Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby
Too late, you already have. I'm going to join your party and the ranks of the lower middle class. In your world, it's a lot more fun there.
Too late, you already have. I'm going to join your party and the ranks of the lower middle class. In your world, it's a lot more fun there.
Maybe you would be just fine. The SS system is supposed to be a buffer against bad luck and bad choices. People in 1920 also had the option to invest wisely, as you expect to do. Doesn't work out for all. SS was created for a reason.
Including the Roth?
Dude, people can buy and sell houses every 2 years (ahead of this current collapse), making up to $500K tax free on each transaction. That's potentially $5M in 10 years in loopholes that you'd leave in the system - just because people love their housing breaks.
Like I said, you're like the chess player that can't see beyond one move. How long did it take me to figure out how to work the MIT subsidy for poor folk? I can play your "fairness" game all day long, and beat it. Easily. There's always a way.
The answer is simple. lower rates, grow the economy, create jobs, collect more real tax dollars instead of less Harlan dollars.
Harlan, you and your divisionary politics will leave the country in shambles, but everyone can console each other at soup kitchens with the pride that at least it's "fair".
Again, no it was not. This is another Harlan lie. Social Security pays out to everyone whether they need it or not.
You're a real piece of work. What you said is not in conflict with the patently true statement I made. Its supposed to be annuity, not paid out on basis of need, but the whole only point of the program was an insurance program for people who might otherwise be in trouble in their older years.
Again, no it was not. This is another Harlan lie. Social Security pays out to everyone whether they need it or not.
Harlan's agenda reminds me a lot of what happened at GM and in the American auto industry. I'm sure the bloated pension promises and higher than market wages looked like a great idea to union membership at the time. If they had looked two or three moves ahead, they may have realized that these Harlanesque efforts at "fairness" came at an incredible price. Granted, I'm sure they meant well. But now GM couldn't compete. Factories closed. Thriving communities were turned into ghost towns. People go without any jobs at all. GM now starts at a ~ $3000 pension fund liability disadvantage to Toyota on every vehicle they build. So how could they possibly thrive? And now Toyota is number 1.
If you want every city in America to look like Flint Michigan, then by all means follow Harlan's advice.
Don't follow what you are talking about. You've been crowing about how the Roth plan allows you to avoid paying taxes. Apparently you think the nation would be in peril if such tax shelters were removed. I don't believe it.
The tax code is a disaster because all the attempts at social & economic engineering. I believe the country would adjust and prosper under a simplified tax code.
My politics are hardly divisive. You are the one who characterizes people as lazy or less worthy than yourself. I try to bridge the best ideas of different ideologies.
Have you done any math at all on this? Do you not recognize the time value of money?
Long term capital gains are in part taxed at a lower rate due to inflationary pressures that diminish the real gains.
(Example)
Income:
You typically get paid every two weeks for your work. There is virtually no inflationary effect on the spending power of the money you earn because you get paid right away.
Capital Gains:
You typically don't get paid until you sell your investment vehicle. Lets use 10 years in this example. I invest $100K for ten years, earning about 7% a year. At the end of the 10 years it's worth about $200K - about a $100K capital gain. The problem comes in because inflationary pressure has eaten away a huge portion of the purchasing power of both my initial investment, and the capital gain.
It's not taxed at the same rate as ordinary income because ordinary income is not punished by inflationary pressure the way investment income is.
But you continue to lead people to believe that its just because the wealthy are screwing the little guy - the politics of hate. Despicable.
I can make no connections, even indirect ones, between my opinions and your moral fable here. I have expressed no protectionist instincts. I'm for a dynamic free market, with a safety net to help the casualties.
Agreed. You don't get it.
You are truly demented. The government created draw to the Roth savings plan was the tax benefits. That's how they got people to invest in them. They can't play bait and switch and take them away after they've already collected the money.
Now you're advocating fraud.
Ridiculous. We are supposed to cover an investor's inflationary losses? Why? And "long term" kicks in after a single year, if I remember correctly.
Lame.
As far as politics of hate, that certainly does not describe me. You'll never hear me talking about the fat cats, I don't begrudge people their wealth. Good for them is my atittude. I simply want a more fair and transparent tax system.
I don't believe it. You've been treated unjustly, and now you just want your sugar daddy.
Heee heee heee. I am no financial wizard, perhaps you've picked up on that.
You are truly demented. The government created draw to the Roth savings plan was the tax benefits. That's how they got people to invest in them. They can't play bait and switch and take them away after they've already collected the money.
Now you're advocating fraud.
Accomplishing my vision would require a long phase-in period. Major changes in the tax code can't be turned on a dime.
I don't believe it. You've been treated unjustly, and now you just want your sugar daddy.
I am not a vindictive person. I am not rapacious. I am not envious.
And most of all, as tricky dicky would say, I AM NOT A CROOK!
And I harbor no grievances.
Trust me, I don't believe you're motivated at all.
Yep...to be a blank check for Congress.
My signature has NUDITY in it...whatcha gonna do?
Debates like these can go in circles for hours. They are actually fun to watch and listen to. I tend to agree with Cambell, and Partial. Partial may be young and not always right, but he's on the right path.
SS was created because most people are too foolish to know how to invest that 6.2%, and create themselves a nice retirement nest egg. Like Partial I'd rather have that 6.2% to invest on my own, and not collect a SS check. My parents do pretty well financially, and about 7-8 years ago my father got a letter from the SS administration saying that he has fully paid into his SS. So, in essence what he has paid into SS for the last 8 years he will never see a dime of. His SS check will be the same no matter what. He's basically paying SS taxes so others can collect a check - I guess this is Harlanesque.
Maybe you would be just fine. The SS system is supposed to be a buffer against bad luck and bad choices. People in 1920 also had the option to invest wisely, as you expect to do. Doesn't work out for all. SS was created for a reason.
See, this is where the subject gets hairy. While you're dad is older and probably planned on getting SS and as such he should get his check every month. However, since I was a youngen I knew that I would never see a time of this, so I think they should start to phase it out so it ends right about the time my generation would start collecting them.SS was created because most people are too foolish to know how to invest that 6.2%, and create themselves a nice retirement nest egg. Like Partial I'd rather have that 6.2% to invest on my own, and not collect a SS check. My parents do pretty well financially, and about 7-8 years ago my father got a letter from the SS administration saying that he has fully paid into his SS. So, in essence what he has paid into SS for the last 8 years he will never see a dime of. His SS check will be the same no matter what. He's basically paying SS taxes so others can collect a check - I guess this is Harlanesque.
Maybe you would be just fine. The SS system is supposed to be a buffer against bad luck and bad choices. People in 1920 also had the option to invest wisely, as you expect to do. Doesn't work out for all. SS was created for a reason.
Yes, I'd take one for the team.
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