I sure hope you are kidding with that statement. We have had many, many candidates as well or better qualified than that. For example, George Bush I:Originally Posted by 4and12to12and4
Member of U.S. House of Representatives
U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
Chief Liaison Officer to China (since we did not officially recognize China, he couldn't be the "Ambassador")
Director of the C.I.A.
Vice President for eight years.
HOFer
4 & 12,
I'm guessing most of the books you've read are of the Chomsky variety. Would you have been as excited if it had been Condi Rice and Elizabeth Dole battling it out?
One Hundred Percent on point. Thank You. I just hate that in this day and age we have to keep quiet about the most essential points in life, because people can't talk reasonably without being offended. It's a sad state. I was taught at an early age not to talk politics or religion. I abided by that for years, and then said f it. Why should I shut my mouth about the most important things in life because someone might get mad and be an asshole. If that is the result, so be it, they will know how I feel, and that's all I care. If we can't enlighten one another, then why even speak. I don't offend easily, so if who I'm speaking to does, that is he or she's problem. It's called maturity.I understand a lot of the points you are making, but your last entry has me wondering if you like to frustrate yourself on purpose? I will use one of my famous quotes in this situation, "talking politics with people is like masturbating with a cheese grater, slightly amusing, but mostly painful."I had no idea you could make such sweeping generalizations based off two sentences. Interact with people much?Jesus, I had no idea so many conservatives were on this site. Wake up and read a book people.My point said much more coherently than I could have made it. Its all about the least smelly turd this year.
Wow, didn't wanna go head to head with you, Zool, I like to stay in good with commishes, but, I have spent more hours of my life reading and debating these issues than you can imagine. Interact with people much? Way too much actually. Makes you realize how narrowminded people are to their own situations. Wish I interacted less.
"...one thing about me during the course of a game, I get emotional and say things my grandmother lets me know about later. But nobody wants to win on that field anymore than I do, no one." Brett Favre
I'm not going to fight about politics; truth be told I should have never posted in this thread as arguing about politics is frustrating and pointless because nobody's view ever changes. Personally I've seen little from Hillary that would allow me to entrust a country in here hands, but that is just me.How on earth is Hillary not qualified. She was the first lady for eight years, and has been a senator ever since. She's probably more qualified than any nominee in America's history.I just want good candidates; not too excited about this group. I fall more to Harv's view here. It'd be cool to have a female or minority president. But I'd want them to be very qualified. This year's group is the worst I can remember. Harv must be older than me; I hardly remember Carter or FordWow. I can't believe you are down playing the importance of this country choosing a black man or female as our leader. It's not about the issues this year, it's about a nation overcoming hundreds of years of segragation. Remind yourself of how women and blacks have been are still being treated in this country and around the world, and then tell me your "concern" is whether we get a universal health care system. I'm not saying I believe a damn word Hillary or Obama is saying, it matters not, all politicians are full of shit and bought by lobbyists, this election is about America proving to itself that we finally can act PUBLICALLY on our "belief" that all are created equal, bar none. Don't down play this historic time, it may change us as a nation in a positive way more than you can imagine, and I believe if one of the two become president, it will.
With that being said, I had this humorous email sent to me and seeing you think the world of Hillary I figured I'd post it for your entertainment.
I'll let you blast me for the post at will; it was emailed to me from a buddy in New York.
I'll retire now from here.
Cheers,
B
In a news conference Deanna Favre announced she will be the starting QB for the Packers this coming Sunday. Deanna asserts that she is qualified to be starting QB because she has spent the past 16 years married to Brett while he played QB for the Packers. During this period of time she became familiar with the definition of a corner blitz, and is now completely comfortable with other terminology of the Packers offense. A survey of Packers fans shows that 50% of those polled supported the move.
Does this sounds idiotic and unbelievable to you? Well, Hillary Clinton makes the same claims as to why she is qualified to be President and 50% of democrats polled agreed. She has never run a City, County, or State. When told Hillary Clinton has experience because she has 8 years in the white house, Dick Morris stated "so has the pastry chef".
LIFE IS ABOUT CHAMPIONSHIPS; I JUST REALIZED THIS. The MILWAUKEE BUCKS have won the same number of championships over the past 50 years as the Green Bay Packers. Ten years from now, who will have more championships, and who will be the fart in the wind ?
I'm not trying to start anything tonight. I'll save that for tomorrow. But calling me a conservative, you couldn't be further off base if you tried. Especially based off what I said. Thats quite a reach. I'm also not a liberal. I'm one of those crazies that decides a candidate based off what their actions, not which party backs them in the election.I had no idea you could make such sweeping generalizations based off two sentences. Interact with people much?Jesus, I had no idea so many conservatives were on this site. Wake up and read a book people.My point said much more coherently than I could have made it. Its all about the least smelly turd this year.
Wow, didn't wanna go head to head with you, Zool, I like to stay in good with commishes, but, I have spent more hours of my life reading and debating these issues than you can imagine. Interact with people much? Way too much actually. Makes you realize how narrowminded people are to their own situations. Wish I interacted less.
And as a few have said already, this years choices are not what I would call enticing. Maybe i need to preface everything with an IMO?
That is humorous, but if you actually think you made a valid point there, I have lost complete respect for you. I don't "think the world of Hillary", if you read my post you will realize I am saying that if a black man or woman becomes President, it will change so many ignorant stereotypes in this nation. That analogy is exactly what it is suppose to be ... a joke. The comparisons are ridiculously off base. This woman has twenty times more political experience than Jack kennedy had, and she didn't just sit and eat JuJU beans while watching Bill run the country. She KNOWS the Senate and the White House backwards and forwards and knows how to deal with legislation. She is extremely intelligent and has Senate experience. Do I trust her? I don't know. But I trust her as much as I trust any other candidate. They are all full of shit to a point, which is why I figure we are better off with her, because if nothing else, we will have made a national statement that gender no longer matters. And that is a HUGE statement.I'm not going to fight about politics; truth be told I should have never posted in this thread as arguing about politics is frustrating and pointless because nobody's view ever changes. Personally I've seen little from Hillary that would allow me to entrust a country in here hands, but that is just me.How on earth is Hillary not qualified. She was the first lady for eight years, and has been a senator ever since. She's probably more qualified than any nominee in America's history.I just want good candidates; not too excited about this group. I fall more to Harv's view here. It'd be cool to have a female or minority president. But I'd want them to be very qualified. This year's group is the worst I can remember. Harv must be older than me; I hardly remember Carter or FordWow. I can't believe you are down playing the importance of this country choosing a black man or female as our leader. It's not about the issues this year, it's about a nation overcoming hundreds of years of segragation. Remind yourself of how women and blacks have been are still being treated in this country and around the world, and then tell me your "concern" is whether we get a universal health care system. I'm not saying I believe a damn word Hillary or Obama is saying, it matters not, all politicians are full of shit and bought by lobbyists, this election is about America proving to itself that we finally can act PUBLICALLY on our "belief" that all are created equal, bar none. Don't down play this historic time, it may change us as a nation in a positive way more than you can imagine, and I believe if one of the two become president, it will.
With that being said, I had this humorous email sent to me and seeing you think the world of Hillary I figured I'd post it for your entertainment.
I'll let you blast me for the post at will; it was emailed to me from a buddy in New York.
I'm done in here.
Cheers,
B
In a news conference Deanna Favre announced she will be the starting QB for the Packers this coming Sunday. Deanna asserts that she is qualified to be starting QB because she has spent the past 16 years married to Brett while he played QB for the Packers. During this period of time she became familiar with the definition of a corner blitz, and is now completely comfortable with other terminology of the Packers offense. A survey of Packers fans shows that 50% of those polled supported the move.
Does this sounds idiotic and unbelievable to you? Well, Hillary Clinton makes the same claims as to why she is qualified to be President and 50% of democrats polled agreed. She has never run a City, County, or State. When told Hillary Clinton has experience because she has 8 years in the white house, Dick Morris stated "so has the pastry chef".
"...one thing about me during the course of a game, I get emotional and say things my grandmother lets me know about later. But nobody wants to win on that field anymore than I do, no one." Brett Favre
Well, the FEW here that have spoken must not understand history. How can anyone act as if this isn't an unbelievable time in our nation's history. A WOMAN and A BLACK MAN are runnig and winning the primaries. To simply state that this election is 'hohum' nothing special, or noone that excites you speaks volumes.I'm not trying to start anything tonight. I'll save that for tomorrow. But calling me a conservative, you couldn't be further off base if you tried. Especially based off what I said. Thats quite a reach. I'm also not a liberal. I'm one of those crazies that decides a candidate based off what their actions, not which party backs them in the election.I had no idea you could make such sweeping generalizations based off two sentences. Interact with people much?Jesus, I had no idea so many conservatives were on this site. Wake up and read a book people.My point said much more coherently than I could have made it. Its all about the least smelly turd this year.
Wow, didn't wanna go head to head with you, Zool, I like to stay in good with commishes, but, I have spent more hours of my life reading and debating these issues than you can imagine. Interact with people much? Way too much actually. Makes you realize how narrowminded people are to their own situations. Wish I interacted less.
Same as I then. Good to hear.
And as a few have said already, this years choices are not what I would call enticing. Maybe i need to preface everything with an IMO?
"...one thing about me during the course of a game, I get emotional and say things my grandmother lets me know about later. But nobody wants to win on that field anymore than I do, no one." Brett Favre
So you picked your least smelly turd specifically off gender to make a point? In an earlier post you said that people should "Just look in the mirror and know that you're opinions are based on truth and not bias." You're actually biased against white males if I'm reading you correctly.
"I can see by the few reactions I am getting here that most here are just like most people I deal with every day. You are white males in America and love it."
Excuse me while I pull out the silver spoon to reply to this one.
There something wrong with candidates that like beans?
"I've got one word for you- Dallas, Texas, Super Bowl"- Jermichael Finley
I'm really confused as to what posts you're reading. No one said they didnt like the candidates because they are black or female. There's a very real chance that we'll have a woman or black man in the drivers seat next, but that doesnt mean that I like most of their views. If Obama was white and Hillary was a man, it wouldn't change my mind one bit. I won't vote for change for the sake of change when the country has some very serious issues right now.Well, the FEW here that have spoken must not understand history. How can anyone act as if this isn't an unbelievable time in our nation's history. A WOMAN and A BLACK MAN are runnig and winning the primaries. To simply state that this election is 'hohum' nothing special, or noone that excites you speaks volumes.I'm not trying to start anything tonight. I'll save that for tomorrow. But calling me a conservative, you couldn't be further off base if you tried. Especially based off what I said. Thats quite a reach. I'm also not a liberal. I'm one of those crazies that decides a candidate based off what their actions, not which party backs them in the election.I had no idea you could make such sweeping generalizations based off two sentences. Interact with people much?Jesus, I had no idea so many conservatives were on this site. Wake up and read a book people.My point said much more coherently than I could have made it. Its all about the least smelly turd this year.
Wow, didn't wanna go head to head with you, Zool, I like to stay in good with commishes, but, I have spent more hours of my life reading and debating these issues than you can imagine. Interact with people much? Way too much actually. Makes you realize how narrowminded people are to their own situations. Wish I interacted less.
Same as I then. Good to hear.
And as a few have said already, this years choices are not what I would call enticing. Maybe i need to preface everything with an IMO?
Let me sum it up, it is ground breaking that a black man or woman is going to win a democratic nomination for the first time in the history of this country. It is pretty amazing regardless of what you think of there qualifications. The world in the United States bubble is a changing.
4th, you need to chill you want others to be respectful and decent when talking politics, I think you might be walking a fine line between exuberance of your expressed views and disrespect for what others are trying to convey.
Apparently, I was already voting for Presidents when most of you were born. I experienced the civil rights movement first hand, riots, demonstrations, tear gas and all. The fact that many now take a "hohum" attitude to the minority presidential candidates is an unequivocal indicator that the country has passed the sterotypes that existed. The fact that people slough it off is a GOOD thing. The minority candidates SHOULD be treated just like any other candidate.
The truely remarkable times were when minorities were first becoming mayors of major cities, legislators, judges, CEOs, etc. When some first dared to even announce candidacy for President. Many of us think it is nothing special now because of those early pioneers, and the fact that we encounter minorities of all types in positions of power and influence every day. It is nothing special because the world has seen the Margret Thatchers and others on the international political scene for years.
It shocks me that you would think living in the White House somehow is vast experience when compared to the many candidates we have had with varied experience for many years and/or EXTENSIVE legislative experience. The fact is that Clinton and Obama are not very experienced at all.
I'm not saying there are not still prejudices, there always will be, and not just for women and minorities.
When we elect a minority or woman and its no longer a big deal, then you'll know we've arrived.
There was more controversy in 1960 over that fact that Kennedy was Catholic than there is today about a female and a black candidate. I look at that as a very good thing.
HOFer
That's because they're just a woman and a black man. If they elected Kennedy, he might have had to listen to the POPE!!!
"Greatness is not an act... but a habit.Greatness is not an act... but a habit." -Greg Jennings
You are making Ty very jealous.
I agree with every point you make, but Patler, you have to admit that regardless of how far women and minorities have come in this day and age, it is a HUGE step if we actually elect either or as the leader of the most powerful country in the world. I mean, look how big a deal it was when Coach Dungy won the Superbowl That was a friggin' football game. This is arguably the greatest country in written history (besides ancient Rome). That is why am so pasionate about this. In a country run by white men, where even Tiger Woods had to overcome racial indifference, I am in utter shock that these two are even running, let alone winning the primaries. It is truly an amazing time in American history. That is all I am saying, and it seems as if some here don't realize it, or are opposed to it as so many of my racist friends are. Example, my wife has always told me that she doesn't want my daughters to marry a black man because "it would be a harder life for them". That argument had more weight 15 years ago, yet even then I knew she said it because she was racist. She still uses that argument today, and it's actually funny to me. That's why I suggested those here to look in the mirror and see why you really don't think it's a big deal that these two are so close to history, just look in the mirror.Apparently, I was already voting for Presidents when most of you were born. I experienced the civil rights movement first hand, riots, demonstrations, tear gas and all. The fact that many now take a "hohum" attitude to the minority presidential candidates is an unequivocal indicator that the country has passed the sterotypes that existed. The fact that people slough it off is a GOOD thing. The minority candidates SHOULD be treated just like any other candidate.
The truely remarkable times were when minorities were first becoming mayors of major cities, legislators, judges, CEOs, etc. When some first dared to even announce candidacy for President. Many of us think it is nothing special now because of those early pioneers, and the fact that we encounter minorities of all types in positions of power and influence every day. It is nothing special because the world has seen the Margret Thatchers and others on the international political scene for years.
It shocks me that you would think living in the White House somehow is vast experience when compared to the many candidates we have had with varied experience for many years and/or EXTENSIVE legislative experience. The fact is that Clinton and Obama are not very experienced at all.
I'm not saying there are not still prejudices, there always will be, and not just for women and minorities.
"...one thing about me during the course of a game, I get emotional and say things my grandmother lets me know about later. But nobody wants to win on that field anymore than I do, no one." Brett Favre
For the record, I don't think it's a big deal. Yet. Is it a good thing that we have a woman and an African-American running for the highest office in the land? Absolutely. Is it significant? Definitely. However, I don't consider it a big deal until they win (as you said in the first sentence). There's an assumption in here that I'm not willing to make yet, that we as a country have come far enough that it really doesn't matter anymore. Just because these two are leading the primaries in the Democratic Party (which has a strong base in both women and African-Americans) doesn't mean it applies to the rest of the country. Have we come a long way since the sixties? Yes. Are we there yet? We'll find out. I personally still think there might be enough closet racism and bigotry in this country to keep either Hillary or Obama out of office. How many people are going to come out of the woodwork with the "Anything but a black man/woman" attitude? What does it say about the country if Barack or Hillary run and lose, or worse yet, become another RFK?
I'll reserve my excitement until November 5th.
Sorry, I disagree. It is not a huge step. It is just the next step. There has been a protracted progression leading to the eventual election of a woman or a minority, whenever it finally occurs. The truly huge steps were taken years ago when women and minorities first became legitimate political figures. Once that happened, it was just a matter of time until one would be elected President. The fact that one most likely will be elected this year is merely anecdotal.
have to say I completely agree with Patler.
It's good to see a black or broad in the presidency, valuable symbolically.
But after all the shouting and celebrating is over, it's not going to change that much. It's not that critical whether the breakthrough is this year or 20 years from now. The broader movement is far more important.
India had a female leader 30 years ago. Didn't put an end to widows being burned to death on the funeral pyre of their husbands.
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