smoke gets in your eyes

[HarveyWallbangers]

The smoking ban is just more bad legislation that sounds good to the electorate, so it's easy to pass.

My uncle manages local bands in the area. His business has been affected severely. Bars aren't seeing as many patrons (a smoker will smoke at home over going out to a bar to not smoke). This affects those businesses. Bar owners aren't paying for live entertainment. This affect musicians. That's affected my uncle's business. It's a good thing he's invested wisely over the years. Otherwise, he wouldn't make it. He is worried about the golden egg when he retires in 10 years though. Sure, after 25 years he could go out and try something else. Personally, I think it's easier for people to slightly adjust their lifestyles (e.g. don't go to a friggin' bar that allows smoking if it bugs you that much). I'd rather the govenment get their noses out of it. Apparently, they learned something from prohibition. They just didn't learn the right thing.

Despite their obvious flaws, the founding fathers created an awesome republican system of government based on individual rights (among other things), and the burden of personal responsibility. Our country is failing miserably on both fronts.

[packinpatland]

[quote="Deputy Nutz"]

I believe people should be able to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. There is some grey in there, but I believe having to deal with 2nd hand smoke infringes on the right of non smokers by forcing them to breath in uncomfortable, and almost certainly harmfull smoke.

I support the ban. Smokers have the right to smoke in their homes, in their cars and away from people.

It is not the concern of the smoker verse the non-smoker. It is the government coming into your establishment, place of business and telling you what you can and can't do.[/quote


If that helps you sleep better, keep thinking that.

I could really care less about smoking in public places, but have you ever heard of the slippery slope effect? You keep handing over your rights to the government pretty soon they just start taking your right without even putting it up for debate.

Thanks, I got one of those sleep number beds and they really do help. I didn't sleep real well last night though, my right shoulder has been damaged it is a pain to sleep with. I will continue to update you on my progress though.

Good one......one point for you.

[MJZiggy]

I could really care less about smoking in public places, but have you ever heard of the slippery slope effect? You keep handing over your rights to the government pretty soon they just start taking your right without even putting it up for debate.

What if you look at it more as protecting the rights of the rest of the people that the public smoker affects? I appreciate the right to breathe clean air that won't KILL ME.

Think of it this way. After they found out that not washing your hands after going to the bathroom contaminated food and caused disease, they made it mandatory for restaurant workers to wash their hands before returning to work. It used to be legal for employees to take a **** and then go back to cooking your food, should we go back to that? It infringes on the restaurant owners right to permit whatever he wants in his restaurant just like a smoking ban does...

[Freak Out]

I smoked for years before quiting 7 years ago but had to vote yes.

What's funny about this country is that most Americans will pass a tax on smokes and booze to try and force people to stop and "help" cover health care costs but would never dream pf raising a tax on gasoline to try and curb consumption and force people to park the guzzlers.

I don't know where you live, but we have a massive gas tax here--to go along with sales tax (vendor and consumer), income tax, property tax, sin tax, death tax (let's tax 50% on money that's already been taxed--just because you want to pass your money to your kids), luxury tax, marriage tax, estate tax, corportate income tax, environment affecting tax, capital gains tax, retirement tax, user fees, seat rights, parking fees, tolls, etc. Our tax burden is outrageous.

Of course, the sin tax is a great way to get people to quit smoking.

Oil money cures all here.

Locally I pay property taxes and thats about it. Of course there are user fees and such for State campground/trail parking, fishing/hunting licenses......usw, but no sales tax. Our gas tax here is very low...booze and smokes are taxed pretty high. You are correct when you say we are over taxed though...everybody wants a piece of us. One thing that irks me is if I want to appeal my property taxes I have to pay $100! Fuckers.

[SkinBasket]

What if you look at it more as protecting the rights of the rest of the people that the public smoker affects? I appreciate the right to breathe clean air that won't KILL ME.

You're still talking about a "public smoker" inside a privately owned business. PRIVATELY OWNED. Not state owned. Not owned by you, or the non-smoking American public.

You have the "right" to breathe clean air almost anywhere you go. Maybe you should consider accepting the responsibility of avoiding those very few places left where people can, and want to, smoke. There are plenty of non-smoking alternatives out there for people to express their "right" to breathing clean air.

Should we also ban insulation in houses because if you crawl up in your attic and stuff your face in it, it's bad for you?

[MJZiggy]

My attic insulation has benefits. Remind me of the benefits of smoke again?

[Zool]

What if you look at it more as protecting the rights of the rest of the people that the public smoker affects? I appreciate the right to breathe clean air that won't KILL ME.

You're still talking about a "public smoker" inside a privately owned business. PRIVATELY OWNED. Not state owned. Not owned by you, or the non-smoking American public.

You have the "right" to breathe clean air almost anywhere you go. Maybe you should consider accepting the responsibility of avoiding those very few places left where people can, and want to, smoke. There are plenty of non-smoking alternatives out there for people to express their "right" to breathing clean air.

Should we also ban insulation in houses because if you crawl up in your attic and stuff your face in it, it's bad for you?

No, but if someone was walking around blowing it in peoples faces I would say yes. If you want cancer, smoke up. Dont force others to breath in your toxic shit. You can just as easily go home as the people who dont smoke.

They make smoking bars for a reason.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My uncle manages local bands in the area. His business has been affected severely. Bars aren't seeing as many patrons (a smoker will smoke at home over going out to a bar to not smoke). This affects those businesses.

Some people used to make a good living selling fireworks. Or selling radiation machines that let you see the bones in your feet in shoe stores.

The world changes, and sometimes specific businesses suffer. The statistics are that smoking bans are a net boost to restaurant/entertainment industries, but even if you don't want to believe this, the economic losses of a few businesses can not trump what the public sees as their important interests.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I looked-up a recent survey of economic impact of smoking bans. I was repeating what I read from the past, but it appears I am wrong and smoking bans are hurting bars. Employment at bars drops 4% to 16% after bans.

http://stlouisfed.org/publications/r...oking-ban.html

[HarveyWallbangers]

They make smoking bars for a reason.

What smoking bars? There aren't any in Minnesota. They have a state-wide ban.

[Zool]

With a smoking ban should come smoking specific bars. I guess coming from Cali, there were smoking bars all over the place. People would walk from a non-smoking bar, down to the smoking bar for a drink and a couple smokes, then migrate back.

The system has been in place for a long time in CA, and bars there are far from hurting. I've stood outside in enough lines to know that much.

[RashanGary]

My attic insulation has benefits. Remind me of the benefits of smoke again?

Some people like it and as much as you think you know what people should and shouldn't do/like, nobody has that power over anyone else.

If someone enjoys smoking, that is a benefit to them. I'm all for bans on places people need to go but bans on bars seem over the top. It's a personal choice to go or not to go.

[Zool]

My attic insulation has benefits. Remind me of the benefits of smoke again?

Some people like it and as much as you think you know what people should and shouldn't do/like, nobody has that power over anyone else.

If someone enjoys smoking, that is a benefit to them. I'm all for bans on places people need to go but bans on bars seem over the top. It's a personal choice to go or not to go.

Exactly, if you cant smoke there, dont go there.

[MJZiggy]

My attic insulation has benefits. Remind me of the benefits of smoke again?

Some people like it and as much as you think you know what people should and shouldn't do/like, nobody has that power over anyone else.

If someone enjoys smoking, that is a benefit to them. I'm all for bans on places people need to go but bans on bars seem over the top. It's a personal choice to go or not to go.

How bout smokers go there and just don't smoke inside where it's enclosed and every other person there has to suck up their smoke?

[RashanGary]

And coming from someone who smoked from age 15-20 and quit for the last 6 years, I can say that there are real benefits to smoking.

1. It gives a satisfying uphoric feeling
2. It's comforting
3. If you smoke it tastes good


I obviously thought the downs outnumbered the ups, but I'm not going to shove my priorities down someone elses throat. I don't want them shoving 2nd hand smoke down my throat at schools, airports, grocery stores or governement buildings either.

[Deputy Nutz]

Smoking has been allowed in privately owned business for a very long time.

That's because at the time no one knew or would admit that the shit can KILL YOU!!! Now they know better and don't want the public exposed to it.

Wait a minute, you are telling me that people didn't realize that enhaling smoke was bad for them? Sucking on something that is burning just tells me it is probably going to be harmful to me. I knew smoking could kill you 20 some years ago but they still let you smoke in movies and on airplanes.

[MJZiggy]

apparently you should have shared your wisdom, because in the past it was believed (advertising sells, baby!!) that smoking was cool and fun and not bad for you at all. Even when evidence to the contrary was mounting, the tobacco industry failed to share what is common knowledge today. That's why they got their asses sued off...

[SkinBasket]

My attic insulation has benefits. Remind me of the benefits of smoke again?

You're right. We should outlaw everything that doesn't have a clear "benefit."

You ever see the movie demolition man?

[Deputy Nutz]

apparently you should have shared your wisdom, because in the past it was believed (advertising sells, baby!!) that smoking was cool and fun and not bad for you at all. Even when evidence to the contrary was mounting, the tobacco industry failed to share what is common knowledge today. That's why they got their asses sued off...

I don't know about you, but the advertising did work because peer pressure is a motherfucker, I don't think I would have ever touched a cigerette after I took one from my dad when I was 9. If it was so refreshing and cool, why did I gag all over myself? I knew right then that this really couldn't be good for someone when the hot burning smoke choked all the oxygen out of my lungs. Clean and refreshing? Better smoke menthol.

[Zool]

My attic insulation has benefits. Remind me of the benefits of smoke again?

You're right. We should outlaw everything that doesn't have a clear "benefit."

You ever see the movie demolition man?

Wesley Snipes looking like Dennis Rodman? Thats gold right there.

"In the future all restaurants are Taco Bell"