OFFICIAL BRETT THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[Patler]

Over at the Football's Future forum fans of other teams don't seem to understand why so many Packer fans have animosity towards Favre even to this day. They tell us to "get over it". I responded to them saying because they are not Packer fans they don't understand/care about this so MYOB.

I can understand the "get over it" part. But I wonder what their opinion is about Favre himself?
Great personal stats, but only took the team to one SB victory, so greatness tempered?.
Positive stats perhaps mitigated by that tremendous interceptions total?
A lecherous, dirty old fool, perhaps?

[mraynrand]

Cavalier fans were treated miserably by just about everyone over LeBron's pending FA. While you could accuse LeBron of not doing enough to tamp down speculation, the media and fans went nuts for two years about his pending FA. If he wore a non-Indians baseball cap, it was 3 days of 'does the cap tell us where LeBron wants to go'? Everyone thought he would leave. That added to the level of disappointment, it seemed like piling on most of the time.

Intriguingly, LeBron pulled the same injury stunt as Favre did to get out of New York. The bottom line for LeBron is that he just wanted to get out of Cleveland and go somewhere he could win. The Cavs simply wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal to win a championship (wouldn't sign Garnett and didn't sign Ben Wallace when he still had something in the tank). LeBron saw that the same way Favre looked at not signing Moss - in the case of LeBron, he was right, in the case of Favre we have the proof of a Superbowl victory and a hell of a lot of wins to show he was wrong. I hate the inmates running the asylum modern NBA and LeBron, basically faked injury and quit to make certain he wouldn't be kept in Cleveland, just like Favre with the Jets. In LeBron's favor, he didn't make it a goal to stick it to Cleveland, but you can't really evaluate that because the Cavs essentially were finished after he left (there wasn't anyone left to stick it to, except maybe Anderson Varejao, and hurting him is like kicking a puppy). That's in contrast to the Packers who were hurt short term by the Favre exit, but ultimately saved by an excellent front office, GM, and coach that kept their heads and focused on the long view.

[pbmax]

Intriguingly, LeBron pulled the same injury stunt as Favre did to get out of New York. The bottom line for LeBron is that he just wanted to get out of Cleveland and go somewhere he could win. The Cavs simply wouldn't pull the trigger on a deal to win a championship (wouldn't sign Garnett and didn't sign Ben Wallace when he still had something in the tank). LeBron saw that the same way Favre looked at not signing Moss - in the case of LeBron, he was right, in the case of Favre we have the proof of a Superbowl victory and a hell of a lot of wins to show he was wrong. I hate the inmates running the asylum modern NBA and LeBron, basically faked injury and quit to make certain he wouldn't be kept in Cleveland, just like Favre with the Jets. In LeBron's favor, he didn't make it a goal to stick it to Cleveland, but you can't really evaluate that because the Cavs essentially were finished after he left (there wasn't anyone left to stick it to, except maybe Anderson Varejao, and hurting him is like kicking a puppy). That's in contrast to the Packers who were hurt short term by the Favre exit, but ultimately saved by an excellent front office, GM, and coach that kept their heads and focused on the long view.

Don't remember the injury thing playing a factor. Wasn't he a Free Agent?

Cavs also made blunders in who they chose to sign. Reports were that they could have had Amare Stoudamire but ended up with Antawn Jamison I think. Not sure if issue was trade, salary or desire of Amare to live anywhere but NE Ohio. I have also heard that James tried to get other FAs to sign with the Cavs and in basketball you would think that would be attractive but he had virtually no takers. Neither Bosh nor Wade wanted to be in Cleveland.

[mraynrand]

Don't remember the injury thing playing a factor. Wasn't he a Free Agent?

Yes, but it was a way of making crystal clear that he didn't want to be in Cleveland, no matter what offer(s) were on the table.

Cavs also made blunders in who they chose to sign. Reports were that they could have had Amare Stoudamire but ended up with Antawn Jamison I think. Not sure if issue was trade, salary or desire of Amare to live anywhere but NE Ohio. I have also heard that James tried to get other FAs to sign with the Cavs and in basketball you would think that would be attractive but he had virtually no takers. Neither Bosh nor Wade wanted to be in Cleveland.

I guess you're right there. I didn't follow those FA rumors that closely. Who the hell wants to be in Cleveland?

[Carolina_Packer]

Interesting quote from the Favre presser.

Favre: "I think last year and the year before I was tired and it took awhile but I came back. Something told me this time not to come back. It took awhile once again. Once again, I wondered if it was the right decision. But I think in my situation, and I had this conversation with Mike and Ted, that it's a unique situation in that at 17 years I had one of the better years in my career, the team had a great year, everything seems to be going great, the team wants me back, I still can play, for the most part everyone would think I would be back, would want me back. That's a unique situation going into an 18th season. There's no guarantees next year, personally and as a team, and I'm well aware of that. It's a tough business and last year and the year before I questioned whether or not I should come back because I didn't play at a high enough level. Other people questioned that. I really didn't question my commitment. I just wondered, 'Could I not play anymore?' I know I can play. But this year, and this is not the first year but it really to me and Deanna was more noticeable, the stress part of it. It's demanding. It always has been, but I think as I've gotten older I'm much more aware of that. I'm much more aware of how hard it is to win in this league and to play at a high level. I'm not up to the challenge anymore. I can play, but I'm not up to the challenge. You can't just show up and play for three hours on Sunday. If you could, there'd be a lot more people doing it and they'd be doing it for a lot longer. I have way too much pride, I expect a lot out of myself, and if I cannot do those things 100 percent, then I can't play."

From BF's own words in March MM & TT want him back as the starting QB in 2008.

Interesting to read again. I see humility and understanding here from what he's saying. So, how did he get to these kinds of big picture thoughts in March 2008 all the way to scorched cheese in July/August 2008? Was it the fact that they wouldn't just let him waltz back in and have his job back? "Hey, you said I could still play and you wanted me back!" Or, was he mad that TT wouldn't give him his outright release? If he was really mad about either thing, then he wasn't thinking straight at that point, or was getting some bad advice in his ear. My favorite (not) at the time was all the people associated with the Favre camp going to the media saying that he felt under-appreciated. What horse hockey all that business was. Did he sound bitter in that piece that Thunder Dan transcribed? Not one bit. What happened in the 5 months that followed to make him behave like he did? That's what I'll always wonder about that whole situation.

[Smeefers]

And yet if you listen to Cavaliers fans there is still a high level of animosity towards him by some, much like the BF situation in GB. I am not saying Lebron acted as poorly as Favre (or vise versa) just saying that if you are passionate about something and someone attacks it you will react much stronger than a passive observer. I am certain many Cleveland fans would argue Lebron's actions are much worse than Favre's.
Most people don't really care anymore outside of the fans and media looking for an easy story.

I brought the Brett Favre thing up with my family over the long weekend. Every one of them still doesn't like them. They just don't have as long of memories as you rats. They barely even remember the Jets. All their animosity is focused on the Vikings gig. Then I started bringing stuff up. Wishing the bears good luck. Giving pointers to the lions. Jen Sturger. The list went on. The more I talked, the more they went "ohh yeah" but there wasn't the anger that there used to be. Now it's just sadness, because when we talk about super bowl 96, we have to talk about him leaving. All those awesome years are still pretty much off limits. Needless to say, we didn't stay on topic long.

[swede]

I brought the Brett Favre thing up with my family over the long weekend. Every one of them still doesn't like them. They just don't have as long of memories as you rats. They barely even remember the Jets. All their animosity is focused on the Vikings gig. Then I started bringing stuff up. Wishing the bears good luck. Giving pointers to the lions. Jen Sturger. The list went on. The more I talked, the more they went "ohh yeah" but there wasn't the anger that there used to be. Now it's just sadness, because when we talk about super bowl 96, we have to talk about him leaving. All those awesome years are still pretty much off limits. Needless to say, we didn't stay on topic long.

A good memory is an exquisite firing of neurons along a familiar, delightful path. Of course Favre gave us good memories. Favre to Rison...off goes the helmet with arms raised high...it's very good.

It does get tiresome dragging along a bag of anger, though...definitely not worth the effort. What can you say? He is a HOF quarterback and a giant douche at the same time. Maybe I should cut him some slack because he lost his dad at a time when he really could have used Irv's guidance.

For a while I was getting annoyed with the resurgence of this thread. Now I see it as a kind of performance art. Favre is a real person, but he is also a shared cultural icon. We are all throwing paint against the canvas, some of us with honoring words, some of us with hurt feelings, and some of us with photo-shopped Crocs.

[RashanGary]

I brought the Brett Favre thing up with my family over the long weekend. Every one of them still doesn't like them. They just don't have as long of memories as you rats. They barely even remember the Jets. All their animosity is focused on the Vikings gig. Then I started bringing stuff up. Wishing the bears good luck. Giving pointers to the lions. Jen Sturger. The list went on. The more I talked, the more they went "ohh yeah" but there wasn't the anger that there used to be. Now it's just sadness, because when we talk about super bowl 96, we have to talk about him leaving. All those awesome years are still pretty much off limits. Needless to say, we didn't stay on topic long.

Smeefers, a guy from a true GB family. I'd say this is probably spot on, in sentiment around here. Favre isn't hated like he once was, not even close by most. It's more of an eerie silence.

[George Cumby]

Smeefers, a guy from a true GB family. I'd say this is probably spot on, in sentiment around here. Favre isn't hated like he once was, not even close by most. It's more of an eerie silence.

I think most are just weary of the whole thing.

Patler brings up a great point. What if I were ambivalent about the Pack? Someone else brought up the LeBron deal. I care not a whit about the NBA or Cleveland but I know enough to know that LeBron is lame and i probably wouldn't cross the street to piss on him if he were on fire.

So where does that leave me with Favre?

Epiphany: I don't really care.

[RashanGary]

I'd love to give Favre the ultimate insult (indifference) but I can't really. I still have a hard time thinking of the good times as well as I should because I still don't like him being in the picture.

It will go away. I'm divorced, her and I get along good, love each other in some weird divorced sort of way and remember the good more than the bad (I can only really speak for me I guess, but she's really supportive and she's a friend, so I think I speak for both.)

They don't have kids, but they have a mutual money baby. Fuck it, life's too short.

For me, Ted would be a hard one to be friends with. He comes off very aloof, like he doesn't give a fuck about you. 10 years, married, if my ex came off like she didn't give a fuck about me, I think I'd probably be resentful. Just the idea, 10 years and you literally don't care. That would be a pretty sick feeling. This isn't marriage, but look at it, Favre had a deep, personal connection to football and the Packers. It's similar IMO. His whole life probably feels like it was spinning, like he didn't know what was next, like he doesn't know what to do, doesn't have a plan. That kind of frustrates me with Bus Cook, just because I think the agent should be aware of these emotional pit-falls and help a player out, not fuel an overly emotional time. Cook never seemed to talk Favre out of anything, never seemed to suggest Favre show up, just go through the motions so it wouldn't get ugly. It was the opposite, like Cook wanted a fight, like he wanted to pit Favre against the Packers and vice versa. Favre, I get, he's emotional. Cook, I don't. He should be looking objectively, realizing it's not worth sitting out of the offseason, just because Favre wasn't certain. I always thought the advice, the sound advice, the advice his dad would have given, was to go to work until you know you don't want to or can't. The Packers are a great team, a great place. The NFL keeps moving. The Packers keep moving. Hang on as long as you can or until you know you don't want to. That would have been the good advice, and that's not even hindsight. All ex-NFL players on NFL network say that to players near the end. Hang on. It never comes back.

[woodbuck27]

I'd love to give Favre the ultimate insult (indifference) but I can't really. I still have a hard time thinking of the good times as well as I should because I still don't like him being in the picture.

It will go away. I'm divorced, her and I get along good, love each other in some weird divorced sort of way and remember the good more than the bad (I can only really speak for me I guess, but she's really supportive and she's a friend, so I think I speak for both.)

They don't have kids, but they have a mutual money baby. Fuck it, life's too short.

For me, Ted would be a hard one to be friends with. He comes off very aloof, like he doesn't give a fuck about you. 10 years, married, if my ex came off like she didn't give a fuck about me, I think I'd probably be resentful. Just the idea, 10 years and you literally don't care. That would be a pretty sick feeling. This isn't marriage, but look at it, Favre had a deep, personal connection to football and the Packers. It's similar IMO. His whole life probably feels like it was spinning, like he didn't know what was next, like he doesn't know what to do, doesn't have a plan. That kind of frustrates me with Bus Cook, just because I think the agent should be aware of these emotional pit-falls and help a player out, not fuel an overly emotional time. Cook never seemed to talk Favre out of anything, never seemed to suggest Favre show up, just go through the motions so it wouldn't get ugly. It was the opposite, like Cook wanted a fight, like he wanted to pit Favre against the Packers and vice versa. Favre, I get, he's emotional. Cook, I don't. He should be looking objectively, realizing it's not worth sitting out of the offseason, just because Favre wasn't certain. I always thought the advice, the sound advice, the advice his dad would have given, was to go to work until you know you don't want to or can't. The Packers are a great team, a great place. The NFL keeps moving. The Packers keep moving. Hang on as long as you can or until you know you don't want to. That would have been the good advice, and that's not even hindsight. All ex-NFL players on NFL network say that to players near the end. Hang on. It never comes back.

JH this is for 'YOU' and anyone else with the strength and courage to read it :

This will be in 2 parts.

This is written as some attempt for a reconciliation here at Packerrats and not to war. To act as mature and sane adults and try harder to find some better PEACE on the Brett Favre front.

Please don't bring this down on our benefactor /owner...Mad. Please be strong and NOT go there or cause Mad grief. Let's try to work through this. Ultimately then this thread will have succeeded...as I believe MOOB DEEP would have wished for.

JH... Your digging in to understand the whole Favre question. I've been right there too. I was truly upset with Brett Favre. I got over 'myself'. I got there with some reality therapy. I got there by addressing Favre the human being in my humanness.

I don't know if this helps but I'll shoot it anyway. This isn't in anyway meant to add any insult to one soul here. If you read it you do so at your own risk. Actually it's simply very honest. Simply me allowing y'all to see more of me and this issue. My 'only' focus is too persuade.

I'm primarily addressing this to JH in an open forum format; so anyone here might see things from some small different, yet all in all positive Favre and GREEN BAY PACKER perspective. That in terms of some real value and history. Again... it's meant to persude NOT at all to assault anyone's alternate stance.

JH... If you go right back to the beginning of Favre's retirement speech in what? early March 2008 and follow it all from there. Too when 'RETIREMENT' turned to desiring to play again (include what he said he told MM and any real retirement. His reaction to finally being or not retired when TT visited him at his home in Mississippi. Specifically informing TT that he might want to play again as TT was leaving Favre's home after that visit. Maybe? read his subsequent explanations of it all. Do so with a clear and open mind. I know you have the ability to do so. It's really clear what happened....in terms of Brett Favre's mental process. That process that led from how he felt after that 2007 season ended. To his final stand to secure from TT his right to play again in early August 2008. That after MM had promised him on the phone a competition for the NO.1 QB spot. That turning to something far less than a fair competition when he actually arrived for TC. Thus Favre's 'only' avenues to again ask to be released or traded and that after he already learned from MM that a trade wasn't going to be made. The Green Bay Packers were damn intent on keeping Brett Favre retired. Therein lies the clear intent to control his life. Therein lies the clear intent to disrespect Brett Favre. it's that that may have caused the emotions in Favre to get out of hand. Who really can say as no one really knows about the one-one stuff between Favre and TT and Favre and MM and Favre and TT and MM.

Some say we have to wait for 'the book'. Nonsense. No book is going to cover the TRUTH on either side. All such would do is keep the CRAP we are trying again to sort out here as fresh as ever for some Packer fans. I am looking around at Packer Nations reaction to this whole controversy and I can report that there are more fans that support my side than any that hold distain for Favre. I'll also predict that the distainers will drop by the wayside rather rapidly as the day comes for Favre's induction into the NFL HOF. Whichever comes first that or the Green bay Packers acknowlegeing Brett Favre. Whichever comes first will be the biggest celebration. That's why I want the first to be at Lambeau Field.

Part 2 in an other post or continuation.

PACKERS !

[woodbuck27]

Part 2 Of Post to JH:

The real story going back to late Winter-Spring 2008 to August 2008 and the Packers trading Favre:

There isn't anything even marginally unordinary about the whole thing JH. I'll try to explain it from my own personal experience and athletics and maybe you can relate to this similarly.

I played sports competitively into my 40's. I can re-call as I got on in age how hard it was to get back too top shape. Too really feel that old zip again. As I aged I could feel that fire recede in my belly. It was really getting out to the first practises; seeing the familiar faces that got the blood really boiling again. It was knowing that my teammates were happy to have me back. That cemented a final desire to play my best to help my team do it's very best.

I re-call seeing a team of old friends and acquaintances disband one season after we just failed to win an Eastern Canada Championship Final. I was picked up by a solidly competitive team the next year. I played hard for that team; and they made me feel welcome, but it wasn't the same. I had no terrific desire left in my heart. In rather and simply went through the motions. I played my very best 'only' in spurts. All I had left was natural ability but not 'the fire' or desire never to loose. I took everything too much in stride.

There had to be some of that going on inside of Brett Favre.

The other thing that some here overlook. Brett Favre isn't a really bad man. Brett Favre is a well liked individual and fun to be around. I would love to spend an afternoon with Brett Favre doing whatever he chose for us to do. I'd love to get him on a pool table with a few brews. I'd try to dust his ass. I know I would have a hoot with Brett Favre and have him in stitches. If he got too serious I'd calm him down because I have that style of personality.

What was Favre as a Green Bay Packer, JH?

He was a leader on the field and in the locker room. Just having him there was huge for his teammates. You don't have to lead a thirsty horse to water. Well in 2008 it was a lot more of that.

His fire was burning out. Not burnt out >>>burning out, JH.

It was also what we saw during his last 5-6 years. He was not so much into the NFL and more and more money. That man was very well off. His endorsements alone made him very rich. That man more than once had his contract re-structured to help the Packers acquire or maintain good talent. He was the ultimate team player and very well liked by teammates. He was relaxed and fun to be around. He didn't nor had to suck up to anyone. He didn't need any praise. He had to answer 'the call of one bell'... his own.

JH...For most of his days in Green Bay Brett Favre was the preeminent NFL player; the most ICONIC of all NFL players. After an amazing 2007 season. A season in which he gave his all to his team's effort. Saw and felt it go to zero and no Super Bowl again. How much did that take out of Bret Favre!? How much did he feel he let his teammates and MM and TT down at that ending?

That had to be brutal on a man with his emotions. That had to leave his tank startlingly empty.

There is something else JH.

If you read all the reports and things that Favre says and actually desiring to return to the Packers No. 1 QB job. He clearly says he has mixed emotions there as he had expressed feelings for the inevitability of that return and having to see Aaron Rodgers on the sidelines again. Couple that with the news from MM and full on having to know that TT and MM had moved onto Aaron Rodgers. Favre desiring to play football again as all he knew for so long at that time of year. The NFL HO adding pressure for the Packers to make more effort to allow Brett Favre to pay and riding the pine after his 2007 season being ridiculous.

It all becomes so simple to understand.

This conspiracy theory thing some here desire to drum up. That's great entertainment. I love fiction JH.

What it got down too, was the fact that he could play at a high level again and that certainly demonstrated by more than doubling the New York Jets number in the 'W' column in 2008.The fact he led the Minnesota Vikings too 13 wins in the 2009 season. Those facts of Favre and capable still then cannot be taken away.

Some of Packer Nation actually feel that to mend it all. That can only arrive after an apology. That he owes TT and the Packer fans and organization some form of public apology. I say such is within Favre if that's actually deserved for certain parties. I believe if you error and such error hurt someone cruelly without proper justification. or the insult didn't fit. Then an apology shouldn't be too hard too get out and with conviction. You never apologize unless you feel the pain yourself hurting another and do so well.

What does Favre have to apologize for JH?:

For wanting to be a Professional athlete and compete on some NFL team to go to another Super Bowl? The Green Bay Packers couldn't cover all the bases by simply ensuring a Brett Favre retirement. We'll never really 'in absolute TRUTH' and from a standpoint of 'BEST UNDERSTANDING' get to the bottom of it all. I do feel this and all that retirement talk in 2008. That Favre retirement was as final or real; was about as likely in 2008. As 'my retirement from living', any time soon.

After his 2007 season Brett Favre simply had to try again. Too many positives about that season (2007) to keep that man away from playing in the NFL in 2008.

The Packers didn't as one notable Packerrat informs us...'kick Bret Favre to the curb' to promote Aaron Rodgers. The Green Bay Packers made a sound business decision. A decision for the future of the Green bay Packers by electing to go with Aaron Rodgers; and specifically that when Brett Favre took too long to positively declare a positive commitment (by TT's and MM 's definition) for the 2008 season.

Whatever happened in terms of anything Brett Favre after his trade to the Jets is entirely Brett Favre's business, and FREEDOM OF RIGHTS. I do certainly believe that he was well over any bad feelings, if he ever really had any for TT and/or MM, by the end of the 2008 season. He clearly said then that both sides made errors leading up to his trade to the NY Jets but that he felt that both sides were over it ... that he and the Green Bay Packers had simply and correctly moved forward. He clearly (again) stated this in a post game interview after the final Jets game Vs Miami (and a loss) in the 2008 season.

All that garbage smut crap and Favre doing this or that in private after he was traded to the Green Bay Packers. 'Only' feeds the fire for those Packer fans that elect to carry some silly grudge against a man that 'only' gave hugely to them in his time in Green Bay. I don't find this attitude really strange either. Why? That stuff or (to other team fans) rather odd characteristic of Green Bay Packer fans is sorta normal. It's strange behaviour but on the other hand typical of some Packer fans going back in the history of Green Bay Packer Legends... 'Curly' Lambeau , and even Vince Lombardi. Today those Packer fans if existing back in the 'witch hunt days' might try to burn Favre at the stake if he showed his face in Green bay. It's really almost funny to me that such could even be imagined.

Some Packer fans can 'only' love you for what you gave that was really positive 'yesterday'. If the 'today' stuff doesn't really excite/totally agree with them >>> your garbage >>> trashed !

The thing is I do not understand in such people. That's a big vice versa for them and how they try to classify, 'or pigeon hole me' here at Packerrats. That at least makes us even. Whatever floats their boat is overall their way...never going to be mine. As long as we can live with that simple fact of life here at Packerrats it'll be OK.

JH ..There's a certain TRUTH I live with as a dedicated die hard Green Bay Packer fan.

Inspite of any animosity these Favre disclaimers need to have to drum up. Inspite of their ire that I could possibly challenge their rightness. We will somehow I expect co-exist here at our Packer home. I'm truly a proud member of Packerrats . All that horrendous spite for Brett Favre is simply, a too bad so sad... a 'so what' to me. Part of my Packer fan awareness is to truly remain loyal. Too pay some decency in respect for my Green Bay Packer star players. After all as Packer fan they gave me much. They tried their best and often gave so much too/for me to enjoy.

That's generally as I am...loyal to a good cause. With the accent on the word 'good'. Sometimes I fight fire with fire here. I've always been in my own best way a warrior.

It's too easy for me to remain loyal to Favre. Favre is a Green Bay Packer 'TRUE LEGEND'. His status as a Green Bay Packer has few 'if any' contenders. His superior status as an NFL player places him in a rather prestigious and exclusive number of players.

Favre is one man 'and name', that stands alone and at or near the top of all GREAT NFL players; certainly an enduring ICON among all Green Bay Packer players in Green bay Packer history.

He's certainly not Pete Rose. Even Pete Rose may one day be forgiven.

GO PACK GO !

[RashanGary]

I think Favre over-reacted. Favre had the option of retiring or coming back to GB and forcing them to honor the contract. He didn't get to make the choice whether he started in the NFL again. He signed a contract saying he would get paid money for his services. Nobody guaranteed him a starting job. I'm fine with him leaving to the Jets, doing his best to get out. I think it's obvious he thought the Packers made a mistake, thought he was the better player, and was hurt by them choosing Aaron (I know he cried in one interview, saying, "they did this for Aaron.") I would warm up to him if he talked about how much that bothered him and talked about how that fueled his anger to try to prove the Packers wrong, to go to the Lions to give them info, etc. . . Aaron talks all the time about how he felt slighted through his career and how it fuels him to prove those people wrong. People can relate to not feeling worthy, to feeling rejected. But say it. He says none of it bothers him, but it obviously does. And honestly, if Favre really is so apathetic that having the Packers choose AR over him doesn't affect him. . . . If he's that numb, I don't think people do like him very much, and we all have that right. I know I don't like people who don't give a shit about anything. I like people more who do care, who do feel pain. He's sort of painting himself in a corner as a guy who doesn't care, who thinks he's so great, nothing can get to him. I don't know, I'd rather see someone affected by a divorce than just say, "eh, that's over, time to move on." People don't like Jay Cutler for the same reason. He makes a mistake where most people would be really disappointed, probably hit themselves in the helmet, and he just walks off like, "eh, the WR ran the wrong route." Apathy disgusts people, by and large.

When Favre kept saying in the Gretta interview that he just wanted to play football, I don't think it was true. I think he wanted to play with Green Bay. When he says he doesn't care that they made that call, and just wanted out, I think it's not true. He does care. Just show yourself, Favre. People will like you for it. He's doing this to himself. He's too proud to admit he's hurt. Apathy begets apathy as much as love begets love. Shit Favre, stop acting apathetic. Show you're hurt and people will love you again. If he doesn't care at all about how the fans feel about him, then don't. But not caring will beget not caring and it will go down that, "indifferent" path. Like I said, being indifferent is the ultimate insult, like you're worthless, I don't care. Him being indifferent toward the fans, like he doesn't care, just makes him hard to love. It's fake though. Favre is not indifferent. He cares. I know he does.

I don't think he needs to apologize. I just think he needs to talk and be human again. Be the guy who made mistakes, be the guy who felt rejected. Just be yourself. Nobody falls in love with brick walls. If all you put up is a brick wall, and then put guns on it to fortify it, obviously all people are going to view you as is a threat and/or and unlovable brick wall. Favre has a big shield up. He had a different kind of relationship with GB, an open one. People loved him.

Fixing the Favre mess means people loving Favre again. Loving Favre again means seeing him again. If he wants it the way it was "people loving him, naming their kids after him." he's going to have to show himself to people.

Nobody would have loved FAvre the way they did if he didn't bring so much of himself out in public. That mess could have never gotten so ugly if he wasn't so loved by Green Bay. But he was. Now, if he wants to have that back, he's going to have to be public with how he feels again. He didn't have a player/team relationship with Green Bay. He had a million little kids named Brett walking around a small wisconsin town. He had basements where the centerpiece was him succeeding. NOt a picture of him with a helmet on, making a play. It's a picture, of him, with his helmet off, experiencing joy. Favre was more of an emotional connection than it was a football one. If it's ever going to get back, it has to be through the hearts, not through rational explaining of events. He has to talk. He has to be lovable Brett again. He has to let the walls down.

If he doesn't want that special GB relationship back, then keep the walls up. But this isn't about proving points, right or wrong. This is about how people feel about him in their hearts, and that comes from really experiencing his moments. He hasn't shared that. This is one part of his life he hasn't shared his heart on. He's shared the facts, argued half-truths, but he hasn't shared his heart.

[pbmax]

Apropos of nothing except retired players, can I ask why are the Jets and Browns engaging in public dances with their ex stars?

Jim Brown just got a job that seems like the football equivalent to featherbedding and as he was talking about it, continued to take swipes at the previous administration for freezing him out.

And the Jets are having a back and forth with Joe Namath about Sanchez/Tebow. Mostly though, its Namath going forth to bloviate.

Now I love Jim Brown as a football player as much as anyone can, not having seen him play live at any time in his career. But what on earth do you have to gain by engaging with these guys with roles on the team?

I know why radio shows have them on, because the name alone moves the meter. But why does anyone take what they say seriously at this point?

[Cleft Crusty]

Now I love Jim Brown as a football player as much as anyone can, not having seen him play live at any time in his career. But what on earth do you have to gain by engaging with these guys with roles on the team? But why does anyone take what they say seriously at this point?

you should listen to a guy who, according to NFL film clips, was only tackled three times his entire career.

[RashanGary]

My big point is the Favre stuff has very little to do with how he played football. It's how people feel about him. And Favre's whole career, IMO, the way he was covered, was greatly skewed by how much he was loved and admired (he captured the hearts of fans more than any player I remember.)

Watch a man-child playing football and you can't help but fall in love with the excitement/thrill. It's like bringing your 8 year old to Disneyland, it's all about that kid's experience. But put that same man-child into interpersonal conflict, watch him stomp his feet and attempt to inflict revenge on the culprit who pushed him beyond his ability to cope and you end up going a way kind of hating the guy. Little kids are cute. We get that they can't handle everything like adults, so it's kinda funny when they throw fits. You sooth them. Adults, we don't think they need to be soothed like a child. They are, in fact, adults, just like the rest of us. They should be able to handle it. When they throw a fit and say, "I hate you" it's not the same as when a kid does it. It's coming from an adult, you don't associate them with being incapable of coping otherwise.

Favre is an emotional midget, incapable of coping with adult problems. It's not the end of the world, no reason to hate him, but it becomes very easy to hate him when you don't realize how incapable he is of moving on without being soothed. Favre can't sooth himself and needs constant admiration/attention. It's sad, but if you look at him like a little kid, I think it's a lot easier to accept him. It's the same reason we loved him on the field. We can accept him as he is off if it, right? I'm sure he doesn't want to be angry and incapable of moving on. I'm sure it sucks for him. I'm sure it sucks that most people can't understand him. I'm sure it's a lonely place when everyone else is one way, and he's another. I think you can either love him or pity him. Hate seems like a total waste.

[Carolina_Packer]

My big point is the Favre stuff has very little to do with how he played football. It's how people feel about him. And Favre's whole career, IMO, the way he was covered, was greatly skewed by how much he was loved and admired (he captured the hearts of fans more than any player I remember.)

Watch a man-child playing football and you can't help but fall in love with the excitement/thrill. It's like bringing your 8 year old to Disneyland, it's all about that kid's experience. But put that same man-child into interpersonal conflict, watch him stomp his feet and attempt to inflict revenge on the culprit who pushed him beyond his ability to cope and you end up going a way kind of hating the guy. Little kids are cute. We get that they can't handle everything like adults, so it's kinda funny when they throw fits. You sooth them. Adults, we don't think they need to be soothed like a child. They are, in fact, adults, just like the rest of us. They should be able to handle it. When they throw a fit and say, "I hate you" it's not the same as when a kid does it. It's coming from an adult, you don't associate them with being incapable of coping otherwise.

Favre is an emotional midget, incapable of coping with adult problems. It's not the end of the world, no reason to hate him, but it becomes very easy to hate him when you don't realize how incapable he is of moving on without being soothed. Favre can't sooth himself and needs constant admiration/attention. It's sad, but if you look at him like a little kid, I think it's a lot easier to accept him. It's the same reason we loved him on the field. We can accept him as he is off if it, right? I'm sure he doesn't want to be angry and incapable of moving on. I'm sure it sucks for him. I'm sure it sucks that most people can't understand him. I'm sure it's a lonely place when everyone else is one way, and he's another. I think you can either love him or pity him. Hate seems like a total waste.

I can't believe how greatly he mis-read the situation in July/August 2008 when he decided to file his reinstatement papers with the NFL. Did he really think that Green Bay was going to just let him back in, give him his old starters job back and send Aaron to the bench? At one point in the off-season of 2008 the front office might have from the sounds of it. At a certain point, they needed to make their plan and move on.

He could have just told the team, there's a chance I might retire, but I want to leave my options open. Why don't we give this an entire off-season and when training camp comes, see how I feel about playing again. Then you don't have this fake retirement, which ended up causing a show down when he asked for reinstatement. He shouldn't have been so sure that he would be welcomed back as the starter. That was a severe miscalculation on his part.

I don't think the Packers owed him the starters job back just because he decided it was time to come back and play. I won't go as far as to say that's holding the team hostage, but it's hard to depend on and make your plans. He clearly didn't see that he was putting the team in a tough spot by coming back at that point.

From Wikipedia...Favre formally filed for reinstatement with the NFL on July 29, 2008, and his petition was granted by Commissioner Goodell, effective August 4, 2008.[77] Favre then flew to Green Bay to report to Packers training camp. After a lengthy meeting with head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson, however, both sides agreed it was time for Favre and the organization to part ways.[78] McCarthy sensed Favre was not in "the right mind-set" to resume playing for the Packers, while Favre felt that his relationship with Packer management had deteriorated to the point that a return to the team would be untenable.[78]

Did the deterioration have to do with him not being granted his unconditional release? Please! Which GM is going to do that? I know that Indy did that with Peyton, but he was no longer under contract and was coming off an injury season. If Favre was going to be traded, I sometimes wonder if they considered Minnesota, provided they could get a lot of compensation back, ala Carson Palmer to the Raiders.

Did the deterioration have to do with not being given his starter's job back as soon as he decided he wanted to come back for sure? I think the team had just had it with his indecision and while Favre was the more ready QB at the time of the parting, he was also the bigger risk because of his age and how unsure he was about playing.

I just don't get this whole deterioration of his relationship with management thing. He seemed OK with them when he was retiring in March. I'm sorry that it ended so ugly, but I'm glad someone had the guts to make a plan for the future and stick with it, despite one aging superstar thinking he could just waltz back in and have his starter's job back, and then getting his ego bruised.

Anyway, I really hope A-Rod's efforts to help mend the fences with Brett will lead to a reconciliation with the team and a proper ceremony in due time.

[LEWCWA]

Love him, hate him you guys sure can't get enough!

[Smidgeon]

The JSO is occasionally posting old articles about key moments in Packers history, and the following quote from today's article I found especially ironic:

"I wasn't terribly concerned about quarterback, but [acquiring Favre] gave us a chance to solidify the position," Holmgren said. "If Don is healthy, we have two guys who have won games and played well. Now I've got a young guy I can teach the offense to. Don Majkowski is the starting quarterback. I don't think a guy loses his job because of an injury."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/212249761.html

[hoosier]

The Majik Mullet didn't lose his job because of injury, he lost it because his oft-injured shoulder reduced him to a noodle arm.