OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[DannoMac21]

Woody, you say that we don't know the truth for certain about what transpired, then you assert as truth that we would have won it all in '08 (you meant '07 season I assume) if we had landed moss. How can you know that for certain??

I also would like to ask, while I'm at it, how you can say TT was using a "win later" approach, but landing that ONE player would have made us superbowl champions? I would think if your team is one player away from it all it can NOT be using a win later approach.

Hi there!

Miami still won't win (at least now). Artest smothers LeBron, Kobe can handle Wade, and Gasol puts the lapdog (Bosh) in his place. Lakers are still a better team, and have the better coach, with the best player in the game.

[cheesner]

The Moss Deal:

TT made the trade for Moss for a 4th round pick. The paperwork was to be signed the next day. Overnight, NE offered a 3rd and Al Davis took it rather than give TT a chance to up his offer. For the love of God! Do you expect TT to call up Al and say, 'look, we have this deal for a 4th round, but I would like to give you a 3rd instead.'?

Moss stated that he did not want to play for the Raiders. He would jog during plays that he wasn't going to get any passes. He ran different routes because he didn't want to go over the middle. He wouldn't block on running plays.

Moss stated that he did not want to play for the Packers. What makes you think he would have had any impact for us?

[woodbuck27]

"The point I tried to make wasn't in regard to the impact that Moss would have or not have made to our team had TT acquired him; but that TT fell asleep in the process of trying to acquire Moss and that had to really piss Brett Favre off."


Woody, we've been over this. You are assuming it was a slam dunk that everyone wanted this guy and that he would have improved the team. Can't you recognize that it's entirely possible that TT though not adding Moss was better than adding him? Or at the very least that TT thought Moss was worth so much and no more? And so what if it pissed Favre off. The Packers did just fine without Moss. Maybe TT if better at evaluating talent and putting a squad together with chemistry and so forth than Favre or anyone else would or will give him credit for - Try looking at it from a non-Favre perspective and see what you see.

This isn't a thread discussed from a non Favre perspective mraynrand.

Go back and check the record on this issue of the Packers and our GM. Your sharp at this stuff man.

TT said he attempted to and thought that he 'in fact' secured Randy Moss for our teams efforts in 2007.

There are people in this forum that will ignore this fact as they cannot imagine the likes of a Randy Moss in our colors, as a Green Bay Packer. These people may hold an animosity forever and are seldom open to seeing the benefit of a real talent on their team at the expense of their needs to despise forever a simple act or insult even one time years priior. That's too foolish for me to comprehend.

An example mraynrand:

Animosity and outrage over an incident like the time Randy Moss rubbed his ass on our goal post after scoring a TD. You re-call that incident don't you? What was that?

Well only this:

It's called gamesmanship and that's not usually sportsmanship.

Back to our fine GM and I mean that sincerely, as he has received praise and recognition for all his efforts inthe past. TT may have gone to school over the failure to follow-up on acquiring Randy Moss.

RE: this thread and it most certainly would apply. Favre held it together when he determined that TT failed to acquire Randy Moss. We all should agree here that Favre very much desired Randy Moss to toss to in 2008. Randy Moss in a Packer uniform made Favre's heart beat really fast. (check)

TT tried to get a deal done with Al Davis and Oakland and he felt he had succeeded. ( check)

Later and upon questioning his interest and failure to secure Randy Moss. TT admitting that he sincerely tried to acquire Randy Moss from Al Davis. He said 'in fact ' that when he retired for the night. That he felt that it was a done deal. That Randy Moss was destined to be a Green Bay Packer. That he had successfully secured Randy Moss at a price acceptable to both himself and Al Davis (Oakland).

As you may re-call mraynrand. That acquisition attempt happened just before the Sat. draft day ( wasn't it that Friday night? or was it later on Sat. night? ) of the 2007 Draft Weekend?

With all due respect. Your post is moot in terms related to the fact that TT felt he had acquired Randy Moss just prior to ending his day. That is an admission to me and to Favre of the fact he bobbled the ball in this issue of RandyMoss and him being a Green Bay Packer at the start of the 2007 season.

IMO. If we had Randy Moss. That ' as a fact ' was a far better proposition than not having him. I'm fairly sure back then that Favre would have agreed and the evidence only supports that mraynrand.

Later.... and GO Packers.

[ThunderDan]

"The point I tried to make wasn't in regard to the impact that Moss would have or not have made to our team had TT acquired him; but that TT fell asleep in the process of trying to acquire Moss and that had to really piss Brett Favre off."


Woody, we've been over this. You are assuming it was a slam dunk that everyone wanted this guy and that he would have improved the team. Can't you recognize that it's entirely possible that TT though not adding Moss was better than adding him? Or at the very least that TT thought Moss was worth so much and no more? And so what if it pissed Favre off. The Packers did just fine without Moss. Maybe TT if better at evaluating talent and putting a squad together with chemistry and so forth than Favre or anyone else would or will give him credit for - Try looking at it from a non-Favre perspective and see what you see.

This isn't a thread discussed from a non Favre perspective mraynrand.

Go back and check the record on this issue of the Packers and our GM. Your sharp at this stuff man.

TT said he attempted to and thought that he 'in fact' secured Randy Moss for our teams efforts in 2008.

There are people in this forum that will ignore this fact as they cannot imagine the likes of a Randy Moss in our colors, as a Green Bay Packer. These people may hold an animosity forever and are seldom open to seeing the benefit of a real talent on their team at the expense of their needs to despise forever a simple act or insult even one time years priior. That's too foolish for me to comprehend.

An example mraynrand:

Animosity and outrage over an incident like the time Randy Moss rubbed his ass on our goal post after scoring a TD. You re-call that incident don't you? What was that?

Well only this:

It's called gamesmanship and that's not usually sportsmanship.

Back to our fine GM and I mean that sincerely, as he has received praise and recognition for all his efforts inthe past. TT may have gone to school over the failure to follow-up on acquiring Randy Moss.

RE: this thread and it most certainly would apply. Favre held it together when he determined that TT failed to acquire Randy Moss. We all should agree here that Favre very much desired Randy Moss to toss to in 2008. Randy Moss in a Packer uniform made Favre's heart beat really fast. (check)

TT tried to get a deal done with Al Davis and Oakland and he felt he had succeeded. ( check)

Later and upon questioning his interest and failure to secure Randy Moss. TT admitting that he sincerely tried to acquire Randy Moss from Al Davis. He said 'in fact ' that when he retired for the night. That he felt that it was a done deal. That Randy Moss was destined to be a Green Bay Packer. That he had successfully secured Randy Moss at a price acceptable to both himself and Al Davis (Oakland).

As you may re-call mraynrand. That acquisition attempt happened just before the Sat. draft day ( wasn't it that Friday night? or was it later on Sat. night? ) of the 2008 Draft Weekend?

With all due respect. Your post is moot in terms related to the fact that TT felt he had acquired Randy Moss just prior to ending his day. That is an admission to me and to Favre of the fact he bobbled the ball in this issue of RandyMoss and him being a Green Bay Packer at the start of the 2008 season.

IMO. If we had Randy Moss. That ' as a fact ' was a far better proposition than not having him. I'm fairly sure back then that Favre would have agreed and the evidence only supports that mraynrand.

Later.... and GO Packers.

The really funny part about this is that he doesn't even know what year he is talking about. It was 2007 that TT thought he had gotten Moss from the Raiders for a 4th round pick.

It was the 2007 season that we made the NFC CHampionship game. A few weeks later BF had retired. It was 2007 that Moss put up the 23 TDs for NE. In 2008 BF was moved to NYJ and 2009 he went to MINN.

You are arguing facts in wrong years.

[woodbuck27]

The Moss Deal:

TT made the trade for Moss for a 4th round pick. The paperwork was to be signed the next day. Overnight, NE offered a 3rd and Al Davis took it rather than give TT a chance to up his offer. For the love of God! Do you expect TT to call up Al and say, 'look, we have this deal for a 4th round, but I would like to give you a 3rd instead.'?

Moss stated that he did not want to play for the Raiders. He would jog during plays that he wasn't going to get any passes. He ran different routes because he didn't want to go over the middle. He wouldn't block on running plays.

Moss stated that he did not want to play for the Packers. What makes you think he would have had any impact for us?

What makes you think he would have had any impact for us? cheesner

My response to the immediate above:

Because he's Randy Moss. woodbuck27

I'm just a Packer fan folks. You need not sharpen the knives. LOL it's not about what I think here in this thread but what Brett Favre may or likely felt. Isn't that where we are folks? That's where I am; so for the future. Please post accordingly. I'll appreciate it. and THANKS.


Yes Moss hated his time in Oakland and certainly demonstrated that fact. He wanted to play for a winner. He's an awesome talent and wants to win. Ala Favre. Stars are like that. Like that in most sports amatuer or Pro.


GO PACKERS!

Moss proved to us that he still had it in 2008. 23 TD's and a Pro Bowl under NE colors and recognized BEST WR in the NFL proves that's the TRUTH. He was wasted in Oakland. He's a star WR. I won't get into the ego or attitude of s0 called or deemed *stars*; but their ego is usually huge. That is part and parcel of their excellence. They're wired differently than most people.

[ThunderDan]

Randy Moss stats from NFL.com:

2009 New England Patriots 16 16 83 1,264 15.2 71T 13
2008 New England Patriots 16 16 69 1,008 14.6 76T 11
2007 New England Patriots 16 16 98 1,493 15.2 65T 23

I hope this helps show that Moss went to NE in 2007 to catch 23 TDs.

[woodbuck27]

"The point I tried to make wasn't in regard to the impact that Moss would have or not have made to our team had TT acquired him; but that TT fell asleep in the process of trying to acquire Moss and that had to really piss Brett Favre off."


Woody, we've been over this. You are assuming it was a slam dunk that everyone wanted this guy and that he would have improved the team. Can't you recognize that it's entirely possible that TT though not adding Moss was better than adding him? Or at the very least that TT thought Moss was worth so much and no more? And so what if it pissed Favre off. The Packers did just fine without Moss. Maybe TT if better at evaluating talent and putting a squad together with chemistry and so forth than Favre or anyone else would or will give him credit for - Try looking at it from a non-Favre perspective and see what you see.

This isn't a thread discussed from a non Favre perspective mraynrand.

Go back and check the record on this issue of the Packers and our GM. Your sharp at this stuff man.

TT said he attempted to and thought that he 'in fact' secured Randy Moss for our teams efforts in 2008.

There are people in this forum that will ignore this fact as they cannot imagine the likes of a Randy Moss in our colors, as a Green Bay Packer. These people may hold an animosity forever and are seldom open to seeing the benefit of a real talent on their team at the expense of their needs to despise forever a simple act or insult even one time years priior. That's too foolish for me to comprehend.

An example mraynrand:

Animosity and outrage over an incident like the time Randy Moss rubbed his ass on our goal post after scoring a TD. You re-call that incident don't you? What was that?

Well only this:

It's called gamesmanship and that's not usually sportsmanship.

Back to our fine GM and I mean that sincerely, as he has received praise and recognition for all his efforts inthe past. TT may have gone to school over the failure to follow-up on acquiring Randy Moss.

RE: this thread and it most certainly would apply. Favre held it together when he determined that TT failed to acquire Randy Moss. We all should agree here that Favre very much desired Randy Moss to toss to in 2008. Randy Moss in a Packer uniform made Favre's heart beat really fast. (check)

TT tried to get a deal done with Al Davis and Oakland and he felt he had succeeded. ( check)

Later and upon questioning his interest and failure to secure Randy Moss. TT admitting that he sincerely tried to acquire Randy Moss from Al Davis. He said 'in fact ' that when he retired for the night. That he felt that it was a done deal. That Randy Moss was destined to be a Green Bay Packer. That he had successfully secured Randy Moss at a price acceptable to both himself and Al Davis (Oakland).

As you may re-call mraynrand. That acquisition attempt happened just before the Sat. draft day ( wasn't it that Friday night? or was it later on Sat. night? ) of the 2008 Draft Weekend?

With all due respect. Your post is moot in terms related to the fact that TT felt he had acquired Randy Moss just prior to ending his day. That is an admission to me and to Favre of the fact he bobbled the ball in this issue of RandyMoss and him being a Green Bay Packer at the start of the 2008 season.

IMO. If we had Randy Moss. That ' as a fact ' was a far better proposition than not having him. I'm fairly sure back then that Favre would have agreed and the evidence only supports that mraynrand.

Later.... and GO Packers.

The really funny part about this is that he doesn't even know what year he is talking about. It was 2007 that TT thought he had gotten Moss from the Raiders for a 4th round pick.

It was the 2007 season that we made the NFC CHampionship game. A few weeks later BF had retired. It was 2007 that Moss put up the 23 TDs for NE. In 2008 BF was moved to NYJ and 2009 he went to MINN.

You are arguing facts in wrong years.

Sure in your need to put down anyone that may have a point you disagree with you have to draw on small minded stuff to propose your the man.

I simply admit my error man.

Yes all that Moss and maybe becoming a Packer stuff went down
(April - 2007) and that preceded Favre going to ' the Jets ' for the 2008 season and ohh my gosh THANKS again, I forgot. Favre becoming a Viking last season or in 2009.

Thanks for the help.

THANKS for helping me get that ' absolutely ' correct.

NO better 'of course' your always right. I've noticed that.

[woodbuck27]

"The point I tried to make wasn't in regard to the impact that Moss would have or not have made to our team had TT acquired him; but that TT fell asleep in the process of trying to acquire Moss and that had to really piss Brett Favre off."


Woody, we've been over this. You are assuming it was a slam dunk that everyone wanted this guy and that he would have improved the team. Can't you recognize that it's entirely possible that TT though not adding Moss was better than adding him? Or at the very least that TT thought Moss was worth so much and no more? And so what if it pissed Favre off. The Packers did just fine without Moss. Maybe TT if better at evaluating talent and putting a squad together with chemistry and so forth than Favre or anyone else would or will give him credit for - Try looking at it from a non-Favre perspective and see what you see.

This isn't a thread discussed from a non Favre perspective mraynrand.

Go back and check the record on this issue of the Packers and our GM. Your sharp at this stuff man.

TT said he attempted to and thought that he 'in fact' secured Randy Moss for our teams efforts in 2007.

There are people in this forum that will ignore this fact as they cannot imagine the likes of a Randy Moss in our colors, as a Green Bay Packer. These people may hold an animosity forever and are seldom open to seeing the benefit of a real talent on their team at the expense of their needs to despise forever a simple act or insult even one time years priior. That's too foolish for me to comprehend.

An example mraynrand:

Animosity and outrage over an incident like the time Randy Moss rubbed his ass on our goal post after scoring a TD. You re-call that incident don't you? What was that?

Well only this:

It's called gamesmanship and that's not usually sportsmanship.

Back to our fine GM and I mean that sincerely, as he has received praise and recognition for all his efforts inthe past. TT may have gone to school over the failure to follow-up on acquiring Randy Moss.

RE: this thread and it most certainly would apply. Favre held it together when he determined that TT failed to acquire Randy Moss. We all should agree here that Favre very much desired Randy Moss to toss to in 2007. Randy Moss in a Packer uniform made Favre's heart beat really fast. (check)

TT tried to get a deal done with Al Davis and Oakland and he felt he had succeeded. ( check)

Later and upon questioning his interest and failure to secure Randy Moss. TT admitting that he sincerely tried to acquire Randy Moss from Al Davis. He said 'in fact ' that when he retired for the night. That he felt that it was a done deal. That Randy Moss was destined to be a Green Bay Packer. That he had successfully secured Randy Moss at a price acceptable to both himself and Al Davis (Oakland).

As you may re-call mraynrand. That acquisition attempt happened just before the Sat. draft day ( wasn't it that Friday night? or was it later on Sat. night? ) of the 2007 Draft Weekend?

With all due respect. Your post is moot in terms related to the fact that TT felt he had acquired Randy Moss just prior to ending his day. That is an admission to me and to Favre of the fact he bobbled the ball in this issue of RandyMoss and him being a Green Bay Packer at the start of the 2007 season.

IMO. If we had Randy Moss. That ' as a fact ' was a far better proposition than not having him. I'm fairly sure back then that Favre would have agreed and the evidence only supports that mraynrand.

Later.... and GO Packers.

The really funny part about this is that he doesn't even know what year he is talking about. It was 2007 that TT thought he had gotten Moss from the Raiders for a 4th round pick.

It was the 2007 season that we made the NFC CHampionship game. A few weeks later BF had retired. It was 2007 that Moss put up the 23 TDs for NE. In 2008 BF was moved to NYJ and 2009 he went to MINN.

You are arguing facts in wrong years.

[Bossman641]

WB

Just a few quick points.

You are right that we don't know the whole story, but I feel when you look at what we do know it is heavily weighted towards TT.

Favre is the one who went on TV to plead his case. What horrible facts did we learn as to how he had been so wronged? None. The Packers sent out a very thorough, very detailed timeline regarding what happened in regards to contact with Favre, scheduling a plane to announce his retirement, Favre calling back and saying forget it. Guess what? Favre couldn't deny or refute any of it. That right there tells me that there was a lot more truth in the organization's story then Favre's. Why would Favre have held anything back? He was already burning bridges as it was.

If Favre's main complaint was that TT wouldn't let him play GM, then then boo fuckin boo. That wasn't his job and he had no right to play GM.

Moreover, look at how Favre has acted since then. Retired from the Jets and then asked for his retirement "just because." Booked hotel rooms the weekend of Packers-Vikings game while still a member of the Jets.

When it comes down to a truth-telling contest between the Packers and Favre there is no question in my mind who I should believe. Favre hasn't given me reason to believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

Woodbuck I am awaiting your reply.

[ThunderDan]

The really funny part about this is that he doesn't even know what year he is talking about. It was 2007 that TT thought he had gotten Moss from the Raiders for a 4th round pick.

It was the 2007 season that we made the NFC CHampionship game. A few weeks later BF had retired. It was 2007 that Moss put up the 23 TDs for NE. In 2008 BF was moved to NYJ and 2009 he went to MINN.

You are arguing facts in wrong years.

Sure in your need to put down anyone that may have a point you disagree with you have to draw on small minded stuff to propose your the man.

I simply admit my error man.

Yes all that Moss and maybe becoming a Packer stuff went down
(April - 2007) and that preceded Favre going to ' the Jets ' for the 2008 season and ohh my gosh THANKS again, I forgot. Favre becoming a Viking last season or in 2009.

Thanks for the help.

THANKS for helping me get that ' absolutely ' correct.

NO better 'of course' your always right. I've noticed that.

Actually, I wanted to clarify because a 2008 timeline supports your position of Favre feeling TT wasn't supporting a 2008 run for the Super Bowl and Favre then wanting out.

[Cheesehead Craig]

But why is the rum gone?

[woodbuck27]

No Man. Favre had to want to get far away from TT, as it was obvious to me and other's here that TT was not on the same page as Brett Favre RE: win now.

How can you write stuff like this? It's demonstrably and obviously untrue. A team one play away from the Superbowl cannot possibly be equated in any way with a win later attitude. This is so bizarre. (Cue the four page response....)

Yes your correct too mraynrand;and I'm writing in the context of Favre Vs TT's effort Re: agreeing with Favre and obtaining Randy Moss and that failure on TT's part to try to get Moss and not close the deal.

What issue came up between TT and Favre 'over that specific issue', that may have caused a real dissention between them that led to the final break in 2008? Was Favre fed up with TT's failure to set the 2007 season up to make us look like a very solid contender? In spite of that failure to get Moss. Favre worked it out within himself and had a very decent season in 2007, as far as his personal numbers went and the teams regular season record was steller.

GO Packers !

[woodbuck27]

The really funny part about this is that he doesn't even know what year he is talking about. It was 2007 that TT thought he had gotten Moss from the Raiders for a 4th round pick.

It was the 2007 season that we made the NFC CHampionship game. A few weeks later BF had retired. It was 2007 that Moss put up the 23 TDs for NE. In 2008 BF was moved to NYJ and 2009 he went to MINN.

You are arguing facts in wrong years.

Sure in your need to put down anyone that may have a point you disagree with you have to draw on small minded stuff to propose your the man.

I simply admit my error man.

Yes all that Moss and maybe becoming a Packer stuff went down
(April - 2007) and that preceded Favre going to ' the Jets ' for the 2008 season and ohh my gosh THANKS again, I forgot. Favre becoming a Viking last season or in 2009.

Thanks for the help.

THANKS for helping me get that ' absolutely ' correct.

NO better 'of course' your always right. I've noticed that.

Actually, I wanted to clarify because a 2008 timeline supports your position of Favre feeling TT wasn't supporting a 2008 run for the Super Bowl and Favre then wanting out.

Good grief man!

Favre didn't want out. He didn't want to be a back-up either and that's what was offered him by TT and MM, even given the way he performed in 2007 ThunderDan. That performance was a steller one overall.

Favre as a backup? That's too funny.

GO PACKERS!

[falco]

[MJZiggy]

But why is the rum gone?

There's rum? For the love of god, send it my way. Why are we rehashing this all 3 years later. We put this thing to bed so many times we're running out of beds.

[woodbuck27]

The really funny part about this is that he doesn't even know what year he is talking about. It was 2007 that TT thought he had gotten Moss from the Raiders for a 4th round pick.

It was the 2007 season that we made the NFC CHampionship game. A few weeks later BF had retired. It was 2007 that Moss put up the 23 TDs for NE. In 2008 BF was moved to NYJ and 2009 he went to MINN.

You are arguing facts in wrong years.

Sure in your need to put down anyone that may have a point you disagree with you have to draw on small minded stuff to propose your the man.

I simply admit my error man.

Yes all that Moss and maybe becoming a Packer stuff went down
(April - 2007) and that preceded Favre going to ' the Jets ' for the 2008 season and ohh my gosh THANKS again, I forgot. Favre becoming a Viking last season or in 2009.

Thanks for the help.

THANKS for helping me get that ' absolutely ' correct.

NO better 'of course' your always right. I've noticed that.

Actually, I wanted to clarify because a 2008 timeline supports your position of Favre feeling TT wasn't supporting a 2008 run for the Super Bowl and Favre then wanting out.

Ahhhh excuse me but I believe that TT and MM knew exactly what role Favre was going to be playing in 2008. I believe that one day 'the real story' will reveal that TRUTH.

TT wanted to go to Aaron Rodgers and had to play it cute. He wanted to make the Packers his team and the only obstacle to that result was Favre and his strong desire to win now. Favre wanted TT to fuel the team to be really solid, as we saw Wolf do when we last won the Super Bowl. TT was always 'the plodder'.

I believe we will one day learn that; that plodding style of TT's, annoyed Brett Favre as it did some members here. I believe that he informed TT of that and their relationship became strained.

Maybe we'll find that Favre and TT were more than less on the same page too. They both realized it was time to divorce. For Aaron Rodgers to get his career really started.

I felt thatb way and I love Brett Favre. I wanted him anywhere but in a Packer uniform. I couldn't handle TT anymore in terms of the way he certainly appeared to me to be holding back.

I will never change my position on this folks. It's just too clear to me. I watched it all too closely.

GO PACK GO.

[woodbuck27]

WB

Just a few quick points.

You are right that we don't know the whole story, but I feel when you look at what we do know it is heavily weighted towards TT.

Favre is the one who went on TV to plead his case. What horrible facts did we learn as to how he had been so wronged? None. The Packers sent out a very thorough, very detailed timeline regarding what happened in regards to contact with Favre, scheduling a plane to announce his retirement, Favre calling back and saying forget it. Guess what? Favre couldn't deny or refute any of it. That right there tells me that there was a lot more truth in the organization's story then Favre's. Why would Favre have held anything back? He was already burning bridges as it was.

If Favre's main complaint was that TT wouldn't let him play GM, then then boo fuckin boo. That wasn't his job and he had no right to play GM.

Moreover, look at how Favre has acted since then. Retired from the Jets and then asked for his retirement "just because." Booked hotel rooms the weekend of Packers-Vikings game while still a member of the Jets.

When it comes down to a truth-telling contest between the Packers and Favre there is no question in my mind who I should believe. Favre hasn't given me reason to believe a single word that comes out of his mouth.

Woodbuck I am awaiting your reply.

Sorry but right now I have an audience with 'the Pope'.

GO PACK GO!

[MichiganPackerFan]

[Fritz]

Favre didn't really "betray" anyone. It's a business and he wanted to work at the place of his choice.

He handled it badly. Butchered it. Showed himself to be more selfish and manipulative than people had hoped. Threw a few folks under busses attempting to make himself appear to be an "innocent" when he was not, at all.

But he didn't "betray" anyone.

Still, I liked that sign!

[Scott Campbell]

I would very much enjoy seeing him get smacked around again tonight.