In self defense of myself and family's safety
I see somebody commiting a violent & dangerous crime like armed robbery or rape
My own property has been trespassed and I fear my property is threatened
I see a large crime against property, such as insider trading
I see a small crime against property underway - my neighbor's car being burglarized
I see any crime underway
Fortunately, Harlan doesn't let the evidence stand in the way of his evidence.Originally Posted by Scott Campbell
If it were pretty clear, he would have at the very least been indicted. But they didn't even indict the guy.
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
I see. So if we don't agree with Harlan's righteous way of thinking, we must be for executing shoplifters.
Such a lovely debate tactic.
What's really funny is how you act like it's so mysterious that people attack you personally. Gee - I wonder why?
I always thought Darwin had the look of a killer.
Well, there was the curious way he was dressed...
If it were pretty clear, he would have at the very least been indicted. But they didn't even indict the guy.
you are unwilling to have an intelligent conversation. you just resort to mockery, and never face the substance of the question.Of course they're completely the same... when you ignore as many important details as you do to render the situations comparable. That's your bag though. Ignore what doesn't fit your opinion and blow everything else out of proportion so that now we have a virtual legion of dead teens at the hands of Joe Horn.I really don't know why deadly force would be justified when you see illegal immigrants prowling around your neighbors yard with loot, but then not justified if you see teens stealing beer. You may see them as drastically different situations, OK, explain how they are different.
Why not just make it babies stealing beer? Or puppies? Maybe retarded baby puppies? That's the effect your going for after all. Might as well go all the way.
darn you, Skinbasket!
I'll try again: you observe some teens stealing something out of your neighbor's garage. Is it OK to shoot them? you see what appears to be criminal-types stealing something out of your neighbors garage, is the situation any different?
If it were pretty clear, he would have at the very least been indicted. But they didn't even indict the guy.[/quote]
As Shannon Edmonds, a lobbyist for the Texas District and County Attorneys Association, put it: "There's an unwritten rule in Texas courthouses: It ain't against the law to kill a son of a bitch."
Looking Kindly on Vigilante Justice
The dirty little secret is that there is probably very little difference of opinion over the principles involved here. That is shown in the poll results.
Ya, there are a few people who said "go ahead and kill whenever you see ANY illegal activity", but those people are either: A) insincere wise guys, B) unimaginably stupid, or C) psychopathic killers. I'm guessing that most or all fall into category A.
If someone really believes that Joe acted in self-defense, then there is no disagreement on the issues. But I wonder if you believe this because you want to so badly. Just like the OJ jury bought the police conspiracy argument because they wanted so badly to believe.
For instance: Joe says he is going to "kill 'um" when he watches the Columbians crawling around next door. They aren;t any threat to him at that point. If you believe Joe was a self-defense guy, you must think he meant something different than what he said. By "kill" he meant "arrest" or "scare-off." I say you're full of it.
Has it occurred to you that I don't think there's anything here to have an intelligent conversation about?
I'll try again: You see a wild dog mauling a baby, making the baby cry, so you shoot it. You see a puppy lick a baby, making the baby cry, so you shoot it. Is the situation any different? Oh I forgot, both babies, the dog, and the puppy are all in a garage full of beer. Oh, and the lights are florescent tubes. 40 watt. And there's a can of blue paint in the corner. Proceed...
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
ok. the comparisons are just a way to get at your fundamental position. If you don't like the comparisons, maybe you will just directly explain:
Under what circumstances do you think it is justified to used deadly force?
Every time someone starts an argument just for the sake of argument. Every person that makes an annoying radio or TV ad with retards yammering back and forth. Every time Bob and Tom laugh into their mic 3 times as loud as the comedian we are trying to listen to.
You're getting close.
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
ok, I won't press you to give serious answers in the future.
You better prove they were intending to and could have harmed you if you kill them, or it's you that may end up in jail. It's not so simple as they were in my home so I killed them.
The homeowner has no obligation to conduct an investigation to determine whether the home intrusion was going to end harmlessly, or in the death of said homeowner. It's reasonable to shoot first and ask questions later during a home invasion, because you are reasonably in a kill or be killed situation. Just ask Sean Taylor who was killed by a kid in a home invasion. And that's exactly why the law of this land will excuse these kinds of things as justifiable self defense.
Is it sad? Hell ya. But that homeowner didn't kill that kid - Darwin did.
Those that entered Taylor's home did so to ROB Taylor and were prepared to KILL IF NEED BE. It was PRE-MEDITATED, they planned it out ahead of time after casing his home at a party (?). They broke in WITH WEAPONS and WITH INTENT TO DO HARM. The kid I mentioned was sneaking around in the neighborhood 'haunted house' out of curiousity without weapons and without intent to rob or do harm. The old man shot him from a distance before the kid could do anything, I don't think the kid even knew what happend. No warning, no get the fuck out of my house-I have a gun, just a gunshot. These situations couldn't be more different. If Taylor saw them coming and blasted their ass like the old man did, it would have been perfectly ok and legal. Shooting an unarmed and unwary intruder is not the same.
It appears we differ in opinion, there's no need to go round and round. I know what I would do and you know what you would do. Fair enough.
You're not pressing anyone for serious answers. You're pressing for answers that fit your opinion, either in the affirmative or the negative.
ok, I won't press you to give serious answers in the future.
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
Unwary intruder? Is that like an accidental murderer? Or a naive rapist?
Once they break in, they are a threat and they are a criminal, regardless of how aware of their surroundings they are. Asking that home owners scout out the intruder to take an inventory of the intruder's arsenal or announce their presence and intentions to a criminal before defending themselves or their property is ridiculous. The "intruders" certainly don't seem to be under the same obligation you propose.
It seems your basing your opinions about this on a lot of information that was discovered after the fact, instead of what the homeowners knew at the terrifying moment someone discovers an intruder in their home in the middle of the night.
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
Do you own a gun? Have you ever shot and killed an animal? Would you kill someone if they broke in your home?Unwary intruder? Is that like an accidental murderer? Or a naive rapist?
Once they break in, they are a threat and they are a criminal, regardless of how aware of their surroundings they are. Asking that home owners scout out the intruder to take an inventory of the intruder's arsenal or announce their presence and intentions to a criminal before defending themselves or their property is ridiculous. The "intruders" certainly don't seem to be under the same obligation you propose.
It seems your basing your opinions about this on a lot of information that was discovered after the fact, instead of what the homeowners knew at the terrifying moment someone discovers an intruder in their home in the middle of the night.
Hi God...it's me tyrone.
If it isn't too much trouble..can you have tex trespass on my lawn. I promise to put him down mercifully.
Your humble servant..tyrone.
P.S. Sorry for stealing from the collection plate...i just really needed a rock. I'm sure you understand.
I don't have a gun that I could technically use in an urban environment, nor would I want to even if someone broke into my home. I use it to hunt deer, and a 30-06 bullet would go through the intruder and into the neighbors house across the street. Honestly if someone broke into my house with my family present I would give them one warning to stop what they are doing and leave, otherwise they ain't leaving. I would lay down my own live in a heartbeat to protect my family, and the very least buy them some time until the law would come. I am not going to guess at the intentions of someone that has broken into my home.Do you own a gun? Have you ever shot and killed an animal? Would you kill someone if they broke in your home?Unwary intruder? Is that like an accidental murderer? Or a naive rapist?
Once they break in, they are a threat and they are a criminal, regardless of how aware of their surroundings they are. Asking that home owners scout out the intruder to take an inventory of the intruder's arsenal or announce their presence and intentions to a criminal before defending themselves or their property is ridiculous. The "intruders" certainly don't seem to be under the same obligation you propose.
It seems your basing your opinions about this on a lot of information that was discovered after the fact, instead of what the homeowners knew at the terrifying moment someone discovers an intruder in their home in the middle of the night.
No. The wife doesn't want one around the kids.
Yes. I grew up on a farm.
I would try. And I wouldn't ask stupid questions first or shout, "Here I am! Kill me if that's what you're going to do! If not, then I kindly ask that you leave now! Please."
I'm already at enough of a disadvantage not knowing who they are or what they're carrying to worry if I'm going to be clubbing an "unwary intruder" to unconsciousness/death or someone looking to kill my kids and rape my wife after I'm dead because I was more concerned about the criminal's mental state and motivations than the lives of my family.
Maybe you want to pass a law that requires the homeowner to sneak up and hug the intruder before taking any other action? Just in case the intruder is just looking for a little snuggle. Don't want any hug seeking unwary intruders to accidentally be killed after all.
"You're all very smart, and I'm very dumb." - Partial
I'm trying to have an honest conversation with you, if you want to act like a fucking prick, go right ahead. Whatever you might do in your own home, great. I thought I said as much in earlier posts, but don't fucking tell me how to act in mine. There isn't a how-to on how to handle this shit, and I am genuinely interested in what people think about it. For every person that is going to blast first and not care who or what they shoot, there are plenty of people that are going to handle it different. The law is fucked these days and defending your home can land your ass in jail if you don't handle it right, that's a fact. I have no intentions of spending any fucking time in jail because I didn't realize what my rights as a gun owner defending my home actually entail. If you want to continue mocking my opinions about this, go right ahead.No. The wife doesn't want one around the kids.
Yes. I grew up on a farm.
I would try. And I wouldn't ask stupid questions first or shout, "Here I am! Kill me if that's what you're going to do! If not, then I kindly ask that you leave now! Please."
I'm already at enough of a disadvantage not knowing who they are or what they're carrying to worry if I'm going to be clubbing an "unwary intruder" to unconsciousness/death or someone looking to kill my kids and rape my wife after I'm dead because I was more concerned about the criminal's mental state and motivations than the lives of my family.
Maybe you want to pass a law that requires the homeowner to sneak up and hug the intruder before taking any other action? Just in case the intruder is just looking for a little snuggle. Don't want any hug seeking unwary intruders to accidentally be killed after all.
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