would suggest it's been a failure on the part of both Wolf and T.T. to, "only" win 2 Super Bowls with 25 straight years of having Hall of Fame caliber Q.B.'s. (I'll leave the Sherman/Rhoades era out of the equation because that was a total clusterfuk.)
Again...what in the hell do I know and I sure as heck don't claim to have all the answers so this is just my personal opinion. I feel that minor tweaks here and there aren't getting it done any longer and it's time for a major shakeup again. I'm personally ready to see a team that's built on a stronger D because I believe it will always keep you in the game and give you a better chance to win. Seems like someone always figures out a way to stop video game offenses and the likelihood of having your O have a bad game at the wrong time is greater than a superior D having a bad game or getting completely blown up. T.T. has spent a lot of high draft picks and resources on the D trying to make it better but so far I don't think the return on the investment has been very good. I agree with some people who believe that Rodgers playing at an all world level for several years covered up a lot of warts and shortcomings on this team.
I also agree that it's highly possible for T.T. or Stubby to go on to do well somewhere else. Neither one is close to being the, "worst" at what they do and they've both had proven success. I just feel that it's time for a big change.
Been awhile...
I'd say keep both. BUT...
I'd get another quality RB and CB asap.
And put in Janis, Davis and Abby much more than Adams for speed. Get faster passes and throw off tendency. This 3rd and 1 -'d BB it shit has got to stop
McCarthy is a good coach but 11 years is a long time for a loaf of bread. The bad news is, he really is good and his replacement is likely to do worse, not better, than he is doing now.
Dump them both. It aint working.
Oh yeah, trade Error Rodgers.
Would you still put Janis in after last night?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fosco33
Where was the choice to trade Aaron Rodgers and start over with Hundley?
Really? We are talking Arod trades? lol
If he plays just average for yet another season, why not? Then again if he goes to another team he will probably be good again as he would have better coaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak Out