Wisconsin Primary

[MJZiggy]

(A good friend of mine, a kindly 85-year-old lady/next door neighbor, always says that Jesus Christ is the source of her hope. That has always been her word, hope.)

Depends what she's hoping for--question is, is the kindly neighbor happy?

See, I can't vote in the primaries, so what I'm hoping for is that y'all give me someone to vote for who's not an idiot like the last guy we had in office.

(and for the record, in the 2K election, I lived in Maryland, voted in Florida (because we'd just moved and were still registered there) by absentee and want it noted that I had my chad until we moved into this house and it got lost in the move. And I was gonna have it framed, too.)

[rdanomly]

I still think Hillary wins the nom and takes barack as vp. Or could be vice versa.

I could see Hillary picking Obama as her VP. Helps her solidify the black vote and she picks up some of the younger crowd. However, I'm not sure how happy a lot of these first-time voters will be voting for their guy who ended up getting 2nd place.

If Obama gets the nomination he'd have no need for Hillary, IMO. She'd bring him the Hispanic vote, but the type of people she attracts will be at the polls, regardless of who the candidate is. Obama would be better picking a guy like Biden that makes up for the areas that he lacks in (foreign policy, namely).

Still, it remains to be seen whether any of the two are willing to accept 2nd.

I doubt it would happen, but being stuck here in the Hoosier state, I would be pretty psyched about Obama reaching out to Sen. Lugar. He's got tons of credibility, has done quite a bit with non-proliferation, and is little 'c' conservative, not bull shitting, 'C' conservative. I think our country needs some big ideas, but there are also tough decisions (read: cuts in funding for non-performing/under performing programs) that a rational fiscal conservative would be well suited to work with a pie in the sky big thinker/dreamer. Just some thoughts from an out-of-stater.

[Harlan Huckleby]

(A good friend of mine, a kindly 85-year-old lady/next door neighbor, always says that Jesus Christ is the source of her hope. That has always been her word, hope.)

Depends what she's hoping for--question is, is the kindly neighbor happy?

She's as happy as a moonie. As serene as Tyrone with a fat crack rock.

She's a very together person, I understand that religion can be good for people. And one can't help but notice how cheerful Ballhawk has been since he invited Barack into his heart.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I would be pretty psyched about Obama reaching out to Sen. Lugar. He's got tons of credibility

That would be an awesome choice. Too good to be true, tho.

It's interesting to note that Obama currently has support among republicans AND among moveon.org types. How can this be?

[The Leaper]

It's interesting to note that Obama currently has support among republicans AND among moveon.org types. How can this be?

Because few republicans realize that Obama is a far left liberal. He's never been put under a serious evaluation in the media in terms of his views and agenda.

Most Americans want change...not just from Bush, but all the political crooks in Washington. Obama has touted change as his goal. That brings a lot of people to support you before they actually have to vote for you.

Obama, however, has very little practical experience in actually making change happen in Washington. If he becomes the nominee, his record and experience are going to be heavily attacked in a presidential campaign...items which he has been able to avoid to this point, outside of Bill Clinton diatribes.

By the time November rolls around, there won't be many Republicans supporting Obama/Hillary or many Democrats supporting McCain. The battleground will be over the moderates...which is why McCain actually stands a chance against whoever the Dems put out there.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

It's interesting to note that Obama currently has support among republicans AND among moveon.org types. How can this be?

Because few republicans realize that Obama is a far left liberal. He's never been put under a serious evaluation in the media in terms of his views and agenda.

Most Americans want change...not just from Bush, but all the political crooks in Washington. Obama has touted change as his goal. That brings a lot of people to support you before they actually have to vote for you.

Obama, however, has very little practical experience in actually making change happen in Washington. If he becomes the nominee, his record and experience are going to be heavily attacked in a presidential campaign...items which he has been able to avoid to this point, outside of Bill Clinton diatribes.

By the time November rolls around, there won't be many Republicans supporting Obama/Hillary or many Democrats supporting McCain. The battleground will be over the moderates...which is why McCain actually stands a chance against whoever the Dems put out there.

McCain ain't picking up mods with his kowtowing to the religious right, immigration policy and stand on reproductive rights.

Whatever mods he does pick up will be less than the far right that won't vote for him.

[SkinBasket]

Most Americans want change...not just from Bush, but all the political crooks in Washington. Obama has touted change as his goal. That brings a lot of people to support you before they actually have to vote for you.

I remember seeing this while at Madison when Nader came to town and all the MTV watching hipster undergrads went to his speaking engagement all fired up about their newest counterculture hero. Then he started talking. And people started leaving. Some even booed when they finally learned what his stances where on certain issues.

Sometimes the idea is much different and sexier than the reality. Obama knows the answer is "yes we can." He just has no idea what the question is, but he's gonna ride out all these excited youth for all it's worth. Then, like ObamaGirl, they'll stay home and smoke a bong instead of voting.

[swede]

Skin,

for a twisted dude you certainly are insightful.

I read this whole thread and you've made the only two points worth noting--

...that unregistered voters have no business voting in the primary process as it is presently composed.

...Obama supporters will be home in November trying to text message their vote into the Obama website. You know, like, wow, he's so smart and everything.

The 3rd grader post was a little scary.

[BallHawk]

The 3rd grader post was a little scary.

High point of the thread, IMO.

[Partial]

...Obama supporters will be home in November trying to text message their vote into the Obama website. You know, like, wow, he's so smart and everything.

Bump for Ballhawk.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Skin,

for a twisted dude you certainly are insightful.

I read this whole thread and you've made the only two points worth noting--

...that unregistered voters have no business voting in the primary process as it is presently composed.

...Obama supporters will be home in November trying to text message their vote into the Obama website. You know, like, wow, he's so smart and everything.

The 3rd grader post was a little scary.

I resent your post.

Are you trying to say santa wouldn't unite all americans?

You'll be noting Tyrone's prognisticating powers regarding latinos the day after the election.

The repubs are shooting themselves in the foot over this. 2/3s of this country believe in a path to citizenship.

[BallHawk]

...Obama supporters will be home in November trying to text message their vote into the Obama website. You know, like, wow, he's so smart and everything.

Bump for Ballhawk.

Hey, the youth vote is going to have to step up sometime. Is this the candidate that finally gets them off Facebook and into the polling booth? I can't say for certain, but Obama certainly appeals to the youth more than Gore or Kerry could/did.

Of course, counting on the youth vote is pointless. It's a freakin' tease. Every year we say "This'll be the year we'll see the youth vote" and then, the day after election day, polling numbers show the youth vote was the same as it had been last election and elections before that.

I think Obama is more personable than candidates in recent memory, at least ones that appealed to the younger crowd. It's still possible, maybe even likely, that it won't make a damn of a difference, but Obama's got his fingered crossed, as do I, that the youth vote will finally wake up this year.

[Partial]

Certainly have changed your tune since last night.

[BallHawk]

Certainly have changed your tune since last night.

How have I changed my tune?

[swede]

The writers of the constitution disliked the influence of political parties and attempted to create an election process that marginalized their power.

Of course, parties couldn't be banned outright as such a ban inhibited free speech and freedom of assembly.

One constitutional idea was to give state governments the power to appoint a slate of electors that would convene and elect a President. Once our young country was underway a few things happened very, very quickly. First, two political parties immediately formed to support either a strong federal government (Democrats) or a greater emphasis on personal liberties and state's rights (Whigs). [Nice try at eliminating political parties founding fathers, but politicians need to unite to consolidate influence and political parties, apparently, are the inevitable result.] Second, in a rush to democratize the process, every state eventually ceded the right to choose the electors by allowing their constituencies to pick the choice of the electors in public Presidential elections.

(Remember in Florida in 2000 that the AG of FL called quits to the endless hanging chad debates because the constitution compelled her to either send a slate of electoral votes to the Congress or have the votes from Florida go uncounted. It is the electoral votes after all, constitutionally, that elect a President and not the popular vote of the nation. The Florida Supreme Court told her to desist, but the US Supreme Court, in a narrow decision, allowed her to quit counting and send Dubya's votes on up to Washington. Oh those were the days. The scales fell from my eyes and I saw who defended the constitution and who did not.)

[Joemailman]

They certainly can vote any way they want. I think it would not be wise for them to hand the nomination to a candidate who received a clear minority of the delegates from the primaries and caucuses. The only way they should do that, in my opinion, would be if there were special circumstances, such as a scandal, which would make a candidate clearly unelectable.

You contradict yourself. You say they are free to vote any way they want. Then you say just as long as they rubber stamp what the pledge delegates decide.

No contradiction at all. I concede there is nothing in the rules preventing super delegates from overturning the will of the voters. I still don't believe they should do it.

[Joemailman]

Dear Obama Supporters:

Please list 3 people you would rather see become president than Obama.

I suggest if you find this difficult or impossible, you may be a member of a cult of personality.

(A good friend of mine, a kindly 85-year-old lady/next door neighbor, always says that Jesus Christ is the source of her hope. That has always been her word, hope.)

Feingold, Edwards, Ed Rendell, Joe Biden.

[SkinBasket]

The 3rd grader post was a little scary.

Not as scary as BallHawk pretending to be a teenager.

(Remember in Florida in 2000 that the AG of FL called quits to the endless hanging chad debates because the constitution compelled her to either send a slate of electoral votes to the Congress or have the votes from Florida go uncounted. It is the electoral votes after all, constitutionally, that elect a President and not the popular vote of the nation. The Florida Supreme Court told her to desist, but the US Supreme Court, in a narrow decision, allowed her to quit counting and send Dubya's votes on up to Washington. Oh those were the days. The scales fell from my eyes and I saw who defended the constitution and who did not.)

The other way to look at that was that the vote was counted once, then Florida's Dem machinery did everything in their power to change the election rules post election including having the Democratic SSC ignore legislated law. All the US Supreme Court said, was first, by a 7-2 majority, that the whole fucked up process down there was not constitutional, and second, in the 5-4 decision that "no. you cannot unconstitutionally change the rules after the game's been played, especially when it involves ignoring the state legislature and the entire concept of checks and balances in the three branches of government."

Some people blame the US Supreme Court for handing Bush the election. All they decided is that the Florida Supreme Court could not act unconstitutionally in an effort to find 550 votes for Al Gore.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Some people blame the US Supreme Court for handing Bush the election. All they decided is that the Florida Supreme Court could not act unconstitutionally in an effort to find 550 votes for Al Gore.

Several investigations have shown that Bush was going to win even if a recount was done. So in that sense, the Supreme Court decision didn't matter.

The U.S. Supreme Court contradicted the Florida Supreme Court, saying 5-4 that doing a recount was unconstitutional. This was an outrageous, politically motivated action by the 5 members of the Supreme Court that fancy themselves as enemies of judicial activism.
The court disgraced themselves, it's a low point that will be remembered like the Dred Scott pro-slavery decision.

[Harlan Huckleby]

No contradiction at all. I concede there is nothing in the rules preventing super delegates from overturning the will of the voters. I still don't believe they should do it.

If the Super Delegates have an ethical obligation to rubber stamp the pledge delegates, then they serve zero purpose. This is NOT the purpose of Super Delegates, they were invented precisely to contradict the pledge delegates where their judgement deemed it necessary.

If the Super Delegates were created to be rubber stampers in a divided field, that pupose could have been accomplished more directly & simply by lowering the delegate threshold for nomination.

You are rewriting the spirit of the rules.