Representation without Taxation

[HowardRoark]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

[Deputy Nutz]

I find those numbers quite interesting where did you find them?

[LL2]

I got the tidbit below in a email below. I usually do not read forwarded enails, but I thought the example below was funny....yet true. I just might try the experiement when I see an Obama supporter.

"Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed.

Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference--just imagine the coincidence.

When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight.

I went outside, gave the homeless guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful.

At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, bu t the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more. "

I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application. When people have it happen to them they don't like the idea as much anymore.

[packinpatland]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

[Cheesehead Craig]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/...come-tax-data/

As of 2006 42.4% of households were not paying. According to that article in 1990 it was about 30%. Just curious as to where your info is coming from.

[HowardRoark]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.

[HowardRoark]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2007/...come-tax-data/

As of 2006 42.4% of households were not paying. According to that article in 1990 it was about 30%. Just curious as to where your info is coming from.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/

[packinpatland]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.

I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?

[HowardRoark]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.

I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?

I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.

It's the essence of "redistribution."

The wealthy always pay more than their "fair" share. It's all numbers. You could make an argument that some hedge fund managers are paid in dividends (at 15%) instead of Ordinary Income.....but that type of issue is NEVER brought up. It's always just simply "it ain't fair" those poeple are rich.

[HowardRoark]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.

I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=14864

[Deputy Nutz]

If Taxation without Representation is tyranny, what is Representation without Taxation?

According to IRS data, in the early 1980’s, 17% of the public did not pay any taxes to the Federal Government. By 1990 that number was up to 21%. 1993, it was 24%......01 it was 27%....04 it was 33%.

Under Obama’s plan it will hit 44%. By 2014, it will hit the 50% level.

How is it again that you cook a frog?

What/who makes up the ones that are not paying taxes?

The "Ones" that we have been waiting for.

I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?

This funny, either you have to have no job, or you're too wealthy to pay taxes. When was the last time that you did your taxes? Maybe you should pay more attention, because I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney.

I would get a better accountant if I was you.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.

It's the essence of "redistribution".

So you think the working poor are not pulling their weight.

Have you ever talked to ANYBODY who is getting-by working low wage jobs?

I don't doubt that they pay little or no federal income taxes, although you neglect that they pay a huge percentage of their income on social security tax compared to people who have investment income.

Our economy is built on exploitation of people. Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits.

Income is not being redistributed to the working poor. They are being allowed to keep enough money to survive so they can continue to serve you. And if they get seriously injured or ill, they are permanently indebted and fucked for this lifetime.

[mraynrand]

I am seriously trying to understand this. If you're not paying taxes, then you must not be employed. Or you're wealthy enough to afford loopholes.
Which is it?

*SIGH*

People earning the lowest incomes pay no taxes. Under the Bush tax cuts - that were for EVERY INCOME LEVEL, anywhere from 3-10 million people were taken off the tax rolls. The bottom tax bracket went from 15% to 10% tax rate on income. The richest income earners got a tax cut, but because the economy expanded and income increased for almost everyone, high income earners increased their income, and they ended up paying MORE taxes than before AT THE LOWER TAX RATE. This tax cut policy worked under Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush. Obama is going to reverse the tax cuts for the top income earners and give the money directly - in the form of a check - to those who don't pay any federal income tax.

Answer this question: If you pay zero tax on your income, is it in your interest to increase taxes or decrease them? If you will be getting a check due to increased taxes and getting more public services due to increased taxes, will you support the candidate promising to increase taxes, or the one proposing to decrease taxes?

Answer this question: Do higher taxes on businesses promote business expansion or discourage expansion? If taxes on businesses in the U.S. are higher than overseas, where would you choose to place your company if all other things are relatively equal - in a country with higher taxes or lower taxes? What happens to U.S. jobs when companies go overseas?

[HowardRoark]

I'm serious too. At the lower ends, through "tax credits" etc., individuals do NOT pay taxes. This is what we have been trying to say for weeks in this forum.

It's the essence of "redistribution".

So you think the working poor are not pulling their weight.

Have you ever talked to ANYBODY who is getting-by working low wage jobs?

I don't doubt that they pay little or no federal income taxes, although you neglect that they pay a huge percentage of their income on social security tax compared to people who have investment income.

Our economy is built on exploitation of people. Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits.

Income is not being redistributed to the working poor. They are being allowed to keep enough money to survive so they can continue to serve you. And if they get seriously injured or ill, they are permanently indebted and fucked for this lifetime.

different debate

[mraynrand]

Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits

How many? How old are they? How long have they been in those jobs? Will they be in those jobs forever? Why are they in those jobs? What will happen to those jobs when the taxes on their employers go up?

[Harlan Huckleby]

oh, so now I have to start reading these threads before commenting? forget it, buddy.

[mraynrand]

I certainly haven't paid taxes for the last 4 years and last year my wife was actually working as an attorney..

I notified the IRS.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits

How many? How old are they? How long have they been in those jobs? Will they be in those jobs forever? Why are they in those jobs? What will happen to those jobs when the taxes on their employers go up?

These questions are best answered by life experience, or at least talking to people, rather than theories about taxes and invisible hands and shrugging atlases.

[mraynrand]

Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living

Long hours! Bare subsistence! No benefits! No retirement! No vacation days! Low wages! No health care!

[mraynrand]

Just look around you. So many people are working at jobs that require long hours to provide a bare subsistance living for one person, and can't possibly support a family. Often with no benefits

How many? How old are they? How long have they been in those jobs? Will they be in those jobs forever? Why are they in those jobs? What will happen to those jobs when the taxes on their employers go up?

These questions are best answered by life experience, or at least talking to people, rather than theories about taxes and invisible hands and shrugging atlases.

Well, then answer them. You seem to be in the know.