Quote Originally Posted by jacks smirking revenge
O wise one, please paint me a picture of "the real thing". You can't. There isn't one. The picture of the "real thing" changes from person to person. It's called subjectivity. I like Dominos. That doesn't make it any less of a real thing. I've had pizza at an Italian restaurant in Venice. I know its good and I know I like it. Dominos isn't the same thing, but that doesn't mean I can't like it because its not the same as Venetian pizza. Even suggesting that you know what the "real thing" is is arrogance because there is no "real thing". There's only you and me and we just disagree.

The Cure, Doves, Coldplay, Snow Patrol, Massive Attack and whatever bands you're into at the moment are no more relevant than 3d Blind or BTE. Know why? Because they are relevant to me or to us. That's the bottom line and is all that matters. I'm not about to call the stuff you listen to "trite" or "pablum" or "farts in the wind", and I could easily say that about any of the bands you've listed off and/or talked about, but won't. They're relevant to you and that's all that matters. Every band you listen to arrived in your CD player or on your Ipod through the miracle of marketing at some level--major label, indie or local rock. It doesn't matter. They all go through spin cycle. That's what I do for a living. Spinning so people spend their money and purchase the product I want them to. If you are a fan of any band, you've been spun by marketing. I honestly dont care if the bands I like were liked by teenyboppers or if the lead singer thought the quickest route to acting was through music. I got into BTE when I was a freshman in college. I hooked into their song "Good" and became a fan. Have been ever since, including through their ride when they got dumped by a major, put albums out on their own labels, and were just picked up again by a mid-level major. That's all irrelevant; what's relevant is that I'm a fan. That I connect with the music on some level. You're welcome to your opinion about the music that I listen to, but denograting it without valid reason or explanation is hollow.

And, in regards to your condescending education comment. Just because you're an expert on a genre, doesn't make me an idiot. I could talk circles around you in other genres. The genres I support do just fine without your dollars pouring in. The money I spend at local gigs keeps many bands alive and furthering their craft. I don't listen to radio. I don't watch TV or MTV or VH1. I don't read blogs. I research. I develop my interests through alternate channels. So, don't give me the "well, if they're on the radio, they must be popular" line. Not applicable here. With all of the bands you've mentioned in the last few posts, you are FAR more trendy than I am.

Standards are subjective also. They don't apply similarly across the board. That's like reading 200 reviews of the same CD on Amazon.com. Not everyone will have the same opinion. Not every reviewer is going to like a CD. There is no universally-liked CD. Therefore, there are no true standards. In order to have true standards, you have to have an accepted example of something that is the high end of a standard range and something of the low end. Your standard spectrum is not the same as mine. The standard spectrum for MTV's review of Slayer's "God Hates Us All" is not the same as Kerrang!'s standards for the album. MTV would trash it and give it one star, while Kerrang! could give it four. Is someone really wrong? No because...

Opinions are like a-holes.... I started this thread in the spirit of community, to gather and collect all of the different band interests. Not to judge. Not to criticize. To understand and educate us all. An attempt by me to research what's out there in the different genres. Your welcome to your opinion about the music we listen to, but drop the condescending attitude. I appreciate your list and am interested in checking out what's on it, but I don't think any of us are here to have our interests put down by a self-important music critic.

In the end, it comes down to respect. Calling someone elses interests "trite" or "pablum" or "worthless" (farts in the wind) isn't a show of respect. Yes, I've posted here a bit since April 3. But, in my eyes, this thread, that I started, is dead. Maybe this response was just 3 weeks in the making.

tyler
Well, we just disagree. You believe everything is subjective. I couldn't disagree more. If everything is subjective, how do we recognize a masterpiece, be it art, music, literature.

That is a foolish argument to make. There is highbrow and lowbrow art. There are B movies. According to your argument, a velvet painting of elvis is no better or worse than a Picasso.

You change the argument from good vs. bad to if I like it than it is good. Fine, I said as much. But, the difference is that you then put it at the same level as every other piece of work. That is just ridiculous.

Real thing. Again, yes there are real things. You are welcome to enjoy Dominos. But, to claim that it is real pizza/authentic is just foolish. And, i would love to see you tell an italian that Olive Garden represents there culture. Like, love, enjoy what you want, but don't tell me its raining when you are pissing on me. That moral/ethical relativism argument is a loser.

Are you really going to look me in the eye and tell me that a Hustler layout is a piece of art at the same level as Renoir, just because I think it is. You are going to defend that?

If you play guitar how do you determine if you are in tune? I think it is subjective. LOL

As for relevance, I have no idea what you are driving at. I never claimed or stated anything regarding relevance. I have stated the exact opposite. If you like it, then enjoy it.

I brought up the "popular" not based upon you alone. You said others were driven off, and one of those people used that as a criteria. That person said if it was getting airplay then it was doing so because it was good. Therefore if it isn't then it must not be good. That is an asinine argument. I would never claim that. Bach, Brahms, Metallica, Slayer, Maiden never get airplay.

Idiot: I don't believe I ever used that term, nor did I imply that. Never said anyone was an idiot. I find it interesting that you are incapable of grasping a simple concept. I have freely said that I like certain bands/songs that most would laugh at. I don't think i'm an idiot for liking them. So, why would i think you or anyone else is. I accept the triteness, banality, insipidness and revel in it. But, i'm not going to say KC is in the same league as the Beatles or Stones. But, using your argument everything is subjective...so Brittney Spears is just as good of an artist as Jimi Hendrix. Puhlease.

Its like when I used to listen to Sisters of Mercy or the Mission Uk. People would criticize based on it being overblown, pompous and ridiculous...and that is exactly why I liked them. Of course its ridiculous.

I never called someone's interest trite. Your interest is music. I called a certain band trite. BTE, 3rd Eye, Tonic, etc...melodic post grunge is most certainly trite. Lyrically they most certainly are. Pablum means simple/insipid writing which, again certainly describes their lyics. Farts in the wind...most certainly are. 10 years from now the only people that will remember most of those bands will be you and a select few. Infact they are barely footnotes right now. Nirvana, PJ, Soundgarden, etc. will be remembered. No one is going to cry if Jenkins offs himself (ok, you and his mom).

Catchy, hooky, and maybe even heartfelt would also describe their tunes. Fair is fair.

Trendy: I don't have a problem with trendy. Anything that breaks ground and gathers a following is going to be labeled that. Metallica was trendy, the Dead were trendy, Nirvana was trendy.

What i find most hilarious is that you would quote, perhaps unknowingly from one of the most trite, insipid artists I can think of..Dave Mason. LOL. But, I love that song because of how cheezy it is.

As for condescending...geez, your post reeks of it. I'm not condescending. I'm stating my opinion. You dont' have to like, respect or even think twice about it. But, it is mine.

I'm more than willing to change my mind, open to considering different viewpoints. But, funny, you have yet to ever really address my criticism of those bands. You just talk about hurt feelings. So, sorry. Didn't realize you were so sensitive.