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Stupid article. Packers aren't a winner in the 1st month of the offseason? No shit. Are the Packers EVER a winner in the 1st month of the offseason? Yet almost every year they're among the league's elite. The Packers don't sign a free agent for every free agent lost. They don't expect several rookies to come in and replace veterans. They develop players. That's what they do. That's why they can release an aging Josh Sitton and still have a good offensive line. History would suggest they'll also be able to replace Lang. I don't know by who. Training camp will determine that. They haven't adequately replaced Sam Shields and Eddie Lacy? When they made their playoff run last year, they didn't HAVE Sam Shields and Eddie Lacy. They don't need to replace them. They were already gone.
I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know who exactly who will step up. I would say though that that Ty Montgomery, Randall, Rollins, Clark, Fackrell, Kyle Murphy and Trevor Davis are good candidates. And they might even get contributions from a rookie or 2. History is on the Packers side, no matter what the writer of this article thinks.
Preach it Joe! That's how draft and develop systems are supposed to work. They aren't without faults though. But no system is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
Draft and Develop will be tested like never before this year. What many called at the start of last season "one of the best offensive lines in the NFL" lost two Pro-Bowl guards. Our offense also lost its best RB. Our defense lost its top CB and a proven playmaker in Peppers. Some would argue our leaky secondary cost us a trip to the Super Bowl.
We're counting on an untested Practice Squad guy to replace Lang, a converted WR (who has lost many games to injuries) to replace Lacy, an iffy House to replace Shields, a dramatic off-season improvement in Randall and Rollins to save our secondary and a 2nd year skinny guy to replace Peppers.
The good news is, if TT is smart about the draft, help is there to be found.
But it isn't a sure bet by any means.
I woulda guessed McGinn. Oates isn't usually a negativist, is he?
I like Joe's "article" a lot more than Oates's.
Oates says RB is a gaping hole after losing Lacy? No way. I will stop short (just barely short) of saying it was addition by subtraction losing Lacy, but Montgomery, Michael, Ripkowski, and Crockett are plenty even if we don't get draft help. I like Ripkowski as a change of pace power runner actually better than Lacy.
True, Guard is sorta a gaping hole, but it takes a year or two usually to have an O Lineman develop. Spriggs at RT and Bulaga for Lang would seem to be adequate at least, maybe even an upgrade. Anyway, our O Line benefits greatly from the mobility of Aaron Rodgers, and I predict whoever we use, they will thrive for that reason - just look at Lane Taylor.
Corner may be a gaping hole, but that was already true last season, and the team wasn't too far from the top. As has been said many times, the draft is strong in that area, and there is at least some chance Randall - who I'm negative on - as well as Gunter - who I like better than most people - and Rollins - who may or may not have more potential than any of the others - will come through. Remember a year ago? Everybody was saying Corner was a Packer strength.
And Edge Rusher a gaping hole because of losing Peppers and Datone? Losing Datone definitely will be addition by subtraction. My guy, Jayrone Elliot, is much better, and Fackrell just might be also. Peppers still had his moments, but they were so spotty that no way it's a gaping hole with him gone.
i think it's right on point. i don't think he's being negative either. right now the team isn't better than last year. more players will be released with the june 1st date coming so there might be a pick up available there. another corner was released by someone the other day (forget who) so add another team into the mix, before the Packers pick, looking for a corner. tt's going to have to move up if that's what he's looking for...or he can make a trade for a cb and go edge in the draft. the Packers need more than one impact starter and the draft is only likely to provide one...maybe.
With just average health the Packers will probably improve over last year. But that doesn't mean much considering how much they underperformed last year.
We're in the same boat as everyone else though. Whoever wins the SB will have some pleasant surprises emerge from their 2016 and 2015 classes. This "one overpaid guy away" narrative in the heads of fans is baloney. That said, Ted please sign AP.
RE teh draft and develop plan ,
http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-v...t-drafted-them
While ted has not had many stellar drafts when keeping them for the second contract, that seems to be the new norm.
Consistent increases in the Salary Cap make FA even more expensive in years than when it was flatter. Encourages more players to forgo signing a deal early.
Well put Joe. Covered everything I was thinking when I read the article. I'll add one caveat. We start the season with fuckdoggle at guard, but around halftime of game 3 or 4 we end up with spriggs in the game. My gut reaction is that he plays RT and Bulaga moves in, but he might just end up playing G the rest of the way. Not his position, but it can work for a season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
At RB we are going to draft someone withing 3 rounds. He will be stellar. Paired with Monty we will all be hailing Teddy Genius for not signing Fat Eddie. Everyone will forget that we called RB a hole.
At CB we will also draft someone. My gut tells me a healthy Randall really steps up in season 3. By not requiring Gunther to mirror Juilo Jones the entire secondary will look much better. In a deep CB draft we will be better, but still wanting for a Shields type #1 CB.
Pass Rush is my fear. I'm not sold on anyone on the Roster other than Perry. Its also low % to think you can draft for that and be successful. I'm praying that TT either trades up or catches lightning and someone slips. We need more pressure on the passer and I don't have a guess where its coming from.
This take is wrong. It was wrong when we discussed it in the other thread, and its wrong in its own thread. You want proof?
Every Packer beat writer is making it. This is the 2017 version of some veteran must be released due to high cap numbers despite there being no cap concerns.
The Packers did not have Eddie Lacy or Sam Shields for Run The Table or the playoffs yet still got to the Championship. One was replaced completely by Monty. The other was replaced by a gaping hole.
But House has already stepped into the gaping hole and will make the backend better. Ted will draft someone because 2016 scared him about all 3 of the young guys and talented depth is a must.
Edge rusher is a concern, mainly because of the injury history of the two starters. but between Fackrell and Elliot, someone will step up and Ted will draft someone here. But its not a gaping hole, its a depth and future talent problem.
Jones IS NOT AN ISSUE, because the one spot he provided some production from was interior rush. Otherwise he was mediocre depth at OLB. And his interior rush snaps will go to Clark, a better player.
Like McGinn who cannot remember all the successful Packer Decembers without a big running back, everyone has forgotten that Guard is the RB of the offensive line. Lang's replacement is on the roster. Only if a talent like Sitton is drafted in Round 4 will there be a rookie there.
We've gone 11 posts on this page, not to mention that article, many of them discussing edge rushers, and not one mention of Clay Matthews. He still is the best we've got when healthy, better than Perry, better than the two we lost, better than the two young replacements. I say that to point out that we don't really have a gaping hole at edge rusher. Of course it also demonstrates the fact that it's been a long time since we picked up a real difference maker - at all on defense, at all on the team.
we have 2 edge rushersQuote:
Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker
both have been extremely injury prone over their entire careers
add to that the idea that injuries, age, or just being off the juice has caught up with clay, and he's a fraction of the player he was early in his career
also
clay played 46% of the defensive snaps
perry played 58.6
datone played 53.26
and peppers played 56.75
we basically had 4 starters splitting time at OLB last year
it was a clear rotation of players that we no longer have anymore. any clay standing on the sideline late in big games for years now should be enough proof that he can't play anywhere close to a full game
as PB pointed out in another thread somewhere on here, we had average health last yearQuote:
Originally Posted by 3irty1
and probably the year before that and the year before that. its time to stop using the injury excuse every year, it happens to everyone every year. sometimes you just have to cover your ass better then "undrafted rookie #1-10" for depth
house will fight it out with the others for one starting spot. we need to draft a real starter at the other cb spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
House is outside at one CB spot. Gunter or Randall will be at the other currently. Rollins/Randall will be in the slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbgary
Plus the even younger guys in the mix: Dorleant, Goodson, Hawkins, Waters and draft pick.
i was editing as you were posting. sorry.
None of those guys is an impact player... or even potentially an impact player - that's the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
I like Monty as a roll player, but all the rest of those guys are JAGS.
Rodgers carries the whole team... tough to win championships with just one legit star player. We're good enough offensively with Rodgers and the supporting cast, but the defense has no identity, and a sub-par coordinator. Ted, and the Packers as an organization, simply don't get "it" when it comes to defense. Unfortunately, that isn't going to change for the foreseeable future.
Last year was an odd year. Although the total number of injuries wasn't severe, The Packers were hit at certain positions very hard. They played several games minus their top 3 CB's (Shields, Randall, Rollins). Clay got moved inside when their 2 starting ILB's were hurt at the same time. Montgomery became the starting RB because Lacy, Starks and Don Jackson were all hurt at the same time. No team has the depth to deal with those types of situations. I think it was bad luck that won't likely be repeated. If they can keep the total injuries at a reasonable level, I think they'll fare better in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by red
The Packers team as a whole was injured at an average rate. But the defense bore the brunt of it, especially the DBs and OLBs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
Pb, I respect your opinion on all things football, but I gotta ask. What is it about House that gives you any confidence at all? I see a guy who played one good game because the refs decided holding a WR was a good idea because it would benefit the 49ers D more than the Packers D. Other than that game I have not very fond memories of House. Add to that he was benched by....THE JAGUARS!Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
Don't look too much into the fact that House was benched by the Jags. First of all, it's not like they got better after he was benched. Second, maybe consider the possibility that the Jags are the Jags because they make bad personnel decisions. Paying House 6 mil per was one. Maybe benching him was another.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead
I remember House a little more favorably than you do. He had some good moments against big physical receivers. He's not the savior of the secondary, but he can play a positive role.
When healthy, yes, CM3 is our best edge rusher. That is the rub, tho. Clay has had issues staying healthy the past couple of seasons. I fully expect Ted to draft an EDGE guy because you can't have enough of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by texaspackerbacker
Numbers wise we had average health last year. However, when a position gets hammered like CB did last year that will really screw your pass defense when you can't rush the passer and teams throw against you at will. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by red
Didn't the Jags change their defensive scheme?Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
He is serviceable. If he was suddenly present on the Packers roster at the end of last year he is starting opposite Gunter. So consider him tire fire insurance at one level.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobblehead
Second as Pugger and Joe have said, he was benched for looking at the QB and getting beat behind him in a zone. I would rather have my CBs NOT do that, but he will get to play man to man again with the Packers.
He plays outside CB, where the Packers have a true gaping hole.
I don't consider him a long term solution. Just a bridge. My view of how he will perform varies between good enough and kinda poor. The reason I can't decide my faded memory of the Atlanta night game at Lambeau a couple of years ago. Either he or Shields started versus Julio and held him in check for more than a half. Then they got hurt and the backup came in. If the backup was House, he got roasted then (big Atlanta comeback fell short) and will likely be roasted against top competition again. If House got hurt and was the one who helped bottle Jones up, he might still have some upside.
Seriously, never ever ever can you have too many pass rushers now. If you can hit the QB on 35-40% of his dropbacks, you're going to win a lot of football games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugger
House was the guy who came in and had some success against Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmax
http://www.packers.com/news-and-even...e-f690f30a793b
I remember reading the next day that House went to the coaching staff and begged them to put him on Jones.Quote:
Practically every member of the Packers secondary took a turn against Jones, with little to no success. Cornerback Sam Shields didn’t practice all week due to his recovery from a concussion, and he wasn’t sharp. He eventually gave way in the fourth quarter to House, who held his own against Jones better than any of his teammates. House broke up one deep ball to Jones and then nearly intercepted a pass to him in the end zone.
Since this draft has plenty of corners, I would like to see Ted go after some pass rush - an OLB. Is JJ Watt a guy with superstar potential? I don't know much about the college kids.
He can try his luck again at corner in round two, I would say. Then go after a running back in round three to team with Montgomery. Then get a guard.
Cool. I just remember the comeback and assumed it was Jones led. I obviously had the details wrong but House having some success was the other takeaway I remembered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joemailman
You know, somebody on another thread had a great idea, complete with reasoning:
Ted drafts wide receivers like nobody's business. He hardly ever misses.
Ted can't draft defensive linemen to save his ass, except for Mike Daniels, the one diamond in a pile of what has been otherwise mostly poo.
Ted can find UDFA corners, but can't seem to draft them well higher up in the draft.
THEREFORE
Draft nothing but wide recievers early, then get your guard and running back and whatnot later.
Then trade Cobb (if you can) and some surplus wide recievers (does it matter which ones? Maybe. But trade some) to other teams, for their OLB's, an ILB, maybe a corner and a defensive lineman.
Problem solved.
I've seen some mock draft boards that have Watt falling to the Packers in Round 2, which would allow TT to draft a starter-quality CB in Round 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
One way or the other TT will have the opportunity to pick a pass rusher and a CB in Rounds 1 & 2. It all depends on who in particular the Packer powers that be like most or consider the best fit for them. How everything will shake out on draft day is unpredictable no matter what the "experts" say.
How true that is. And then we'll act like we know how they're all going to pan out.
It's like getting married. You think you know what you're doing and who you're getting, but you really don't know shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
Ted Hates Badgers
With that being said TJ is going to be a very solid pro LB and is worthy of our #1 pick.
Bretsky, I'm going to whine a little bit here, then agree with something else you've said before.
So, the whining: I am tired of the Packers having "very solid pro" kind of guys, like Micah Hyde (I am actually glad he's gone) or Mike Neal or Letroy Guion or Jake Ryan or fill-in-the-blank. Even Clay Matthews is slumping into a "very solid pro." Would anyone call him a great player any more?
This team needs a star, needs a difference-maker. Can JJ Watt be that guy, do you think?
Okay, moving on - you've said before that TT can't seem to transform his defenses into top-ten powerhouses that can win you a SB. And there was a good article in the JSO on just that - how TT has used lots of draft resources (and he's even signed guys here and there, like Peppers) but he misses and misses and misses on them. Don't get me wrong, some of them can play - but they tend to be either just-okay guys or maybe that "solid pro" who is above average. But man, we all know that a defense needs playmakers, and Ted cannot seem to find those guys very well. Sure, it's hard for anyone to do, but some teams seem to build better defenses than Ted does without investing so many high-round draft picks, or if they do, those picks pay off.
I'm tired of watching our defenses get torn up, other teams going up and down the field freely. The stout defensive performances (the Seattle NFC championship game) are the exceptions, and they are few and far between. There are many, many more memories of teams abusing a helpless Green Bay defense - the Falcons and Cowboys this season, back to Colin Kaepernick and company doing anything they wanted. Good God, the Packer defense just can never seem to get off the field, and I am sick of that.
Fritz, you want a playmaker? A difference-maker? You want TT to draft this guy:
Adoree' Jackson http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profil...son?id=2558065
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROTgXqxyzq4
To get him you'd probably have to trade up and/or spend your first round pick on him. And he'd plug a real need in our secondary... ...Maybe. Nothing is a sure bet.
There isn't one guy in the draft whose scouting profile is all strengths and no weaknesses.
Adoree' Jackson is also only 5'10" which would violate another TT rule for CB draftees. Plus, many scouts consider him a boom-bust guy. On the other hand, many more consider him another Devin Hester, but a Devin Hester who can play CB.
Did I mention he can also play on offense?
If you're TT, do you pull the trigger on him? :-)
I want Troy Vincent, not Terrell Buckley.
But Troy Vincent was just a "solid pro" not a super star. (I'm just playing devil's advocate, you understand. :-) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz
How many difference makers does a team get a decade when you are good? Who was the last Patriots Hall of Famer on defense? Vince Wilfork?
Nick Collins was that pick and if Ted gets one more during his tenure (and it might have been Matthews) he's batting better than average. Woodson was the defensive POY once wasn't he?