How Voters Think

[MJZiggy]

They ain't trying to fix the whole works.

Of course not.

They are merely trying to get elected.

They don't give a rat's ass about your health care...once elected, they don't have to worry about their health care system either.

They sure as hell do if they get elected on a healthcare reform platform and want any hope of getting re-elected next term. Hillary wanted that HC initiative passed in 93 and I have never once heard her back off from that objective.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Romney just dropped out of the race. I don't think a guy as rich as him got rich throwing his money away.

good riddance. (actually, I don't really know what kind of man he is, he might be ok, i just didn't like him.)

[Harlan Huckleby]

I was watching a panel discussion on "Democracy Now!", the lefty news show on cable access. The panelists were all villifying Hillary as the Enemy of the PEople, because the far left (and right) operate this way - they need a bogey man to rally against. But to her credit, the host Ellen Goodman kept pointing out that Obama is identical to Hillary on nearly every position, and he takes money from many of the same corporate donors. It was fun to watch. People on the fringe don't like dealing with ambiguity.

They kept refering to the "Clinton Machine", as do many pundits. "Machine" has the connotation of corruption, as in the political machines in Chicago and Kansas City etc. in the early 20th century. It also implies that their success is driven by money and organization, rather than popular support.

Hog Warsh!

Obama has raised money at 3x the rate of Hillary of late. And the Obama campaign is built on superior organization - they have won all but one of the caucus states. Whenever the contest is a straight vote of the people, Hillary more often than not wins. He has a lot of donors, which is certainly admirable, but its important to note that he has much more affluent supporters than Hillary.

Why, this daughter of a poor Mill Worker (I think that's her story ) recently had to dip in her piggy back and pull out 5M$ of her baby-sitting money just to keep the campaign afloat.

Clinton - the voice of the little people. Down with the big money Obama Machine!!!

[MJZiggy]

Are you just hoping she's gonna be looking for a White House intern to get a little revenge on Bill? You have quite the crush!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Are you just hoping she's gonna be looking for a White House intern to get a little revenge on Bill? You have quite the crush!

I admire her strength and intelligence. She has taken a lot of shit over the years with grace and dignity - go ahead and if you want, but its true. And ya, I'd do her, might take a little K-Y jelly these days, but who am I to be picky?

[MJZiggy]

Ah, hell Harlan, most of your life is run by KY jelly anyway...

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm not against a system that covers everyone, but I think it should be based in competition and personal responsiblity to spend wisely. When you put those things together, I think industries clean themselves up.

JH, I think you are a Hillary Clinton guy and don't even know it. Clinton's healthcare plan has a good balance.

Personally, I would simply offer Socialized Medicine - meaning the government just pays the checks. And then richer people could supplement with private insurance. But this seems not to be politically feasible at this time.

Hillary expands private insurance. I think you'll like her plan. And she's kinda cute, don't you think?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Ah, hell Harlan, most of your life is run by KY jelly anyway...

true enough, I'm good to go.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think Obama should consider Clinton because she will serve him well in office.

I'm sure Obama would consider Clinton...I doubt Clinton would ever consider a VP role. She's in it to win it...she wants no part of anything less.

Well, when she teared-up in New Hampshire, she said it was because she sensed she might miss her chance to help her country. IF there is any truth to this, she'd swallow her pride and take the job. I guess we can both agree on this last statement.

[Freak Out]

Romney just dropped out of the race. I don't think a guy as rich as him got rich throwing his money away.

good riddance. (actually, I don't really know what kind of man he is, he might be ok, i just didn't like him.)

Good fucking riddance. Did you hear the speech he made after announcing he was dropping out for the good of America?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I was watching a panel discussion on "Democracy Now!", the lefty news show on cable access. The panelists were all villifying Hillary as the Enemy of the PEople, because the far left (and right) operate this way - they need a bogey man to rally against. But to her credit, the host Ellen Goodman kept pointing out that Obama is identical to Hillary on nearly every position, and he takes money from many of the same corporate donors. It was fun to watch. People on the fringe don't like dealing with ambiguity.

They kept refering to the "Clinton Machine", as do many pundits. "Machine" has the connotation of corruption, as in the political machines in Chicago and Kansas City etc. in the early 20th century. It also implies that their success is driven by money and organization, rather than popular support.

Hog Warsh!

Obama has raised money at 3x the rate of Hillary of late. And the Obama campaign is built on superior organization - they have won all but one of the caucus states. Whenever the contest is a straight vote of the people, Hillary more often than not wins. He has a lot of donors, which is certainly admirable, but its important to note that he has much more affluent supporters than Hillary.

Why, this daughter of a poor Mill Worker (I think that's her story ) recently had to dip in her piggy back and pull out 5M$ of her baby-sitting money just to keep the campaign afloat.

Clinton - the voice of the little people. Down with the big money Obama Machine!!!

The reason they hate her is she really isn't much of a democrat. She didn't take any stands against Bush.

She doesn't believe in outsider reform. She turned down the same position Obama later took because she only believed change could come from inside.

Remember, she was a REPUBLICAN in college during a time when she shoulda been a dem.

She only became a dem when Nixon got the nom over rockefeller.

Infact, her whole campaign is nixonian. His was the forgotten people..isn't that what she is saying now.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I think Obama should consider Clinton because she will serve him well in office.

I'm sure Obama would consider Clinton...I doubt Clinton would ever consider a VP role. She's in it to win it...she wants no part of anything less.

Well, when she teared-up in New Hampshire, she said it was because she sensed she might miss her chance to help her country. IF there is any truth to this, she'd swallow her pride and take the job. I guess we can both agree on this last statement.

While i want to believe her tear job was sincere....not one tear shed for dead soldiers, etc.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Most developed nations OFFER health care, but it also is often relatively pitiful coverage...not at all timely or effective. In terms of immediate care when needed, those nations you refer to often fall short. There is no point in rushing to creating a system like that.

There are a lot of issues in solving our health care system woes...just throwing out universal coverage alone is not an acceptable solution IMO. It certainly should be considered in the solution, but we need a larger bandage that also covers the over-regulation of the industry and addresses the growing complexity of insurance.

I agree 100% and I think insurance as a 3rd party lowers direct competiiton. If yoru doctor or hospital pisses you off or over charges you, you should want to go somewhere else. Natural markets have a funny way of driving prices down.

I'm not against a system that covers everyone, but I think it should be based in competition and personal responsiblity to spend wisely. When you put those things together, I think industries clean themselves up.

The problem is that insurance has no vested interest in that.

Healthcare and insurance aren't one in the same.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Remember, she was a REPUBLICAN in college during a time when she shoulda been a dem.

can't you forgive a youthful indiscretion? she came from a very republican background, not everyone has the benefit of coming from a good family.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Remember, she was a REPUBLICAN in college during a time when she shoulda been a dem.

can't you forgive a youthful indiscretion? she came from a very republican background, not everyone has the benefit of coming from a good family.

I can forgive, never forget.

[Freak Out]

Infact, her whole campaign is nixonian. His was the forgotten people..isn't that what she is saying now.

I think Edwards was using that line. But I don't pay much attention to Hillary so I could have missed it.

[Freak Out]

I was wondering today if Mac could be thinking of bringing Powell back into the picture and perhaps offering him a shot at VP?

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Infact, her whole campaign is nixonian. His was the forgotten people..isn't that what she is saying now.

I think Edwards was using that line. But I don't pay much attention to Hillary so I could have missed it.

He did as well.

But, Clinton is definitely using it.

[hoosier]

I was watching a panel discussion on "Democracy Now!", the lefty news show on cable access. The panelists were all villifying Hillary as the Enemy of the PEople, because the far left (and right) operate this way - they need a bogey man to rally against. But to her credit, the host Ellen Goodman kept pointing out that Obama is identical to Hillary on nearly every position, and he takes money from many of the same corporate donors. It was fun to watch. People on the fringe don't like dealing with ambiguity.

They kept refering to the "Clinton Machine", as do many pundits. "Machine" has the connotation of corruption, as in the political machines in Chicago and Kansas City etc. in the early 20th century. It also implies that their success is driven by money and organization, rather than popular support.

Hog Warsh!

Clinton - the voice of the little people. Down with the big money Obama Machine!!!

Whatever ethical standards Hillary may once have had, getting burned on health care back in the early 90's must have permanently scarred her, becuase she turned into just another opportunist. Take Bush's invasion of Iraq. She can't not have known that the rationales the Bushies were passing out like crazy were all bullshit. And yet she gave him free reign, knowing full well (she can't not have) that he'd take ever inch Congress gave him and then some. Why? Beacuse it was 2002/2003 and the country was fired up about terrorism and she feared that speaking out against the war would be political suicide. Even though she knew it was all based on half truths and lies. If she's not willing to risk her political life over THAT, then she's not willing to risk it over anything. That, IMO, is why the Left hates her.

This is the realist-cynical account of Hillary's post-9/11 trajectory. The other possibility is that she was Bush's dupe. Which is worse?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Whatever ethical standards Hillary may once have had, getting burned on health care back in the early 90's must have permanently scarred her, becuase she turned into just another opportunist.

opportunist? What could be more opportunist than running for president with only 3 years of national experience?

I consider her failure in delivering health care in the '90s to be perhaps the greatest feather in her cap. She knows the political/economic terrain inside out, she's THE person in the Democratic Party to lead this battle.
As I've said before, her plan is my second favorite, but its better than all the rest. (Her approach is identical to John Edward's.)

Take Bush's invasion of Iraq. She can't not have known that the rationales the Bushies were passing out like crazy were all bullshit.

I will not try to dissuade you from your black and white thinking. You are unable to see that reasonable people might form different judgements on this issue. Not going to argue the details, you aren't open to weighing them, but here's the bottom line:
1) Hillary Clinton authorized Bush to go to war.
2) Your main man John Edwards authorized Bush to go to war.
3) From comments Obama has made, its quite plausible he would have authorized Bush to go to war if he had been in the Senate.

Leaving the world of speculation, lets look at some cold facts. Obama and Clinton have an identical voting record on the Iraq War. If you want somebody who is willing to take a hard stance to defund the war, Dennis Kucinich is your man.

Even though she knew it was all based on half truths and lies.

So you believe that the 77 Senators who voted to authorize did so knowing the evidence was based on half truths & lies.
I believe you've accepted an irrational argument as a salve to your anger.