NFL Hall of Fame 2015: Tinglehoff Gets Senior Nod, Kramer Waits

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-hall-of-fame/

Jerry Kramer's daughter has been raising a fuss for 2 or 3 years on the Internets about his continued exclusion. This is not going to pass unnoticed by that crowd.

I'll let Shadow, Patler and KY (maybe Woodbuck!) tell you how dumb the exclusion is, but I will note that he is the only player on the All-NFL 50th Anniversary Team not in the Hall. He was also named a Guard on the All-1960s team (Kramer, Howard Mudd and Gene Hickerson) and only Hickerson is in the Hall.

http://blog.packers.com/2014/04/26/w...all-of-fame-2/

The HOF has changed its voting procedure for the next few years, allowing in 2 contributors (not players/coaches) in 3 of the next 5 years I believe. To keep the number of total enshrines steady, in those years, only one Senior candidate will make it to a final vote. Tinglehoff is that guy in 2015.

Tinglehoff was a good player. I can't criticize his election. It has been that way with most of the Senior candidates over the years.

To be honest, I felt Dave Robinson was at least as deserving and probably even more deserving than Kramer. I complained about that for years and years. Robinson was a special player, not just a very good one, in my opinion.

Kramer is every bit as good as many others who are in the Hall, but I suspect the same can be said about many players from other teams, too. Kramer was good, but I'm not sure that he was better or more valuable than Bob Skoronski, perhaps the most under appreciated Packer from the '60s. I know Kramer wasn't as good as Gale Gillingham. Neither Skoronski nor Gillingham has a prayer of getting into the Hall. I think Gillingham was the best guard the Packers have had while I've been watching them.

Kramer was popular, and had a nice back story, which got even better when he almost died while playing with the Packers. His notoriety snowballed with the books that he wrote. If he is ever elected, it will be deserved. If he is not elected, it seems somewhat unfair, but isn't a travesty of epic proportions.

Kramer also gets some beef from being perceived a favorite of Lombardi's. I know one of the centers on the team has said he wasn't surprised Lombardi helped promote the idea that Kramer had made the crucial block in the Ice Bowl for the Starr sneak to the media. True or not, the resentment seemed real.

Cliff Christl (not to be confused with Rat historian Cleft Crusty) mentions in the packers.com article linked above that several players have publicly said Gillingham was the best Guard on the team during that era, which hasn't helped Kramer's case.

Starr is also on record that Skoronski should be the next guy in.

Kramer is somewhat a victim of the success of the Lombardi glory years. I think there is a bit of hesitancy to elect too many Packers from that era. He is, of course, quite deserving of the honor.

A few things here.

JK should 100% be in the NFL HOF.

NFL Films top 10 NOT in HOF

10. Ken Anderson
9. Steve Tasker
8. Alex Karras (A glaring omission, probably from the '63 gambling suspension)
7. Ricky Waters
6. Kenny Stabler
5. Andre Reed — inducted
4. Jim Marshall
3. Shannon Sharpe– inducted
2 Cris Carter– inducted
1. Jerry Kramer

3 of the top 5 of that list are now in the HOF.

The #1 player not in the hall needs to go in.

Kramer hasn't been inducted for various political factors.

There was some jealousy and pettiness bc Kramer (& Dick Schaap) wrote the million selling book, Instant Replay. Some of the voters then felt Kramer had achieved enough fame and notoriety. There also is a strong "enough Lombardi Packers" sentiment among the voters. One writer made the comment that if Kramer were added, they should strip Lombardi of his plaque bc anybody could coach 11 HOFers successfully. I'm really glad that Dave Robinson made it in, but now Jerry needs to be voted in as the last of the Lombardi Pack to be so named.

Gale Gillingham was the best Packer Olineman of that era?

That is total bullshit. The Lombardi era teams had Jim Ringo, Forrest Gregg, and Jerry Kramer on it. Those guys are the best OLineman of the Lombardi era. Gilly was a great hand and an underrated player, but he's not the player those 3 HOFers are.

There other points to be made in this discussion, which I will, if anybody gives a shit about it.

Go on. At length. But I have read that as good and durable as Gregg was, Skoronsky was better at tackle. Christl made the point that some teammates thought Gillingham was the best O lineman of the era. To be fair, that might include only late era Lombardi (Super Bowl years, roughly) since Gillingham was a latecomer to the Dynasty.

He replaced Thurston who Lombardi was said to have been trying to arrange for a couple of years and he was around for the tail end of Kramers career only.

Steve Tasker deserves induction about as much as I do. Gillingham spent the majority of his career babysitting other players on a bad team in the 70s. He's a top-10 all-time guard.

It's getting harder for me in my middle age and fading memory to tell whether someone like Ken Anderson or "Snake" Stabler are worthy. I know Kenny Anderson toiled for some mediocre Bungles teams, and I remember thinking that he was an awfully good QB. And I remember Kenny Stabler as being Favre before there was a Favre - the southern good ol' boy, just a kid out there, but an often hungover kid, making plays up as he went.

But I don't know, it's hard to compare. Completion percentages were so much lower then. The 70's was the era of the running game as king, and DB's could mug and rape receivers, and do it with stickum.

As for Karras, he was an old guy by the time I started watching in the very late 60's. He lived hard, and in those days they didn't train like they do today, so he was at the end of the line by the time I saw him. So I don't know.

Gillingham was a better guard than either Kramer or Thurstan, in my opinion. Better lineman than Gregg?? That I doubt, if for no other reason than that Lombardi himself called Forrest Gregg the finest player he ever coached.

A more interesting question might be if Gregg was a better guard than Gillingham. After all, when Kramer was out for a year, Gregg switched to guard, where he was named all pro as well. The man was all pro at two positions.

Then, again, Gillingham was asked to play DT after having been all-pro at guard.......but that was Dan Devine....

It would be a super long shot, but I'd have no problem with Gilly in the HOF. He was that good. Bob Lilly said that Gale was the best guard he ever faced.

The reason I said the claim that Gale was better than Kramer was bullshit was bc that's the line Kramer's detractors use against him.

Jerry is the most deserving player not in the HOF.

I also would have no problem with Mick Tinglehoff getting in, but Jerry should also be voted in.

Steve Tasker?

NFW.

NFFFFFFW.