Recession coming

[red]

one thing no to forget is the mass amounts of outsourcing, or companies just opening factories in other countries

these companies can still post decent numbers, they are making money and showing good gains. but the only americans that are making money are the stockholders and the very upper management. they take the money from americans by selling their products, but don't reinvest in this country, or supply any american workers with money that they can then spend in the market

i'm not sure if this would make a bad economy look better then it is or not

but its something to consider.

if american companies don't have american workers, sooner or later on a long enough time line americans will no longer have the money to buy any of those products. even if those companies are showing large profits

[red]

I don't know the figures, but i'd love to know what percent don't have debt..or extreme debt.

I'm sure you could almost count the number without any debt on one hand.

What I'm getting at are people who use debt to live beyond their means...paying more than 40% of your monthly income toward your home and/or using debt to finance common big ticket purchases. If you have the coin to afford the debt you are taking on and do so because you can get a good rate on it, I don't think that is necessarily living beyond your means.

People who train themselves to use cash rather than plastic are typically the ones who are better off in a credit crunch.

And, who doesn't live beyond their means in this country? Take out the depression era folks who have an apocalypse could happen any minute mindset and there are very few.

This country has a poor savings rate..and that is being kind. Perhaps you might wanna talk to our prez who told us the best thing we could do was to spend.

this is exactly what you're suppose to do to get the economy going again. usualy if people spend, companies make money, and that money funnels to the workers in terms of wages, that they then reinvest in the economy.

however if we spend more now, that money just ends up going overseas, and doesn't help the economy much at all, except for a a handfull of people.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't know the figures, but i'd love to know what percent don't have debt..or extreme debt.

Start a poll.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't know the figures, but i'd love to know what percent don't have debt..or extreme debt.

I'm sure you could almost count the number without any debt on one hand.

What I'm getting at are people who use debt to live beyond their means...paying more than 40% of your monthly income toward your home and/or using debt to finance common big ticket purchases. If you have the coin to afford the debt you are taking on and do so because you can get a good rate on it, I don't think that is necessarily living beyond your means.

People who train themselves to use cash rather than plastic are typically the ones who are better off in a credit crunch.

I use plastic for virtually every purchase - for the convenience and the audit trail. But it has little to do with debt. Lots of people pay off balances in full each month.

[MJZiggy]

Me too. And I don't live beyond my means either.

[Freak Out]

I put everything on my Alaska Airlines visa......home and business. But it gets paid off every month. Were not going to spend our way out of this one folks....that's the problem right now with our Government. Spending money we don't have.

[Partial]

I don't know the figures, but i'd love to know what percent don't have debt..or extreme debt.

I'm sure you could almost count the number without any debt on one hand.

What I'm getting at are people who use debt to live beyond their means...paying more than 40% of your monthly income toward your home and/or using debt to finance common big ticket purchases. If you have the coin to afford the debt you are taking on and do so because you can get a good rate on it, I don't think that is necessarily living beyond your means.

People who train themselves to use cash rather than plastic are typically the ones who are better off in a credit crunch.

I use plastic for virtually every purchase - for the convenience and the audit trail. But it has little to do with debt. Lots of people pay off balances in full each month.

Correct. It is simply for conviences sake. It's a scary thought though that people have come into Sears to pay their bill and have had as high as 31k in debt on a 26% card. Talk about a DFI

[Partial]

I put everything on my Alaska Airlines visa......home and business. But it gets paid off every month. Were not going to spend our way out of this one folks....that's the problem right now with our Government. Spending money we don't have.

Correct, but you are a democrat I would guess from the posts that I've seen and if you haven't noticed, there plan is to take the money out of iraq and give it to the ungrateful poor and for universal health care for the poor, so guys like you and me who earn over the threshold have to pay into that as well as get our own private insurance.

[MJZiggy]

Where the hell do you get that? Universal means universal. Like for everyone. And please explain to me what keeping troops in Iraq is getting us that's better than healthcare for everyone?

[Partial]

Where the hell do you get that? Universal means universal. Like for everyone. And please explain to me what keeping troops in Iraq is getting us that's better than healthcare for everyone?

Listen to what Obama has to say. It's keeping myself and my family and my friends from being blown up.

[The Leaper]

Where the hell do you get that? Universal means universal. Like for everyone. And please explain to me what keeping troops in Iraq is getting us that's better than healthcare for everyone?

Oh, I don't know...perhaps a civil war in the Middle East and $10 a gallon gasoline.

If Iraq collapses into civil war...which is a real possibility if we go Obama-o-rama and just yank everyone out and tell them to get along nice without us...the world economy, which is based strongly on the oil coming from that region of the world, will become increasing unstable.

I'm fine with people who don't agree with the Bush administration's decisions regarding Iraq...Rumsfeld was an incompetant moron and Bush isn't exactly a genius. Disagreement doesn't change the status quo though. We are there and basically the one thing standing between peace and civil war. Ignoring that reality is very dangerous IMO. Thinking you can just reverse everything and make it all better by pulling everyone out is NOT a solution at this point.

We can easily maintain peace in Iraq and provide a solution to health care and balance the budget. However, it will take politicians who want to find solutions...not cling to party lines and special interests. Unfortunately, Washington has very few of these individuals...so WHOEVER becomes president doesn't have a chance in hell of accomplishing anything.

[Partial]

We can easily maintain peace in Iraq and provide a solution to health care and balance the budget. However, it will take politicians who want to find solutions...not cling to party lines and special interests. Unfortunately, Washington has very few of these individuals...so WHOEVER becomes president doesn't have a chance in hell of accomplishing anything.

Now that I do not believe.

Health Care was going to boost the taxation to something like 40-50% of take-home pay. That is ridiculous. That means they need to generate new revenue to accomplish this. That means it is very, very expensive(especially when handled by the efficient government).

This, paired with Iraq operations will be very expensive.

We need to get a small government that doesn't spend a lot of money.

[Scott Campbell]

if american companies don't have american workers......

If?

That horse left the barn years ago. The american factory worker can not compete in a global economy when skilled Chinese factory workers are making 70 cents a day. And if it weren't China, it would just be some other low wage country.

Capitalism has little pity for the weakest competitors. You either adapt, or die.

[Harlan Huckleby]

if american companies don't have american workers......

If?

That horse left the barn years ago. The american factory worker can not compete in a global economy when skilled Chinese factory workers are making 70 cents a day. And if it weren't China, it would just be some other low wage country.

Capitalism has little pity for the weakest competitors. You either adapt, or die.

How do you expect American workers to adapt to these realities? Work for 65 cents per day? Beg in the streets?

If health care is tied to employers, many people are going to suffer badly, there simply aren't enough jobs with good benefits to go around. It is very hard for people to retrain themselves.

I don't see how we can have relatively free trade without massive consequences to people. Yes, people must adapt, but do you truly beleive they will be able to do it, in large numbers, on their own?

[Scott Campbell]

if american companies don't have american workers......

If?

That horse left the barn years ago. The american factory worker can not compete in a global economy when skilled Chinese factory workers are making 70 cents a day. And if it weren't China, it would just be some other low wage country.

Capitalism has little pity for the weakest competitors. You either adapt, or die.

How do you expect American workers to adapt to these realities? Work for 65 cents per day? Beg in the streets?

I don't understand you. I feel reasonably safe in saying that you aren't stupid. A little less secure in thinking you are not cruel, but we'll go with that theory for sake of discussion. Why are you so unwilling to help people who are displaced by globalization? If health care is tied to employers, many people are going to suffer badly, there simply aren't enough jobs with good benefits to go around. It is very hard for people to retrain themselves.

I don't see how we can have relatively free trade without massive consequences to people. Yes, people must adapt, but do you truly beleive they will be able to do it, in large numbers, on their own?

First off, don't shoot the messenger. Life is cruel. Nature is cruel. Capitalism is cruel. Competition is cruel. The government has its hands full without taking on all life's injustices. First you wanted Forum Utopia. Now you propose Government Utopia. I believe that much of the well intentioned Liberal agenda will just end up enabling mediocrity.

I think our philosophical differences come down to just a few things. I think people are capable of more. You think nobody is lazy, or that nobody has made poor choices that resulted in their misfortune. Everyone has reached their full potential in your world. The "haves" are just lucky, and the "have nots" are just unlucky. I think you struggle accepting personal accountability for your own lot in life, and project those same rationalizations on everyone else who struggles.

Do I enjoy other people's suffering? No, not even yours. I just think that the government can't make it all better by stealing even more than they already do from those who are achieving. It'll destroy this country.

[Freak Out]

Cheney goes to rehab.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...d=opinionsbox1

[Scott Campbell]

I don't see how we can have relatively free trade without massive consequences to people.

"IF YOU DON'T LIKE CHANGE, YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IRRELEVANCE EVEN LESS."

--Gen. Eric Shinseki, former Army Chief of Staff

[Scott Campbell]

If health care is tied to employers........

I do think that employer provided health care is not working. It restricts free agency. I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe insurance portability. Though I am fairly certain that the answer isn't free boob jobs for everyone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

First off, don't shoot the messenger. Life is cruel. Nature is cruel. Capitalism is cruel. Competition is cruel. The government has its hands full without taking on all life's injustices.

We could go back to 1800's Charles Dickens world. Let everybody fend for themselves.

But that is an extreme characterization. I don't THINK you would vote for an end of social security, public education, labor laws. Or would you?

There is a happy balance. It is possible to be pro-business AND care about people. Most people are trying to find that balance. And then you have a few extremist who think they can just implement a one-sided ideology. You caricature me as utopian socialist, but that's not where I'm coming from, I look for a practical compromise.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If health care is tied to employers........

I do think that employer provided health care is not working. It restricts free agency. I'm not sure what the answer is. Maybe insurance portability. Though I am fairly certain that the answer isn't free boob jobs for everyone.

Employer-provided health care is certainly not working. It is crushing innovation from entrepreneurs, overburdening other businesses. 58 M people run around without insurance.

Its doable to provide health insurance to all.