"No Child" leaves children behind

[packinpatland]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Did they put her in an inclusionary environment, in special ed classes, or some other model?

She was in inclusive classes that were appropriate, some special ed, and alot of one on one tutoring, and also a one on one aide, until high school....she was able to walk on her own by then.

[hoosier]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Did they put her in an inclusionary environment, in special ed classes, or some other model?

She was in inclusive classes that were appropriate, some special ed, and alot of one on one tutoring, and also a one on one aide, until high school....she was able to walk on her own by then.

We've had a hell of a time getting our local school district in IN to comply with federal legislation on inclusion. Their default mode remains the same as the 1970's--keeping all the special needs kids together, which of course rules out their being in the same classrooms as typically developing kids. There's a lot of variation on educational philosophy from state to state, and I would have assumed CT would be more of a leader on inclusion rather than a dinosaur like Indiana.

[LL2]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Is this the daughter that will be in the next Indiana Jones movie? If so, she definitely has special gifts.

[pacfan]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Is the casino money used for education, in lieu of the state funding for education, or for something else?

[Scott Campbell]

I like the concept of vouchers.

There is nothing wrong with vouchers in principle, I don't mind blending this option in. I question whether the people who support vouchers have a commitment to improving public education. If we give up on public schools, it will lead to even more drastic inequality in opportunity.

I don't believe in giving up on public schools, and only back vouchers for 50% of the cost savings from not sending your kid through public school. So the public school system gets to keep the other 50% from that kid even though they don't have to educate him/her.

[packinpatland]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Is this the daughter that will be in the next Indiana Jones movie? If so, she definitely has special gifts.

No, my middle daughter was cast as the extra..........she was just in the right place as the right time...........New Haven

[packinpatland]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Is the casino money used for education, in lieu of the state funding for education, or for something else?

Alot of years ago, when the casinos where first established, this deal was worked out...........now they 'throw' the money into the general pot. No one is quite sure how much exactly gets doled out to the school systems.

[Partial]

I was thinking about this the other day and it occurred to me that docking the schools needed cash for lack of performance was doing it backwards. Instead, I think they should be rewarding the teachers (notice I said the teachers and not the school) for improvements in the rates of college admissions for academically struggling areas. Maybe give the teachers the flexibility to decide how to best inspire their classes within the outline of the curricula. They know improvement means an extra 5K in their pocket at the end of the year, maybe they will be inspired all the way down to the elementary level to teach and expect excellence from their students like they do in the richer schools.

Zig, with the teachers being the graders who is to say they won't just assign A's to get their bonus?!?!

[packinpatland]

Or you could do what the grade school my daughter went to. She, being special needs, didn't take any of the tests. At the time, we were told 'you really don't want to put her through that...' What they were really saying is...she'll lower our test scores.

I don't know what other states do but, here in CT, we get a % of slot revenue from the Indian casinos. On average it's between 17-20 million a month, that money was originally earmarked for education......

Did they put her in an inclusionary environment, in special ed classes, or some other model?

She was in inclusive classes that were appropriate, some special ed, and alot of one on one tutoring, and also a one on one aide, until high school....she was able to walk on her own by then.

We've had a hell of a time getting our local school district in IN to comply with federal legislation on inclusion. Their default mode remains the same as the 1970's--keeping all the special needs kids together, which of course rules out their being in the same classrooms as typically developing kids. There's a lot of variation on educational philosophy from state to state, and I would have assumed CT would be more of a leader on inclusion rather than a dinosaur like Indiana.

Unfortunetly, CT did not lead when it came to inclusion. When my daughter started school, they wanted to bus her to the other side of town, (we have 5 grade schools) to the school where all children with any disability were placed. We said no, we live less than 1/2 mile from our neighborhood school, the school where her sisters attend, where the rest of the neighborhood children attend. We firmly informed the school district where she would be enrolled, citing The ADA. There wasn't really any question. Soon after we 'paved the way' (this was 18 years ago), all children with disablities in our town attended the school closest to their home. One small victory.
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

[Partial]

I don't know, HH. Barack is starting to look like an unstoppable force and they say the democratic majority is going to expand in the house and senate.

Something might acctually get done in the next presidential term. Will it be for the better? I don't know, but there is a good chance that there is a major shake up in health care.

You do realize that bill will be so tainted and changed by the time it gets through congress it won't look like anything he is pitching now.

[Partial]

The thing that really scares me isn't that children are being left behind, it's that enough children AREN'T being left behind. Some of the things I'm starting to see in my old high school and here in college are scaring the shit out of me. It seems to me that secondary education has two BIG problems.

1.) Schools are passing through students who should be failing.
2.) Students that should be just "passing" are getting inflated grades.

I fear that we've become so obsessed with making our youth feel good about themselves we're decreasing the quality of the education. I always hear from candidates that they want "more scientists and engineers", students proficient in math and science. They're going to get it, but what good are a ton of new engineers if THEY AREN'T QUALIFIED TO BE ENGINEERS? I had an opportunity to TA a course last semester, and it struck me that students just want to be "told" the answer to a question. They don't want to put the effort into finding the solution themselves, and they got the hell blown out of them on the exams when they had to take basic principles and apply them to a problem they hadn't seen before. Personally, I blame the internet. When I was in grade school, if I wanted to do a report, I had to go hunt through my shelf of Encyclopedias to get good information, and actually research. Now you can just go to Wikipedia.

When I went home to Wisconsin for Christmas, I opened up my local newspaper. First thought... "Jesus Christ... the entire middle school is on the B-honor roll or better!" What's worse, they've opened a "Renaissance" school for high schoolers. Students who can't hack it (not just those who have learning issues) in the standard high school are relegated to the Renaissance school, where they get to go though fluff classes and literally, get an "A" for the week if they show up every day. As a result, the graduation rate for the high school skyrockets, and the Renaissance students are still allowed to graduate with a standard diploma.

What I'm wondering is...why don't we start giving incentives to fail students? The more students who fail (within limit - it doesn't do any good to just let teachers fail everyone and get incentives), the more money the school gets. Make the "average" a "C" again, and schools that do have lots of students who need help get more money.

[/rant]

Jesus, that was long. Sorry, this subject just really pisses me off.

I tend to agree with this. The reason it is like this with passing everyone though is because the parents don't expect their kids to have to do homework, and they bitch and moan and even file lawsuits to make their kid #1. I was talking to a professor who used to teach in a middle school recently. He said his number one reason to get out of their was to get away from the parents he spent as least 3-4 hours a week dealing with.

Parents want teachers to not only teach them, but to police there kids as well. Not only that, but they also want everything to be taught and learned in the class room. Math for example is one of those things that needs to simply be done repetitively to become good at it. As a result, they move at a snail of a pace, and give dumb downed tests. Personally, I think math in particular teaches students how to learn and should be one of the most emphasized topics in education. I think every high schooler should be required to have passed Calc 1 to get a diploma as it is useful and really not very difficult at all. Furthermore, I also think the majority of students should be taking Calc 2 by their senior year of HS.

Looking back at my math career, I really don't think I learned that much new content from 7th grade to 11th grade. They spend literally 6-7 years teaching basic algebra that could be condensed into 2 years if students were required to do nightly homework.

[Partial]

However, many of the students who get sent there are habitually truant, got suspended for repeatedly fighting, etc. Basically those who just don't give a damn. That's what really upsets me.

But these ARE kids with problems. If they can function in an alternative school, and get used to learning SOMETHING, this is far better than kicking them out of school.

Not that an alternative school is going to save every messed-up, drugged-out kid. Some kids simply have to be expelled. But damn, I know they work for some kids.

I'm getting the impression that CPF is not upset about the existence of the program as much as the fact that just for showing up, they're awarded the same diploma as everyone else without the knowledge that the mainstream kids have gained, and therefore without the capability to function after graduation be it in college or in a job.

And Harlan, you're right. They do work well for those kids who put in the effort and still struggle for the understanding of the concepts they're supposed to be learning. It would be nice if all parents took as much responsibility for their kids' education as some do. Too bad they don't.

Precisely right. People are way to quick to put the kids into these slower pace schools that don't need to be. Just like in the 90s when doping your kids up on ridalin was the answer when kids couldn't concentrate. It's time to stop blaming everything else and start making the kids work harder. I for one did not understand this until college as I was a perennial under-achiever in HS.

[Partial]

That may be the dumbest thing I've seen all week. I'm all for giving kids a chance to bring their grades up--BY MAKING UP THE WORK!!! What in blazes are these people thinking?

on the devil's advocate side of life, graded homework is stupid, though. Homework is when you put in the work to learn the material. You shouldn't be graded on that as it takes everyone different methods and lengths of time. More often than not in elementary and middle school, you would get an A merely for completing the assignment even if its with right or wrong answers. If they got rid of mandatory homework, less students would attempt it. But, on the other hand, the students who don't understand the concepts would fail the tests and thus have to retake the class.

[CyclonePackFan]

Parents want teachers to not only teach them, but to police there kids as well. Not only that, but they also want everything to be taught and learned in the class room.

I'll agree wholeheartedly with this. There may be issues with the education system, but not all blame can be set on the schools.

Math for example is one of those things that needs to simply be done repetitively to become good at it. As a result, they move at a snail of a pace, and give dumb downed tests. Personally, I think math in particular teaches students how to learn and should be one of the most emphasized topics in education. I think every high schooler should be required to have passed Calc 1 to get a diploma as it is useful and really not very difficult at all. Furthermore, I also think the majority of students should be taking Calc 2 by their senior year of HS.

Not so much on board with making a requirement for all students to go as high as Calculus. Taking lots of math should be encouraged, but not required. High school should provide basic knowledge to all, but I think specialization comes with college. People are different, some people are logical and math comes easy, others are more creative and have difficulty in math, but may be gifted in other areas. It doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to graduate. Give me a calc test and I doubt I'd have problems with it, but put me in front of an bunch of parts and tell me to build a car engine and I'd be totally lost.

[Partial]

Well right, because you don't work on cars. Math is really important imo and teaches you how to learn which is the most important skill that can be learned.

Whitnall required you to take a pre-calc course, but they should have accelerated everything through middle school and had you doing pre-calc as a sophomore. Calc 1 is a piece of cake and should be required for graduation. Calc 2 should be the senior math class that is optional, and Differential Equations and multi-variable calculus should be the AP equivalent.

I remember from my days when the foreign exchange students would come in and do circles around everyone else in math. They teach it way slower in America than at least Brazil, Armenia, and I am sure there are a few others.

[hoosier]

Unfortunetly, CT did not lead when it came to inclusion. When my daughter started school, they wanted to bus her to the other side of town, (we have 5 grade schools) to the school where all children with any disability were placed. We said no, we live less than 1/2 mile from our neighborhood school, the school where her sisters attend, where the rest of the neighborhood children attend. We firmly informed the school district where she would be enrolled, citing The ADA. There wasn't really any question. Soon after we 'paved the way' (this was 18 years ago), all children with disablities in our town attended the school closest to their home. One small victory.
http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada.peer.htm

Nicely done. And good to know that sticking to your guns and being a pain in the system's ass on the "least restrictive environment" principle can make things easier for other families down the road. The idea that others will have to go through the same mountains of BS all over again would make being a pain in the ass very depressing.

[swede]

Been away for a while and just saw this thread. As i comment on a few things keep in mind that I am a conservative public school teacher--a rather rare bird.

The PL 94-142 stuff regarding students with disabilities was an interesting side-topic. This is an example of how the federal government actually does have a legitimate voice in the education of children at the state and local levels.

PL 94-142 protects and ensures the right of handicapped children to have access to a public education. Constitutionally, the federal government has an interest in protecting the rights of children with disabilities since, as citizens, they should not be excluded from public education given to other children simply because of the elevated expenses brought about by the elevated needs.

Every state and every local district will do things differently as they attempt to follow the federal rules, and they will all swear that they are doing things the "right way."

As a few of you have pointed out, parents need to push districts when they feel that their children are not having their needs met.

On the other hand, there are districts who have caved to the demands of certain parents in order to avoid litigation. In bad situations this ends up compromising the education of many students in order to placate the demands of unreasonable parents.

I am quite sure that situations mentioned by the posters here represent the former case rather than the latter. The courts, as always from the conservative point of view, are important players in setting good precedents that represent the laws as written without imposing new laws that haven't been legislated.

As far as NCLB, if I had a chance to meet President Bush I would first shake his hand and thank him for fighting the war against terror--even if he's done it clumsily at times. Then I would tell him that I should--federal law and a good upbringing prevent me from actually doing so --kick him in the ass three times. Once for doing a bad job of sealing our southern borders and twice for bringing about the NCLB act. No progressive President in his biggest wet dream could have produced such an expensive, stupid, implausible, ineffective, resource-draining boondoggle.

The federal government has no damn business in education. The constitution granted that privilege to the states. The only exception to this is when education commonly available to most citizens is taken away from the few because of skin color or handicap or some other arbitrary reason. Then the federal government must step in to say that what is available to most should be available to all--simply that.

Every school district in every state now has a new layer of expensive do-nothing bureaucrats in the central offices stealing money and time from the educational process and they will never, ever go away. Democrats won't get rid of this law. Are you kidding? They will re-work it to fit their own political aims.

At the federal level, Republican and Democratic politicians alike are cuckoo birds laying their stupid, illegitimate eggs in the nests of local school districts where we are forced to deal with the unhelpful and meaningless and expensive consequences.

[MJZiggy]

As far as NCLB, if I had a chance to meet President Bush I would first shake his hand and thank him for fighting the war against terror--even if he's done it clumsily at times. Then I would tell him that I should--federal law and a good upbringing prevent me from actually doing so --kick him in the ass three times. Once for doing a bad job of sealing our southern borders and twice for bringing about the NCLB act. No progressive President in his biggest wet dream could have produced such an expensive, stupid, implausible, ineffective, resource-draining boondoggle.

At the federal level, Republican and Democratic politicians alike are cuckoo birds laying their stupid, illegitimate eggs in the nests of local school districts where we are forced to deal with the unhelpful and meaningless and expensive consequences.

You forgot counterproductive and disruptive (not to be redundant or anything...).

[Tyrone Bigguns]

I have three daughters.......two graduated in the top 3% of their class. One of those is now attending Yale. My third daughter is one of those 'special needs' kids. I've had to fight equally hard for both forms of 'gifted'.

In retrospect.......I should have fought harder for my special daughter.........the other two have the capabilities to make their own way. Unless you've been in the position to see both ends of the spectrum.....the saying 'walk in my shoes' comes to mind.

Sorta rambled there..........it's a hard..........

Are you calling your daughter at yale gifted. IF she was gifted she woulda been at harvard.

[packinpatland]

I have three daughters.......two graduated in the top 3% of their class. One of those is now attending Yale. My third daughter is one of those 'special needs' kids. I've had to fight equally hard for both forms of 'gifted'.

In retrospect.......I should have fought harder for my special daughter.........the other two have the capabilities to make their own way. Unless you've been in the position to see both ends of the spectrum.....the saying 'walk in my shoes' comes to mind.

Sorta rambled there..........it's a hard..........

Are you calling your daughter at yale gifted. IF she was gifted she woulda been at harvard.

My mistake.......where in the hell did we go wrong?