OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[HowardRoark]

[Pugger]

?????????



That Peppers made the statement is not a rumor, that is fact. The question is if one is to believe Peppers. Why is Peppers any less credible than Favre? You have chosen not to believe Peppers, and to believe Favre's statements about holding no animosity. I chose to believe Peppers for several reasons:

1. Peppers has no apparent reason to have fabricated the story.2. Peppers statement about Favre is consistent with other things I have observed from and about Favre.
3. I have experienced what I believe is Favre being less than factual in statements in the past.

From that, my analysis leads me to believe that Peppers was probably accurate in relaying the conversation with Favre, even if it portrays an inconsistent picture with reputation-saving comments made by Favre shortly thereafter.

This is why I also believe Peppers.

[Scott Campbell]

In summary:

I can't quite hate on Ted the way I used to.
I can't quite love on Bert the way I used to.
If you forget everything I've been saying the last 5 years - I was right all along.


That's what I'm reading anyway.

[Scott Campbell]

"I'll lay this down before responding to some of the posts I just read. What is your analysis of this bit of NFL news. I havn't as yet checked for a reaction fr. any other rumor sites. I have too much else on my plate today to look into it. Frankly I'm again surprized that Favre would contimplate a return unless that prospect is about his love of competing in the game, and that with Carolina? That's a dubious choice of destination to say the least in my estimation" woodbuck27

I don't think ole Bert is employable in the NFL anymore. Maybe some CFL team in need of a freakshow to sell tickets would take him, but that's about it.

[MadScientist]

I don't think ole Bert is employable in the NFL anymore. Maybe some CFL team in need of a freakshow to sell tickets would take him, but that's about it.

Carolina is close enough to a CFL team, besides Bert has shown a liking for southern chicks.

Still Cincy might be a better fit, with their love of freak shows.

[woodbuck27]

?????????



That Peppers made the statement is not a rumor, that is fact. The question is if one is to believe Peppers. Why is Peppers any less credible than Favre? You have chosen not to believe Peppers, and to believe Favre's statements about holding no animosity. I chose to believe Peppers for several reasons:

1. Peppers has no apparent reason to have fabricated the story.
2. Peppers statement about Favre is consistent with other things I have observed from and about Favre.
3. I have experienced what I believe is Favre being less than factual in statements in the past.

From that, my analysis leads me to believe that Peppers was probably accurate in relaying the conversation with Favre, even if it portrays an inconsistent picture with reputation-saving comments made by Favre shortly thereafter.

I certainly understand your stance and why you arrived there.

I hold that Favre has gone on the record as well as saying he had no ill feelings RE: the Green Bay Packers and it's management.

The thing RE: J. Peppers if it's true and I respect your analysis that it is a fact that Favre made such comments to J. Peppers. Allowing that I maintain that would be then mere gamesmanship. That's common in Pro sports and IMO needs no overt fan reaction in terms related to any distain for 'the fact'. To allow for distane only supports ongoing distane for Brett Favre. IMO useless and small.

a) After the Packers won the NFC Championship he clearly came out predicting a Packer win in the Super Bowl. Rumor or not that has to weigh in for Favre not feeling animosity for the Green Bay Packers.

b) That plus the statements made in the NY Jets interview may count as two if we're being fair. I'll give you one for the J. Peppers remarks in the media even thoug that may be characterized as 'throwing Favre under a bus'.

(-: That's a 2-1 for Favre and 'no animosity for the Green Bay Packers'.

I'll add this. What happened to Randy Moss when he made favorable comments about Bill Belichick and his tenure as a NE Pat? He was shoved out of Minnesota pronto after that innoscent error that wasn't in terms of the powers in Minny.

and this.... Patler. Did you want or expect that Favre was going to say to J. Peppers that "I hope that Packers defeat the Bears?" You should never have been made aware of any such comments in the first place except for Peppers throwing Favre under the bus.

The comments about Favre and in terms of a personal conversation Favre had with J. Peppers. According to Peppers. Should hold little weight. Peppers was out of line going to the media with any content of a personal and private conversation he had with Brett Favre.

GO Packers !

[channtheman]

"I find your recent response to be extremely strange, based on your earlier statement." Patler

I'm not at all sure what response you refer to Patler. I will stick to the last question in my last post to you.

What is strange about claiming it might (might not) be abnormal for anyone to not wish anyone or any organization best wishes after departing that relationship for whatever reason? It's a personal choice. If the facts prove that Favre feels animosity for the Packer Organization that is simply of his free will. Animosities are sometimes carried fr. one generation to the next. As a bystander it's not my position of choice to judge the parties involved.

In this instance I am a mere fan. I observe all the bad feelings with only some amusement. It's not my place to choose sides. I'm a mere fan of the NFL and as a Packer fan try to detach myself from any of the 'he said-he said' malarky. So much of what we read on the Favre issues are merely media driven hype. I don't know nor really care what's published.

"I merely responded to your allegation that Favre was beyond his initial hurt feelings. " Patler

Favre clearly made that as a statement of fact in his recognition of the issue on his final games post interview as a NY Jet. He clearly said that he felt both sides had moved on. It was no longer an issue.

If Julius Peppers threw him under the bus with reports of Favre hoping that the Bears defeated the Packers. That is a mere rumour. It should not be held against Favre as anything more than an unsubstatiated claim by Julius Peppers. It is just rumor.

"Is it unusual that Favre feel negatively toward the Packers? I doubt it, and nearly said so in my initial response to you." Patler

So we agree here.

Your position that any such slam against Favre as to whether he told Peppers or not that 'he hoped the Bears would defeat the Packers' ... is moot.

It wouldn't be unusual for Favre to feel negative against the Packers. You agree that isn't an abnormal stance if that is 'the truth'.

"While I think his continued animosity is not necessarily unusual, I am not ready to say it is common." Patler

That's a debatable topic Patler that would lead nowhere. It so often comes down to a judgement based position by anyone allowing the matter to affect them over any parties concerned. To act emotional over matters that are beyond our reach of full understanding as we are mere fans and not inside the parties involved. I feel in the Favrew issue thathis claim that both sides made mistakes is most likely the case. I leave it there.

"I fear that Favre is still consumed by his anger. " Patler

Have you personally observed Favre's anger? If you havn't then how can you ever offer such a possibility?

" I see no other reason for him to encourage Peppers to beat GB as he did, when he did. I said at the time that it happened that it was a odd thought for him to have at that time. It was an odd subject for his conversational prioritization with Julius Peppers, on the last day they are likely to meet on the field as competitors. His desire to see the Packers fail was an unusually high priority three seasons after his departure from GB. "

No. If 'in fact' Favre wanted that or a Packer defeat by the Bears. That's only gamesnmanship. If any two teams are matched up it's not abnormal to choose one team over the other. Maybe Favre did support the Bears. That isn't reason to attack him as some suffering emotional incompetant. The Bears and Vikings are rivals of the Packers. Is it abnormal for any member of those teams to support the other in defeating 'the Pack'? I say hardly. I don't see that as abnormal rather normal.

What does three years after have to do with the price of tea in China? Favre played on a rival team last season.

" For some reason you remain emotionally hinged to Favre, to the point that you ignore many negative facts, no matter how blatant." Patler

No Patler. I am not...NOT...emotionally hinged to Brett Favre. That is me telling you 'the TRUTH'. I will always take the stance that Favre was a fine QB in the NFL. End of story.

Please. Don't interpret or impose an emotional tag on me when that tag is wrong. I do not feel emotionally attached to anyone that cannot raise such emotion in me for a valid reason. I have never met Brett Fvare. I likely never will meet Brett Favre. I certainly do not defend some of his past behaviours that hurt so many of his fans and certainly took his immediate and other family to task. I got right there after a lot of analysis and thinking.

Brettt Favre and what he does with his private life is no concern of mine. I supported Favre the football player and in that regard alone. Brett Fvare was a very solid QB in the NFL. I support his record as such overall and the rest of it is certainly beyond my scope to judge. He like me is human and errors.

" I have never understood how any fan can so emotionally attach themselves to an athlete that they put them on god-like pedestals, and continually ignore their negative sides. " Patler

1. I'm not emotionally attached to Brett Favre.

2. I have never placed Brett Favre on any God-like pedestal

3. I have moved on as a fan of the Packers ( Re: anytrhing Brett Favre) and it's my position that a lot more here at PackerRats should take the same stride. It's the emotional outbursts of those people that I feel paints them in a poor light. They are who they are and I am who I am and we co-exist here. One big happy family. (-:

4. Believe me and I am onn record as saying that I wasn't pleased with all the scandal that Brett Favre was faced with. I believe he ws guilty of some of the claims against him. He has and possibly will continue to pat whatever price. All that is beyond my realm of concern.

I supported and will support Brett Favre the NFL QB 'only', and it ends there.

Now Patler after all that. Have we really begun to debate the issue I raised in the previous post?

GO PACKERS!

Oh come on Woodbuck! Who's gonna read this whole post?

[woodbuck27]

Carolina is close enough to a CFL team, besides Bert has shown a liking for southern chicks.

Still Cincy might be a better fit, with their love of freak shows.

Brett Favre is finally retired. This media blip is much to do about nothing.

If Favre was going to return to the NFL he's smart enough to know he needs a solid OL. That was his greatest problem in Minny last season. His OL certainly didn't provide him the protection he required to make his reads. That plus his lack of weapons at WR went a long way towords his dramatical decline from the previous season in Minny.

GO Packers !

[woodbuck27]

Oh come on Woodbuck! Who's gonna read this whole post?

It wasn't directed to you. So just ignore it.

[Patler]

and this.... Patler. Did you want or expect that Favre was going to say to J. Peppers that "I hope that Packers defeat the Bears?" You should never have been made aware of any such comments in the first place except for Peppers throwing Favre under the bus.

I would have expected Favre to say nothing at all about the Packer/Bear game. Why should he? They spoke only briefly. I wouldn't have expected the subject to even come up. Comments like: "Good luck in the playoffs." "Good luck the rest of the year." would have made sense, but imploring him to beat the Packers specifically showed an importance to Favre that is inconsistent with his personal protestations of holding no animosity toward the Packers.

The comments about Favre and in terms of a personal conversation Favre had with J. Peppers. According to Peppers. Should hold little weight. Peppers was out of line going to the media with any content of a personal and private conversation he had with Brett Favre.

It was hardly a personal and private conversation when it was conducted in a mass of reporters in the middle of a football field. It was certainly not as private of a conversation as those between Packer officials and Favre that were conducted behind closed doors, and which Favre had no qualms about relaying to the press even when he was asked not to.



I could swear there was a video of the Peppers/Favre encounter in which you could barely make out what Favre said (especially after Peppers explained), but I have been unable to find it now. Anyone else remember seeing it back then?

[Patler]

If Favre was going to return to the NFL he's smart enough to know he needs a solid OL. That was his greatest problem in Minny last season. His OL certainly didn't provide him the protection he required to make his reads. That plus his lack of weapons at WR went a long way towords his dramatical decline from the previous season in Minny.

...or, Favre just got old and isn't very good anymore. It isn't always someone else's fault.

[Pugger]

I would have expected Favre to say nothing at all about the Packer/Bear game. Why should he? They spoke only briefly. I wouldn't have expected the subject to even come up. Comments like: "Good luck in the playoffs." "Good luck the rest of the year." would have made sense, but imploring him to beat the Packers specifically showed an importance to Favre that is inconsistent with his personal protestations of holding no animosity toward the Packers.




It was hardly a personal and private conversation when it was conducted in a mass of reporters in the middle of a football field. It was certainly not as private of a conversation as those between Packer officials and Favre that were conducted behind closed doors, and which Favre had no qualms about relaying to the press even when he was asked not to.



I could swear there was a video of the Peppers/Favre encounter in which you could barely make out what Favre said (especially after Peppers explained), but I have been unable to find it now. Anyone else remember seeing it back then?

I didn't find a video of this exchange but enough media outlets outside of WI reported it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-the-packers/

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nfl/favre-...beat-packers/#

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/12/22/favr...t-the-packers/

[RashanGary]

Woodbuck, you're making conversation but not making sense. Don't confuse the two.

Favre's comments to Peppers should be discarded because Peppers is trying to throw him under the bus. His chosen comments to the media should be taken as fact with no questioning of sincerity. Haha. Go rub Favre's back and suck his toes. That's about all you're good for when it relates to Brett Favre.

[Scott Campbell]

I hold that Favre has gone on the record as well as saying he had no ill feelings RE: the Green Bay Packers and it's management.

You mean the Favre that went on the record as saying he didn't talk to Matt Millen?

You mean the Favre that later went on the record as saying he did talk to Millen, but it was about "hunting"?

[LP]

It isn't always someone else's fault.

It is if Berts involved.

[woodbuck27]

...or, Favre just got old and isn't very good anymore. It isn't always someone else's fault.

Now that response leaves me wondering about your 'objective' analytical skills.

The point I'm trying to make in this discussion with you Patler, and noone else here at PackerRats. Is that IMO many here including you. may be clouded in your analysis by a certain prejudice against Brett Favre. Many here hate the man. I do not place you in that category. You may be prejudiced and I hope not. Why? Because that would slant your view of Brett Favre.

I can re-call the exact moment I was sure that Fvare was guilty of the accusations against him that I was shocked at. I posted pbmax as to his view on that matter. He informed me that in his most definite view. That video was of Brett Favre.

I got that from pbmax. That was good enough for me.

Now back to this debate with you Patler:

Fair analysis of Brett Favre and last season must consider the failure to protect him. With a well functioning OL I believe he would have not gotten as banged up. He would have had better timing and some better option to role out of the pocket 'only' when necessary. Not retreat as often as he ws forced to.

I also stand on the fact that the Vikings were weak at WR and that hurt Favre. The drops early in last season were over the top. He can never be criticized for his courage Patler. He can never be criticized for the strength of his arm. His mental game is competent. He needed time for reads and WR's to go to and catch the throws that so often were right on the money and the catch blown.

I maintain that he very well could play at a high level in the NFL yet can only guess if he will. I hope he stays away from the game but he may feel a need to vindicate himself.

Favre also has a big ego. That gets him in some trouble. (-:

GO PACKERS!

[Patler]

Funny, per your expression anyone who criticizes Favre's abilities is prejudiced and not objective. However, if you ignore the rather obvious signs of decline you think of yourself as objective. It makes no sense.

If you think Favre is anything near the thrower he was 10 years ago, pull up some old highlights of him. Watch the way he played 10 years ago or so, then came back and tell me he hasn't declined significantly.

Where I disagree Woodbuck is that I am not willing to blame the line for all of the protection problems. Favre's quickness has declined noticeably the last two seasons, much more in 2010 than in 2009. In all likelihood, that will get only worse. That leads to more pressure, more throws under duress even if he does get the throw off. His famed fastball and quick release have also declined, in my opinion. That leads to fewer completions unless he enlarges the windows he will throw into. Last year he did not, and it lead to lots of interceptions.

With Favre's ankle and hip problems, his legs will only get worse. With his thumb, elbow and shoulder problems he will not be able to deliver the ball into situations he did in the past.

This happens with all the great throwers. They get old and decline. They have a bad year, and fans think its an aberration or the fault of others. Given a chance, their hero will certainly show he can still do it. Mostly, they don't.

[Zool]

I know you like a good debate Patler, but you're not going to find it here.

[Scott Campbell]

The big hits have seemed to take a much bigger toll on old Bert. I guess that's to be expected.

[RashanGary]

The big hits have seemed to take a much bigger toll on old Bert. I guess that's to be expected.

His ankle is done.