OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[Carolina_Packer]

Interesting quote from the Favre presser.

Favre: "I think last year and the year before I was tired and it took awhile but I came back. Something told me this time not to come back. It took awhile once again. Once again, I wondered if it was the right decision. But I think in my situation, and I had this conversation with Mike and Ted, that it's a unique situation in that at 17 years I had one of the better years in my career, the team had a great year, everything seems to be going great, the team wants me back, I still can play, for the most part everyone would think I would be back, would want me back. That's a unique situation going into an 18th season. There's no guarantees next year, personally and as a team, and I'm well aware of that. It's a tough business and last year and the year before I questioned whether or not I should come back because I didn't play at a high enough level. Other people questioned that. I really didn't question my commitment. I just wondered, 'Could I not play anymore?' I know I can play. But this year, and this is not the first year but it really to me and Deanna was more noticeable, the stress part of it. It's demanding. It always has been, but I think as I've gotten older I'm much more aware of that. I'm much more aware of how hard it is to win in this league and to play at a high level. I'm not up to the challenge anymore. I can play, but I'm not up to the challenge. You can't just show up and play for three hours on Sunday. If you could, there'd be a lot more people doing it and they'd be doing it for a lot longer. I have way too much pride, I expect a lot out of myself, and if I cannot do those things 100 percent, then I can't play."

From BF's own words in March MM & TT want him back as the starting QB in 2008.

Interesting to read again. I see humility and understanding here from what he's saying. So, how did he get to these kinds of big picture thoughts in March 2008 all the way to scorched cheese in July/August 2008? Was it the fact that they wouldn't just let him waltz back in and have his job back? "Hey, you said I could still play and you wanted me back!" Or, was he mad that TT wouldn't give him his outright release? If he was really mad about either thing, then he wasn't thinking straight at that point, or was getting some bad advice in his ear. My favorite (not) at the time was all the people associated with the Favre camp going to the media saying that he felt under-appreciated. What horse hockey all that business was. Did he sound bitter in that piece that Thunder Dan transcribed? Not one bit. What happened in the 5 months that followed to make him behave like he did? That's what I'll always wonder about that whole situation.

[Patler]

Here is a question I have asked myself many times, one that I don't have the answer for:

If BF had spent the bulk of his career playing on a team I cared little for, and basically duplicated his record setting performance for them, complete with his personal trials and tribulations. If he then ended his career for them with a private locker room, 5 years of threatened retirements, years of playing junior GM, the same late career playoff performances and an official retirement and unretirement. If he then took to the national airwaves to denigrate the franchise. If he was then traded to the Jets, did all the same things there both on and off the field, including comments about and actions against his former team and propositions/sexting to female empoyees. If he then went to his former team's chief competitor and finished out his career there much like he did in MN:

If I watched all that from afar as a Packer fan with no emotional tie to Brett Favre, what would I think of him?

Should I think differently just because he DID play for my favorite team?

I can't answer the first, but I answer the second, "NO".

[Zool]

Here is a question I have asked myself many times, one that I don't have the answer for:

If BF had spent the bulk of his career playing on a team I cared little for, and basically duplicated his record setting performance for them, complete with his personal trials and tribulations. If he then ended his career for them with a private locker room, 5 years of threatened retirements, years of playing junior GM, the same late career playoff performances and an official retirement and unretirement. If he then took to the national airwaves to denigrate the franchise. If he was then traded to the Jets, did all the same things there both on and off the field, including comments about and actions against his former team and propositions/sexting to female empoyees. If he then went to his former team's chief competitor and finished out his career there much like he did in MN:

If I watched all that from afar as a Packer fan with no emotional tie to Brett Favre, what would I think of him?

Should I think differently just because he DID play for my favorite team?

I can't answer the first, but I answer the second, "NO".

What do you think of the way LeBron James treated Cleveland? A classless individual is just that, no matter where they play.

[Patler]

What do you think of the way LeBron James treated Cleveland? A classless individual is just that, no matter where they play.

Sure, but I find Favre to being lacking in class anyway. The Brett Favre situation goes well beyond how Lebron James acted toward Cleveland. I think I might see Favre as much lower than just classless.

[Upnorth]

Sure, but I find Favre to being lacking in class anyway. The Brett Favre situation goes well beyond how Lebron James acted toward Cleveland. I think I might see Favre as much lower than just classless.

I think the Cavalier fans would say the same about Lebron, its all perspective.

[Patler]

I think the Cavalier fans would say the same about Lebron, its all perspective.

Lebron treated the franchise poorly concerning if he would or wouldn't leave, and said a few things about the franchise. But I'm not aware of anything that went on for more than the one off season, anything rising to the level of Favre's criticism of the franchise, or his continued actions to undermine the franchise after he left. I'm not aware of anything approaching Favre actions toward female employees.

[Zool]

Sure, but I find Favre to being lacking in class anyway. The Brett Favre situation goes well beyond how Lebron James acted toward Cleveland. I think I might see Favre as much lower than just classless.

The Packers were dragged through months/years of shit because of him. I guess in thinking about it further, being a Packer fan is cause for a little more vitriol for ol' #4. I'd rather not see my team of choice in the news for anything other than what happens on the field.

[Patler]

The Packers were dragged through months/years of shit because of him. I guess in thinking about it further, being a Packer fan is cause for a little more vitriol for ol' #4. I'd rather not see my team of choice in the news for anything other than what happens on the field.

Good point, maybe I simply wouldn't care.

[Upnorth]

What do you think of the way LeBron James treated Cleveland? A classless individual is just that, no matter where they play.

While Lebron acted crappy and childish I just don't care, and quite frankly was sick of it by day 3. I am certain that most viewers felt the same way about the BF situation. The great part about the Lebron situation is nobody cares anymore outside of Cleveland, and once BF is in the HOF and packers HOF nobody will care outside of the GB fans about his Favreness anymore.

[ThunderDan]

Here is a question I have asked myself many times, one that I don't have the answer for:

If BF had spent the bulk of his career playing on a team I cared little for, and basically duplicated his record setting performance for them, complete with his personal trials and tribulations. If he then ended his career for them with a private locker room, 5 years of threatened retirements, years of playing junior GM, the same late career playoff performances and an official retirement and unretirement. If he then took to the national airwaves to denigrate the franchise. If he was then traded to the Jets, did all the same things there both on and off the field, including comments about and actions against his former team and propositions/sexting to female empoyees. If he then went to his former team's chief competitor and finished out his career there much like he did in MN:

If I watched all that from afar as a Packer fan with no emotional tie to Brett Favre, what would I think of him?

Should I think differently just because he DID play for my favorite team?

I can't answer the first, but I answer the second, "NO".

Great thought. I think that is the reason why I cannot stand Elway and E. Manning.

Both told the team that drafted them to pound sand/forced trades.

[Patler]

Great thought. I think that is the reason why I cannot stand Elway and E. Manning.

Both told the team that drafted them to pound sand/forced trades.

Ya, those two guys are not among my favorites either, for just that reason.

[Pugger]

Over at the Football's Future forum fans of other teams don't seem to understand why so many Packer fans have animosity towards Favre even to this day. They tell us to "get over it". I responded to them saying because they are not Packer fans they don't understand/care about this so MYOB.

[pbmax]

Over at the Football's Future forum fans of other teams don't seem to understand why so many Packer fans have animosity towards Favre even to this day. They tell us to "get over it". I responded to them saying because they are not Packer fans they don't understand/care about this so MYOB.

I think that is the best answer to Patler's question. If he played for another franchise, we would wonder why everyone's undies are still bundled.

[Patler]

Over at the Football's Future forum fans of other teams don't seem to understand why so many Packer fans have animosity towards Favre even to this day. They tell us to "get over it". I responded to them saying because they are not Packer fans they don't understand/care about this so MYOB.

I can understand the "get over it" part. But I wonder what their opinion is about Favre himself?
Great personal stats, but only took the team to one SB victory, so greatness tempered?.
Positive stats perhaps mitigated by that tremendous interceptions total?
A lecherous, dirty old fool, perhaps?

[pbmax]

Cavalier fans were treated miserably by just about everyone over LeBron's pending FA. While you could accuse LeBron of not doing enough to tamp down speculation, the media and fans went nuts for two years about his pending FA. If he wore a non-Indians baseball cap, it was 3 days of 'does the cap tell us where LeBron wants to go'? Everyone thought he would leave. That added to the level of disappointment, it seemed like piling on most of the time.

I don't begrudge Favre throwing his weight around the few times he did it prior to 2008. Compared to other QB divas it was mild and not terribly public. You had to really be paying attention to the Moss FA thing to know he was involved enough to be disappointed and no one outside of us knew about Favre HQ in the Locker Room. When he spoke about FA under Sherman, he knew the cap was pretty tight so his expectations were limited. Thompson having gained space exacerbated the drought prior to Woodson and Pickett. Being excused from offseason workouts and parts of OTA are common among veterans.

It is only remarkable to me to the extent that they point to growing dissatisfaction between Favre and the club. I don't think anyone was prepared for that. So his post retirement behavior was both a surprise and disappointing. The problem is that we can't separate out the Packers blunders which certainly contributed to the extended drama.

[mraynrand]

Cavalier fans were treated miserably by just about everyone over LeBron's pending FA. While you could accuse LeBron of not doing enough to tamp down speculation, the media and fans went nuts for two years about his pending FA. If he wore a non-Indians baseball cap, it was 3 days of 'does the cap tell us where LeBron wants to go'? Everyone thought he would leave. That added to the level of disappointment, it seemed like piling on most of the time.

Intriguingly, LeBron pulled the same injury stunt as Favre did to get out of New York. The bottom line for LeBron is that he just wanted to get out of Cleveland and go somewhere he could win. The Cavs simply wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal to win a championship (wouldn't sign Garnett and didn't sign Ben Wallace when he still had something in the tank). LeBron saw that the same way Favre looked at not signing Moss - in the case of LeBron, he was right, in the case of Favre we have the proof of a Superbowl victory and a hell of a lot of wins to show he was wrong. I hate the inmates running the asylum modern NBA and LeBron, basically faked injury and quit to make certain he wouldn't be kept in Cleveland, just like Favre with the Jets. In LeBron's favor, he didn't make it a goal to stick it to Cleveland, but you can't really evaluate that because the Cavs essentially were finished after he left (there wasn't anyone left to stick it to, except maybe Anderson Varejao, and hurting him is like kicking a puppy). That's in contrast to the Packers who were hurt short term by the Favre exit, but ultimately saved by an excellent front office, GM, and coach that kept their heads and focused on the long view.

[pbmax]

Intriguingly, LeBron pulled the same injury stunt as Favre did to get out of New York. The bottom line for LeBron is that he just wanted to get out of Cleveland and go somewhere he could win. The Cavs simply wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal to win a championship (wouldn't sign Garnett and didn't sign Ben Wallace when he still had something in the tank). LeBron saw that the same way Favre looked at not signing Moss - in the case of LeBron, he was right, in the case of Favre we have the proof of a Superbowl victory and a hell of a lot of wins to show he was wrong. I hate the inmates running the asylum modern NBA and LeBron, basically faked injury and quit to make certain he wouldn't be kept in Cleveland, just like Favre with the Jets. In LeBron's favor, he didn't make it a goal to stick it to Cleveland, but you can't really evaluate that because the Cavs essentially were finished after he left (there wasn't anyone left to stick it to, except maybe Anderson Varejao, and hurting him is like kicking a puppy). That's in contrast to the Packers who were hurt short term by the Favre exit, but ultimately saved by an excellent front office, GM, and coach that kept their heads and focused on the long view.

Don't remember the injury thing playing a factor. Wasn't he a Free Agent?

Cavs also made blunders in who they chose to sign. Reports were that they could have had Amare Stoudamire but ended up with Antawn Jamison I think. Not sure if issue was trade, salary or desire of Amare to live anywhere but NE Ohio. I have also heard that James tried to get other FAs to sign with the Cavs and in basketball you would think that would be attractive but he had virtually no takers. Neither Bosh nor Wade wanted to be in Cleveland.

[mraynrand]

Don't remember the injury thing playing a factor. Wasn't he a Free Agent?

Yes, but it was a way of making crystal clear that he didn't want to be in Cleveland, no matter what offer(s) were on the table.

Cavs also made blunders in who they chose to sign. Reports were that they could have had Amare Stoudamire but ended up with Antawn Jamison I think. Not sure if issue was trade, salary or desire of Amare to live anywhere but NE Ohio. I have also heard that James tried to get other FAs to sign with the Cavs and in basketball you would think that would be attractive but he had virtually no takers. Neither Bosh nor Wade wanted to be in Cleveland.

I guess you're right there. I didn't follow those FA rumors that closely. Who the hell wants to be in Cleveland?

[RashanGary]

I'd love to give Favre the ultimate insult (indifference) but I can't really. I still have a hard time thinking of the good times as well as I should because I still don't like him being in the picture.

It will go away. I'm divorced, her and I get along good, love each other in some weird divorced sort of way and remember the good more than the bad (I can only really speak for me I guess, but she's really supportive and she's a friend, so I think I speak for both.)

They don't have kids, but they have a mutual money baby. Fuck it, life's too short.

For me, Ted would be a hard one to be friends with. He comes off very aloof, like he doesn't give a fuck about you. 10 years, married, if my ex came off like she didn't give a fuck about me, I think I'd probably be resentful. Just the idea, 10 years and you literally don't care. That would be a pretty sick feeling. This isn't marriage, but look at it, Favre had a deep, personal connection to football and the Packers. It's similar IMO. His whole life probably feels like it was spinning, like he didn't know what was next, like he doesn't know what to do, doesn't have a plan. That kind of frustrates me with Bus Cook, just because I think the agent should be aware of these emotional pit-falls and help a player out, not fuel an overly emotional time. Cook never seemed to talk Favre out of anything, never seemed to suggest Favre show up, just go through the motions so it wouldn't get ugly. It was the opposite, like Cook wanted a fight, like he wanted to pit Favre against the Packers and vice versa. Favre, I get, he's emotional. Cook, I don't. He should be looking objectively, realizing it's not worth sitting out of the offseason, just because Favre wasn't certain. I always thought the advice, the sound advice, the advice his dad would have given, was to go to work until you know you don't want to or can't. The Packers are a great team, a great place. The NFL keeps moving. The Packers keep moving. Hang on as long as you can or until you know you don't want to. That would have been the good advice, and that's not even hindsight. All ex-NFL players on NFL network say that to players near the end. Hang on. It never comes back.

[woodbuck27]

I'd love to give Favre the ultimate insult (indifference) but I can't really. I still have a hard time thinking of the good times as well as I should because I still don't like him being in the picture.

It will go away. I'm divorced, her and I get along good, love each other in some weird divorced sort of way and remember the good more than the bad (I can only really speak for me I guess, but she's really supportive and she's a friend, so I think I speak for both.)

They don't have kids, but they have a mutual money baby. Fuck it, life's too short.

For me, Ted would be a hard one to be friends with. He comes off very aloof, like he doesn't give a fuck about you. 10 years, married, if my ex came off like she didn't give a fuck about me, I think I'd probably be resentful. Just the idea, 10 years and you literally don't care. That would be a pretty sick feeling. This isn't marriage, but look at it, Favre had a deep, personal connection to football and the Packers. It's similar IMO. His whole life probably feels like it was spinning, like he didn't know what was next, like he doesn't know what to do, doesn't have a plan. That kind of frustrates me with Bus Cook, just because I think the agent should be aware of these emotional pit-falls and help a player out, not fuel an overly emotional time. Cook never seemed to talk Favre out of anything, never seemed to suggest Favre show up, just go through the motions so it wouldn't get ugly. It was the opposite, like Cook wanted a fight, like he wanted to pit Favre against the Packers and vice versa. Favre, I get, he's emotional. Cook, I don't. He should be looking objectively, realizing it's not worth sitting out of the offseason, just because Favre wasn't certain. I always thought the advice, the sound advice, the advice his dad would have given, was to go to work until you know you don't want to or can't. The Packers are a great team, a great place. The NFL keeps moving. The Packers keep moving. Hang on as long as you can or until you know you don't want to. That would have been the good advice, and that's not even hindsight. All ex-NFL players on NFL network say that to players near the end. Hang on. It never comes back.

JH this is for 'YOU' and anyone else with the strength and courage to read it :

This will be in 2 parts.

This is written as some attempt for a reconciliation here at Packerrats and not to war. To act as mature and sane adults and try harder to find some better PEACE on the Brett Favre front.

Please don't bring this down on our benefactor /owner...Mad. Please be strong and NOT go there or cause Mad grief. Let's try to work through this. Ultimately then this thread will have succeeded...as I believe MOOB DEEP would have wished for.

JH... Your digging in to understand the whole Favre question. I've been right there too. I was truly upset with Brett Favre. I got over 'myself'. I got there with some reality therapy. I got there by addressing Favre the human being in my humanness.

I don't know if this helps but I'll shoot it anyway. This isn't in anyway meant to add any insult to one soul here. If you read it you do so at your own risk. Actually it's simply very honest. Simply me allowing y'all to see more of me and this issue. My 'only' focus is too persuade.

I'm primarily addressing this to JH in an open forum format; so anyone here might see things from some small different, yet all in all positive Favre and GREEN BAY PACKER perspective. That in terms of some real value and history. Again... it's meant to persude NOT at all to assault anyone's alternate stance.

JH... If you go right back to the beginning of Favre's retirement speech in what? early March 2008 and follow it all from there. Too when 'RETIREMENT' turned to desiring to play again (include what he said he told MM and any real retirement. His reaction to finally being or not retired when TT visited him at his home in Mississippi. Specifically informing TT that he might want to play again as TT was leaving Favre's home after that visit. Maybe? read his subsequent explanations of it all. Do so with a clear and open mind. I know you have the ability to do so. It's really clear what happened....in terms of Brett Favre's mental process. That process that led from how he felt after that 2007 season ended. To his final stand to secure from TT his right to play again in early August 2008. That after MM had promised him on the phone a competition for the NO.1 QB spot. That turning to something far less than a fair competition when he actually arrived for TC. Thus Favre's 'only' avenues to again ask to be released or traded and that after he already learned from MM that a trade wasn't going to be made. The Green Bay Packers were damn intent on keeping Brett Favre retired. Therein lies the clear intent to control his life. Therein lies the clear intent to disrespect Brett Favre. it's that that may have caused the emotions in Favre to get out of hand. Who really can say as no one really knows about the one-one stuff between Favre and TT and Favre and MM and Favre and TT and MM.

Some say we have to wait for 'the book'. Nonsense. No book is going to cover the TRUTH on either side. All such would do is keep the CRAP we are trying again to sort out here as fresh as ever for some Packer fans. I am looking around at Packer Nations reaction to this whole controversy and I can report that there are more fans that support my side than any that hold distain for Favre. I'll also predict that the distainers will drop by the wayside rather rapidly as the day comes for Favre's induction into the NFL HOF. Whichever comes first that or the Green bay Packers acknowlegeing Brett Favre. Whichever comes first will be the biggest celebration. That's why I want the first to be at Lambeau Field.

Part 2 in an other post or continuation.

PACKERS !