You're more interested in a flat wage rate than a flat tax rate you commie whore.Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
You're more interested in a flat wage rate than a flat tax rate you commie whore.
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
Fairer share? You are not entitled to a percentage of my money just because you don't think that life is fair. Is it fair that I am required by law to pay 20x what other Americans have to pay in taxes. Do I get 20x their vote? Do I use 20x the resources that they do? Life isn't fair, and big government isn't going to change that.
I have no problem with paying more taxes than you, and am happy to do so. It becomes a question of how much is too much. And I take exception to the bitching by people who contribute far less to the common good and our tax base than I do because they don't feel like I've given enough. These people don't think twice about taking my money from my kids college fund and my self funded retirement program, just to make up for their own inability to contribute at the same level. It chaffes me that some of these people act like I don't deserve to keep more of my own hard earned money, even though I've contributed more in a year than they might in a lifetime.
Unlike you, I'm not suggesting stealing money from anyone. I'm proposing people keep more of what they earn. And the money we keep does not get hidden under a mattress - it gets pumped back into the economy, and there is more for private philanthropy - without all of the pitfalls of big government waste and corruption.
Scott, I agree almost entirely with you (esspecially with the inefficiency of govt. Cut out the inefficiency and everyone will have more because we'll be producing more)
However, I think there is a point where the power of wealth becomes so great that it's no longer what you do, but how much power you have to bully. Competition is lowered because there are only a few elites with the ability to control the huge markets. Warren Buffet recently said they need to find a way to tax the extremely wealhty more. He knows he got there on his own, but I think he sees many of his peers taking advantage of the power, rather than doing anything acctually brilliant (that was my impression of what he said anyway)
I think wealth should be taxed, not income. It should be a straight line wealth tax. By doing that, people who just want to sit on wealth will be taxed to the poitn where it's gone in a matter of time. They would never be able to rest. They'd have to keep earning. It would promote risk taking becuase just sitting on money would be a detriment. This would be a system where you survive based on what you are able to do in this world. I want people to get what they put in, not steam roll with what they already have or were given.
It also might create incentive for people to take their ball and go home so to speak. If you had such wealth, what's to keep you from just leaving the country? Costa Rica would be happy to let me keep more of my money, if I'd pump just a little bit of it into their economy instead of the USA's.
Too late. The cat has been out of the bag on that one for a long time. Both parties are rife with conflicts of interest because of the fund raising needed to get elected.
Scott, I admire all that you've done. YOu made the right decisions to get where you are in life. Bravo. I think my situation will be pretty good by retirement or before so I'm not complaining or pouting about the current system or anything like that. I acctually try to learn from people who made good decisions, not hate them.
I just think a wealth tax would reward the doers and risk takers more. I think it would promote the never ending effort to earn, rather than the never ending effort to steam roll. The economy would be just rolling. The poor could get up one day and work their asses off and results would be damn near immediate. The rich would have the people behind them hungry and anxious to take risks biting at their ankles. If they made a couple bad decisions they'd be down to middle class before they knew it. Basically, you'd get what you put in. I'm sure those with extreme wealth wwould apose this. Hell, if someone made better decisions, they'd be knocked off with the snap of a finger. The people who would benefit are the doctors, layers, aggressive buisnessmen, motivated, smart, hard workign and so on. . . .
That's pretty much where my philosophy comes from. Let people keep more of what they make, and they'll work that much harder to earn more. Early retirement becomes less attractive. The tax base grows. And there is more money for taking care of the truly needy, while many of those who choose poverty as a path of least resistance find that working a regular job is easier than taking money from their government.
Competing in life isn't that much different than competing in the NFL. We don't take players from the Packers and Cowboys every year to help out the crappy franchises like the Cardinals. Harlan proposes a world where everybody, and every team goes 8-8. So it's nice and "fair".
Unfortunately, that's been tried in Russia. And the league folded so to speak.
I think Warren Buffet agrees with you. He opposes the elimination of estate taxes. We already tax wealth pretty well with estate taxes. You have to be careful not to go too crazy taxing wealth, or people will take their money and leave the country.
Don't know what big government has to do with this discussion.Fairer share? You are not entitled to a percentage of my money just because you don't think that life is fair. Is it fair that I am required by law to pay 20x what other Americans have to pay in taxes. Do I get 20x their vote? Do I use 20x the resources that they do? Life isn't fair, and big government isn't going to change that.
You earlier agreed that lower income people often pay a higher percentage of their income on taxes.
Here, you are angry that you pay more in absolute dollars.
??? you just got done expressing revulsion at having to pay more than others.
Warren Buffet recently suggested something like whta I'm saying. He said the need to find a way to tax the mega wealthy more. He's brilliant and capable to compete with ideas and ambition, but I think he realizes that many of his peers are not so capable and are riding a gravy train.
Edit: haha, beat me to it scott.
For those that won in the current system, I think it would have to be implimented slowly. There has to be some reward for the good decisions that have been made up to now but eventually I think crossing over would make our economy insanely dominate in the world. Motivation, efficiency and rewards for the brilliant would be at an all time high. If you're a great doctor, a brilliant engineer or a genius scientist, this is the country you'd want to live. Everythign you do would be rewarded 10 fold rather than exploited by the person who backed you financially. It no longer would be what you have, but what you do. Scary for the established elite (george Bush for example), wonderfull for the smart and ambitious (warren Buffet for example)
I am not at all envious or negative towards the wealthy.You're more interested in a flat wage rate than a flat tax rate you commie whore.
i see a very crooked tax system where people who earn more pay a lower rate of taxes.
Don't know what big government has to do with this discussion.
You earlier agreed that lower income people often pay a higher percentage of their income on taxes.
Here, you are angry that you pay more in absolute dollars.
??? you just got done expressing revulsion at having to pay more than others.
I wasn't expressing revulsion. I was merely pointing out that there are couple of ways you could define "fair" in this situation. You're defining fair in terms of a percentage. I'm saying that your definition requires that some pay 100x more in absolute dollars than others. Now some people may not find that fair. "Fair" is subjective.
I am not at all envious or negative towards the wealthy.You're more interested in a flat wage rate than a flat tax rate you commie whore.
i see a very crooked tax system where people who earn more pay a lower rate of taxes.
Is it similarly crooked that you pay a higher percentage of income for gas than others earning more? Why are taxes so different? You typically get a quantity discount for everything else in our economy, so why should tax percentages go up as you earn more? They should go down. At some point, people have contributed enough to our government. There is nothing wrong with non government mandated private philanthropy.
Yeah, you just want more of their money.
"Fair", philosophically, has been agreed upon by most people for a very long time. The problem is in the details, especially the distortions of reality by advocates.
I think progressive taxes are fair. People who make more can afford to pay a higher rate. But I think it should be a flat tax after about 30K.
Why don't you just state what you think is fair.
OK, I'll take this as a clear statement of what you think is fair.
IT actually is rather close to how the system works.
Ya, this is true. But its not because I begrudge you your wealth. I think the tax burden on lower middle class is too much and needs to be shifted.Yeah, you just want more of their money.
You essentially are for regressive taxes, and I understand your argument for it.
If forced to choose between "best" and "fair", I'll take best every time. Like I said, I believe in the results of the 80's investment tax credits. People started business because of those so called "loopholes for the rich", and created wealth for themselves while creating jobs for others and contributing more to the tax base. I believe that set the table for the unprecedented economic growth and prosperity of the 90's.
I would not be for a flat tax unless it were accompanied by far lower government spending resulting in a lower amount of absolute dollars confiscated by the government.
Although I am tempted to support a flat tax just because it'll be easier to fill out the forms.
I am. Though I loath the terms progressive and regressive. The term progressive sounds forward thinking, and regressive has negative connotations as if the concept was somehow evil.
I also believe that a rising tide will raise all ships, and that what is good for the wealthy often ends up benefiting others. I think taking more money from rich people will entice people to retire early, or otherwise not earn (and contribute to the tax base) as much as they are capable of. And that ends up crushing our economy, and doing far more damage to the poor than many imagine.
And for the record, I believe in investing in education - as long as its efficient and void of corruption. That money comes back ten fold in that it helps create people who contribute to the tax base instead of living off of it.
Teach a man to fish.
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