How Voters Think

[The Leaper]

Fair Tax will make people sink or swim on their own. That's the way it should be.

I don't like the Fair Tax notion. A sales tax is a regressive tax, even if you attempt to take staples out of the equation...it hurts lower income people more than higher income people.

I prefer a graduated Flat Tax...eliminate most deductions and have a one page tax return where your tax rate is based on your total income.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It occurs to me that the Wisconsin Primary is just a little over a week away. I've got to start thinking about who I'm gonna vote for. Any suggestions?

Thought you were already voting for Billary.

yes, I'm leaning slightly towards Clinton, I'm impressed that she was a lesbian during her Wesleyan University days. But I want to wait to hear what kind of tax cut Ron Paul will promise me before I decide for sure.

[MJZiggy]

Fair Tax will make people sink or swim on their own. That's the way it should be.

I don't like the Fair Tax notion. A sales tax is a regressive tax, even if you attempt to take staples out of the equation...it hurts lower income people more than higher income people.

I prefer a graduated Flat Tax...eliminate most deductions and have a one page tax return where your tax rate is based on your total income.

I agree. And P, right now it's easier for some to swim than others. You feel this way because you have a sturdy life preserver. And if you feel that your streets aren't getting plowed, that's the fault of the city, not it's impoverished people. Those streets would need plowing and the houses would need sewer whether poor people lived there or rich ones--or they stood vacant and ended up being used as crack houses. The streets still have to get plowed, but I bet your streets get plowed before theirs do.

[Freak Out]

I found this pretty funny.....

WASHINGTON — President Bush, rallying conservatives for a battle against Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, says "prosperity and peace" are at stake in the upcoming election for his successor.

"We have had good debates and soon we will have a nominee who will carry the conservative banner into this election and beyond," Bush said in prepared remarks of a speech he was to give Friday to the Conservative Political Action Conference.

"Prosperity and peace are in the balance," the president said in speech excerpts the White House released on Thursday night. "So with confidence in our vision and faith in our values, let us go forward ... fight for victory ... and keep the White House in 2008."

Bush is not expected to mention by name John McCain, who almost surely will be the GOP's presidential nominee. Conservatives are resigned to seeing McCain lead the Republican ticket, but the Arizona senator has a long history of disputes over economic and social issues with the party's right flank.

It remains unclear whether conservative voters will stay at home in November, or try to influence McCain's positions _ and his choice of a running mate. In his own defense, McCain says he is a true conservative and has lined up endorsements of many conservative political leaders.

After Republican Mitt Romney announced on Thursday that he was suspending his campaign, Bush had to pencil in minor changes to his speech, making it more forward-looking to the November election. Still, the White House says it's not time yet for Bush to formally weigh in on the election.

Instead, he is using his speech to the conservative gathering as a venue for comparing and contrasting Republican philosophies with those of GOP critics.

He defended his record on the economy, saying tax cuts contributed to a record 52 months of job creation, which just ended. Bush backed his decision to twice veto legislation that would have paved the way for taxpayer-funded embryo research, and lauded medical advances in stem cell research that would yield good results without destroying embryos.

On Iraq, the president defended his decision to send thousands more U.S. troops into Iraq.

"Our critics had a different view," he said. "They looked at rising violence in Iraq and declared the war was lost. Some concluded the surge had failed before it had even fully begun. ... We stood our ground and we are seeing the results. ... The progress in Iraq is fragile and there are tough days ahead, yet even the enemy recognizes that they are on the wrong side of events."

Bush said his administration stayed on the offense against extremists in Afghanistan because it recognized that the threat was not just a matter of law enforcement. "One commentator said most Afghans would oppose an American invasion and fight the foreign occupiers," Bush said.

Instead, Bush said the hardline Taliban regime was ousted, the Afghan people elected a new president and parliament, roads and hospitals are being built, and while Afghanistan has a long recovery ahead, the United States, NATO and other allies are working to secure the country.

Last year was the bloodiest year in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led toppling of the Taliban in 2001.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered 2,200 Marines to go to southern Afghanistan this spring. And on Thursday in the Afghan capital of Kabul, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and her British counterpart, Foreign Secretary David Miliband, made a renewed push to portray the war as winnable and worthy of international support despite a so-far-unsuccessful struggle to get more allies to commit frontline forces.

[MJZiggy]

Damn that's the funniest thing I've read all week! Thanks for a good one.

[MadScientist]

How can anyone support the democratic candidates?!?

I simply do not understand it. I'm all for equality to all, but I am NOT all for over taxation and hand outs. That's why libertarian candidates like Dr. Paul are appealing to me.

7+ years of corrupt, criminal republican rule should be enough for anyone with any sense whatsoever. As unimpressed as I am with Billary, I would vote for her in a heartbeat over any repub scum, who would continue the process of selling out my kids future to China and Saudi Arabia so that they and their friends can be even richer. If you love the USA you can't vote republican.

Personally, I am all for FairTax. It would force people to live within their means.

FairTax = tax hike for the middle class so the fucking rich pay even less. What is fair about that? Also if you think the economy is bad now, that tax plan will throw us into a depression. This whole economy is driven by middle class spending (and government spending). When you make everything cost 30% more people won't be able to buy as much and will have a massive disincentive to spend. A whole lot of businesses will go under because of it (lots of mall stores, swimming schools, dance studios, etc.). If you support this idiotic tax proposal, you must be very rich or clueless.

[Scott Campbell]

FairTax = tax hike for the middle class so the fucking rich pay even less. What is fair about that?

I love this kind of ridiculous propaganda. If you think that somebody making $1M a year pays less taxes than somebody making $30K a year, you are certifiable. Rich people pay far more in taxes than the poor and middle class - in absolute dollars per taxpayer. And they spend more and contribute more to the economy too. They often provide employment opportunities for poor and middle class people. And they are typically less of a burden on government social programs. So let's face it, they are a more valuable economic asset to our country.

Yet some communist thinking small minded individuals who can't stand the idea of everyone paying their own fair share would just as soon penalize the success of others than have to pry loose a nickel out of their own pocket. They bitch and whine about the wealthy as if anyone who has ever achieved some measure of success must have screwed over some poor slobs to get there. To these people, I suggest they quit wasting their energy on whining and begging and trying to weasel away other peoples money, and go out and earn their own money the old fashioned way. We didn't become the greatest country on the face of the earth by penalizing those who succeed.

[Partial]

Fair Tax will make people sink or swim on their own. That's the way it should be.

I don't like the Fair Tax notion. A sales tax is a regressive tax, even if you attempt to take staples out of the equation...it hurts lower income people more than higher income people.

I prefer a graduated Flat Tax...eliminate most deductions and have a one page tax return where your tax rate is based on your total income.

You get 24k to spend annually tax free. Fair Tax is great as it forces the poor to live within their means, and also doesn't punish the upper middle class who are typically small spenders yet hit with most of the tax burden.

[Partial]

Fair Tax will make people sink or swim on their own. That's the way it should be.

I don't like the Fair Tax notion. A sales tax is a regressive tax, even if you attempt to take staples out of the equation...it hurts lower income people more than higher income people.

I prefer a graduated Flat Tax...eliminate most deductions and have a one page tax return where your tax rate is based on your total income.

I agree. And P, right now it's easier for some to swim than others. You feel this way because you have a sturdy life preserver. And if you feel that your streets aren't getting plowed, that's the fault of the city, not it's impoverished people. Those streets would need plowing and the houses would need sewer whether poor people lived there or rich ones--or they stood vacant and ended up being used as crack houses. The streets still have to get plowed, but I bet your streets get plowed before theirs do.

Thats why fair tax is great. 24k is easily enough to live no tax free.

[Partial]

How can anyone support the democratic candidates?!?

I simply do not understand it. I'm all for equality to all, but I am NOT all for over taxation and hand outs. That's why libertarian candidates like Dr. Paul are appealing to me.

7+ years of corrupt, criminal republican rule should be enough for anyone with any sense whatsoever. As unimpressed as I am with Billary, I would vote for her in a heartbeat over any repub scum, who would continue the process of selling out my kids future to China and Saudi Arabia so that they and their friends can be even richer. If you love the USA you can't vote republican.

Personally, I am all for FairTax. It would force people to live within their means.

FairTax = tax hike for the middle class so the fucking rich pay even less. What is fair about that? Also if you think the economy is bad now, that tax plan will throw us into a depression. This whole economy is driven by middle class spending (and government spending). When you make everything cost 30% more people won't be able to buy as much and will have a massive disincentive to spend. A whole lot of businesses will go under because of it (lots of mall stores, swimming schools, dance studios, etc.). If you support this idiotic tax proposal, you must be very rich or clueless.

Not true. How is that true? Most of what the middle class spend is completely tax free. It is a way to punish those who frivolously spend money

[MJZiggy]

So you think all it takes to raise a family is food, huh? All the rest is frivolous.

[Freak Out]

[quote="Partial"]

Thats why fair tax is great. 24k is easily enough to live no tax free.

??? WTF are you smoking?

[GoPackGo]

[quote="Freak Out"]

Thats why fair tax is great. 24k is easily enough to live no tax free.

??? WTF are you smoking?

Partial doesn't know shit about anything he can't google.

[Freak Out]

[quote="GoPackGo"]

Thats why fair tax is great. 24k is easily enough to live no tax free.

??? WTF are you smoking?

Partial doesn't know shit about anything he can't google.

Yes he does.....but he is still young and really doesn't know just yet how tough it can be. 24 grand is shit in this day and age unless your subsistence hunting or farming.

[Partial]

24k tax free? That is about 35k taxed. That is a piece of cake to live on. Maybe not for a family, but for a single person easily. Plenty of people get by on 35k. After all, the average american family makes 42k.

That is just what isn't sales taxed. You might have to get taxed some.

We're not talking xboxs and big screens and blackberries. We're talking the essentials to get by. That's what the 24k(35k-40k in current us dollars) is for.

[Partial]

You guys are fucking nuts. My sister started at a job at 35k and paid off an apartment and had ample money left over to spare. She makes a ton more money now but she bought a car, paid off a condo, and went out and partied like a 20 something should on 35k.

Laughable.

[MJZiggy]

Was she trying to raise kids on that 35K?

[Freak Out]

Where does she live? Laughable is right. There are loads of things that come into play here man.

[Partial]

She lives in the land of taxes Milwaukee. No, she isn't raising kids. That's why you have a husband or you work hard. How many people who have kids honestly don't make 40-50 grand? If you work hard, its pretty tough not to.

As I was saying, it is irrelevant how much money you have or make. Your money isn't taxed until you spend over 24k. Interest on homes in not taxed, either.

It might throw the retail world into a bit of a funk for a brief period of time, but not really because for most expenses it will be completely devoid of tax. Not only that, but prices will be driven down due to the lack of taxes on business purchases. I don't have exact figures but I have read many compelling arguments where your middle class family ends up saving money.

I really don't think much will change beyond everyone will be forced to take some more personal responsibility. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to save money and gain 10% on it annually than to spend it when there is a 30% tax.

One of the big things that would occur is it will help the housing market by stop having companies build so many new houses as a used house purchase would not be taxed.

It has been heavily researched by economists and by all accounts there studies have shown it to have a positive effect.

[MJZiggy]

She lives in the land of taxes Milwaukee. No, she isn't raising kids. That's why you have a husband or you work hard. How many people who have kids honestly don't make 40-50 grand? If you work hard, its pretty tough not to.

You don't seriously believe that, do you? You think the grocery store checkers who stands there working their asses off all day are making 50 grand, huh? You think that'll buy them a nice condo in, say, San Francisco? How 'bout Boston?