Shoot um up

[Scott Campbell]

Again, what is the need for him to be outside?

Maybe he needed to get the mail, or wash his car. Or catch a breath of fresh air. Who really cares? It ain't illegal to "trespass" on your own front lawn.

Who is talking about legality. Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart to do it.

It is legal for you to walk down the street in whatever section of town you desire...but, it sure ain't smart.

Tyrone, where have I argued that this was smart? Has anyone here argued that this was smart?


Legality has been brought up repeatedly by Harlan with his references to "murder" and the OJ jury. I can't remember if you've brought up legality outside of loosely with your crazy death sentence rhetoric.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Again, what is the need for him to be outside?

Maybe he needed to get the mail, or wash his car. Or catch a breath of fresh air. Who really cares? It ain't illegal to "trespass" on your own front lawn.

Who is talking about legality. Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart to do it.

It is legal for you to walk down the street in whatever section of town you desire...but, it sure ain't smart.

Death sentence...did he not do exactly that. He said he was going to kill them and he did it.

That sounds like a death sentence to me.

Tyrone, where have I argued that this was smart? Has anyone here argued that this was smart?


Legality has been brought up repeatedly by Harlan with his references to "murder" and the OJ jury. I can't remember if you've brought up legality outside of loosely with your crazy death sentence rhetoric.

[Scott Campbell]

Again, what is the need for him to be outside?

Maybe he needed to get the mail, or wash his car. Or catch a breath of fresh air. Who really cares? It ain't illegal to "trespass" on your own front lawn.

Who is talking about legality. Just because something is legal doesn't make it smart to do it.

It is legal for you to walk down the street in whatever section of town you desire...but, it sure ain't smart.

Death sentence...did he not do exactly that. He said he was going to kill them and he did it.

That sounds like a death sentence to me.

Tyrone, where have I argued that this was smart? Has anyone here argued that this was smart?


Legality has been brought up repeatedly by Harlan with his references to "murder" and the OJ jury. I can't remember if you've brought up legality outside of loosely with your crazy death sentence rhetoric.

And you complained about my posts being screwed up?


I hope nobody assumes that that crazy crackhead shit came out of my mouth.

[Scott Campbell]

From the other thread:

...is that not a death sentence? Did he not carry it out?

Ok Mr. Bigguns. A death sentence is handed down by the state, and carried out by the state. Those two dudes just got themselves shot in a botched robbery attempt. There's a HUGE difference - even in crackhead land.

Don't be stupid here Ty.

A better analogy of a death sentence would be you trying to defend your silly statement.




And I'll add this - Joe Horn's actions don't fit my definition of carrying out a death sentence. I doubt any legal professional would accept your crazy ass use of the term. If you want to broaden the meaning so wide that it could possibly include this, well then God bless you. It certainly adds a dramatic flair to what happened. It's emotional, inflamatory rhetoric. I imagine that if the Lifetime channel were to make a made for tv movie sympathetic to the convicted felons, that they might try and pull on delicate heart strings with a term like "death sentence" in describing Joe Horn's actions.

[Deputy Nutz]

Again, you fail to acknowledge that he had a choice..he put himself in danger.

I consider that a partial truth. All 3 of them were responsible for being there, not just Joe.

Again, spin away. Who is talking about responsibility.

We are talking about choices? Horn had several.

Thank god he made the right one.

You are right he had several, instead of acting like a pussy he did something about it. I am sure he didn't just open fire on the criminals with a half dozen cops standing there watching him and cheering him on. I believe their was an off-duty cop there, not several squad cars.

You also fail to take into account that these criminals were probably still there because of Joe, who knows if the cops would have gotten there in time if Joe didn't take matters into his own hands.

I still find it difficult that you either choose to play the devils advocate, or you are defense lawyer, or just somebody that has a soft spot for criminal behavior.

[Scott Campbell]

Trying to run up your post totals again?

Are you typing from the safety of your closet you pussy?


Why don't you just answer the question? Or are you afraid of that too?

Which question?

Perhaps if you confined your limited retorts to one larger post it would be easier to address them. Nah, that would be smart.

Yeah, yeah Tyrone - I'm stupid. Whatever.

It's the 3rd post from the top of the page. Even Einstein could find it.

You implied that I spun something that I never said. I responded. That's how it's gonna work.

Oh, scott...you are so cute when you play the martyr.

LOL

Ok, so now I'm a stupid martyr. Anything else?

[Zool]

You smell like feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon.

[Scott Campbell]

You smell like feet wrapped in leathery burnt bacon.

Fair enough. I'm a stupid, smelly martyr.

[Partial]

Its just not worth it Scott. Someday when a guy trying to kill Ty comes into his humble abode we'll wait and see how he reacts.

[Scott Campbell]

Its just not worth it Scott.

I really think Joe Horn's actions are worth defending from this kind of slanderous speculation. There rhetoric might sound harmless, until the next Joe Horn decides to let his neighbors worry about their own damned stuff rather than be subjected to Harlan and Tyrone's accusations.

[MJZiggy]

Actually Scott has a point here. As far as I'm concerned, the criminals' (don't argue, it's what they were) rights ended when they crossed Mr. Horn's property line. And if they were Columbian crime ring members, I gotta believe that they don't look like Partial and his buddies trying to scam some beer outta your garage (that's not a race statement, it's in the way they move, carry themselves and act--nerds are nerds regardless of race). Horn had a right to go out and find out what was going on in his front yard, and if in so doing, he sensed himself in any kind of danger on his own property, he had the right to defend it. In the poll I chose to shoot to defend my property because if my property's in danger, it's quite likely I am too. See Sean Taylor.

Perhaps the dudes had the right to due process, but they gave up that right when they went after a guy with a shotgun who was trying to warn them off. Apparently stupidity trumps your right to due process. Darwinism at its finest if you ask me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

if anyone comes onto my property and threatens me I should be able to shoot them.

In this situation, Joe Horn announced his intention to "kill 'um" when he was watching them on his neighbor's property.

The question I asked was where is the exact point where killing someone becomes justified?

A few early posters gave thoughtful answers, FReak Out and a couple others. But the people arguing vehemently for Joe Horn have so far been unwilling to discuss their opinions in any detail. They just keep repeating mindless crap about the pussies on the other side. I guess they just don't want to think about it.

The poll responses show some thought and balance. The large majority only approve of deadly force for self-defense, or to end a violent situation. A handful of people voted that we should be able to kill whenever we observe any lawbreaking, but I imagine these people either are being wiseguys, or they haven't thought about the consequences. We'd all be in a 24x7 war zone.

[Harlan Huckleby]

the criminals' (don't argue, it's what they were) rights ended when they crossed Mr. Horn's property line. And if they were Columbian crime ring members, I gotta believe that they don't look like Partial and his buddies trying to scam some beer outta your garage

So are you saying it would be wrong to shoot Partial when he was stealing beer out of the garage?

Is your point that it is up to the shotgun holder to judge the character of the people he is about to waste before he pulls the trigger?

I say if it is OK to shoot the Columbians, then Partial ought to be executed too. Its impossible to judge a person in the middle of an apparent crime, well, other than to take note of the basics like their age, size, and race.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Its just not worth it Scott. Someday when a guy trying to kill Ty comes into his humble abode we'll wait and see how he reacts.

Um, partial, have you picked up on the fact that nobody in this thread has argued against the use of deadly force in self-defense?

[MJZiggy]

the criminals' (don't argue, it's what they were) rights ended when they crossed Mr. Horn's property line. And if they were Columbian crime ring members, I gotta believe that they don't look like Partial and his buddies trying to scam some beer outta your garage

So are you saying it would be wrong to shoot Partial when he was stealing beer out of the garage?

Is your point that it is up to the shotgun holder to judge the character of the people he is about to waste before he pulls the trigger?

I say if it is OK to shoot the Columbians, then Partial ought to be executed too. Its impossible to judge a person in the middle of an apparent crime, well, other than to take note of the basics like their age, size, and race.

I'm saying that it is rather easy to distinguish Partial (sorry, dude) from a member of a Columbian crime ring. I can guarantee you the Columbian will act with more purpose, confidence and in likely a more aggressive manner. If Partial is stealing beer and then comes into my yard approaching me, then it's my call and he's an idiot for not listening to someone with a shotgun telling him to freeze.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm saying that it is rather easy to distinguish Partial (sorry, dude) from a member of a Columbian crime ring. I can guarantee you the Columbian will act with more purpose, confidence and in likely a more aggressive manner. If Partial is stealing beer and then comes into my yard approaching me, then it's my call and he's an idiot for not listening to someone with a shotgun telling him to freeze.

How do you know the "columbian crime ring" guys aren't just stupid pool cleaners stealing from a client?

Would you feel justified in shooting Partial for stealing beer? Why or why not? Should you go to jail for doing it?

[MJZiggy]

When the stupid pool cleaners come onto my property and ignore me when I say "freeze," they (and Partial) become target practice. Moot point anyway, I keep dogs not guns. They make the decisions for me. But if I had a gun, I have the right to defend myself and my property. If they came onto his property, he was justified in defending himself.

No, I'm not going to shoot them over beer if they're walking away (ok, maybe a shot in the ass to give them something to think about), but my impression was that this is not what happened. The fact is that the grand jury chose not to indict. This means that whatever defense he gave was credible.

[mraynrand]

What happens a lot with these types of stories is that people sit and discuss in the comfort of their safe living rooms and speculate on how much force was necessary, whether you should wait for the cops etc. But how many have actually had to confront criminals? How the hell do you know if they're a first time kid, a hardened criminal, or a Jean Valjean type, desperately trying to save themselves or their family. The point is you don't know and if you take time for sympathy, you might end up dead yourself. You might anyway. You could also kill a pretty minor criminal too, and feel regret and/or suffer PTSD the rest of your life. All those things happen. But you just don't know.

An example. My uncle is a cop in northern Wisconsin. Often, they get Chicago crooks coming up who target a specific item - dirt bikes, DVRs, etc. And actually fill a van with the stuff. On a routine traffic stop for speeding, my uncle pulls over a Ryder van with a young guy (maybe 20-25ish) wearing a college baseball cap, clean-shaven. Guy talks to my Uncle, tells him he's a student returning from college with his stuff, gives him his license, and as my uncle returns to the squad car to run the license, he pull a gun and starts shooting. My uncle is lucky and isn't hit - gets back to his squad car, and starts shooting from behind his door. After exchanging fire for several minutes - with reloading, the 'kid' finally stops shooting. Backup arrives - they find the van stuffed with stolen shit and they check out the 'kid' - my uncle shot him 12 times. 11 fucking times and the guy was still alive and shooting. Turns out he was a first time offender. Nice kid. Good grades.

[Scott Campbell]

Actually Scott has a point here.

LOL


You say this like its the first time ever!

[MJZiggy]

Sounds like a therapist's dream. How has your uncle handled it? What'd the kid try to shoot the cop for? He likely wouldn't have spent that much time in Ripon.