This guy looks like a moron now

[Tyrone Bigguns]

You still think Rodgers is not the real deal, huh Parsh?

Well, you and LEWCA can have that corner. It's going to be awfully lonely awfully quick.

Not the real deal? He's certainly not a top 5 quarterback imo. Most people in the world aren't. Define real deal. I think he's the 14-16 best starting QB in the NFL right now. Could get better, could get worse. He has an unbelievable amount of talent around him right now, and it will undoubtedly be significantly worse in the future.

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

[ThunderDan]

You still think Rodgers is not the real deal, huh Parsh?

Well, you and LEWCA can have that corner. It's going to be awfully lonely awfully quick.

Not the real deal? He's certainly not a top 5 quarterback imo. Most people in the world aren't. Define real deal. I think he's the 14-16 best starting QB in the NFL right now. Could get better, could get worse. He has an unbelievable amount of talent around him right now, and it will undoubtedly be significantly worse in the future.

Not this crap again. Is this going to have to be the fourth thread we talk about this shit.

Let's see first is Eli Manning than Vince Young.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've never seen a QB get more love for leading a losing team. You guys are such homers.

Remember, Rex Grossman led the league in games with QB rating above 100+ too. Stats do NOT tell the entire story about a player.

Grossman finished the year completing 54% of his passes, 6.7 yards/attempt, 23 TDs, and 20 interceptions. That is a 73.9 passer rating. I think stats did pretty much tell his story that year. He was below average statistically. The Bears defense and special teams were really good though.

[vince]

You still think Rodgers is not the real deal, huh Parsh?

Well, you and LEWCA can have that corner. It's going to be awfully lonely awfully quick.

Not the real deal? He's certainly not a top 5 quarterback imo. Most people in the world aren't. Define real deal. I think he's the 14-16 best starting QB in the NFL right now. Could get better, could get worse. He has an unbelievable amount of talent around him right now, and it will undoubtedly be significantly worse in the future.

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

Any success Arod had individually is due to exclusively to the unbelievable talent around him, but any failure the team around him had is due exclusively to Arod individually. I'm not sure what world that makes sense in, but it ain't the one the rest of the civilized world lives in.

And then he accuses us "homers" of not being fair and balanced.

[ThunderDan]

I will remind you that a true leader would have sat himself down when it became apparent that his injury was affecting the bottom line of the team. I wonder if that's why a certain coach lost his job...???

What a load of homeristic bullshit; gosh do you really believe this ?

For years we glorified the guy for playing though pain; celebrated the Giants TD when he comes running off the bench. Celebrate his often success when he was far below 100%. When he lost those games we didn't hammer him to death for not realizing he was "hurting the team" by playing with pain. Like an athlete has that ability. That's a coaches call.

Now we ream him for playing with pain and expect him to magically realize it's apparent he's hurting the team. Gimme a frickin break.

FAHU

Frickin Absolutely homeristically Unbelievable
[/code]

When did Favre ever have a five game streak like this:
23/43 247 0TD 1Int 60.9 rating
20/31 137 0 1 60.8
17/30 207 1 2 61.4
18/31 187 0 2 48.7
20/40 233 1 3 45.1

Call it Homerism if you want but those numbers are it. Favre never did that as a Packer.

[MJZiggy]

I will remind you that a true leader would have sat himself down when it became apparent that his injury was affecting the bottom line of the team. I wonder if that's why a certain coach lost his job...???

What a load of homeristic bullshit; gosh do you really believe this ?

For years we glorified the guy for playing though pain; celebrated the Giants TD when he comes running off the bench. Celebrate his often success when he was far below 100%. When he lost those games we didn't hammer him to death for not realizing he was "hurting the team" by playing with pain. Like an athlete has that ability. That's a coaches call.

Now we ream him for playing with pain and expect him to magically realize it's apparent he's hurting the team. Gimme a frickin break.

FAHU

Frickin Absolutely homeristically Unbelievable
[/code]

We glorified him for playing through injury all those years because he did it damned effectively. Last year not so much. All those years, the injury didn't affect the team record. Last year it did. His injury directly affected the Jets record and once that happened, he should have sat, and had he sucked with a broken thumb in GB and lost games with it, then we'd have been calling for him to sit.

[Partial]

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

They have unbelievable talent. With a good QB, the Pats went 18-1 last year and went to the Super bowl. They had slightly better talent at wideout. If they ranked #1, we're still very good and ranked in the top 5. Pats had an unreal combo of blue chip receiver and blue chip QB. This allowed them to throw the ball and dominate. Look at the #s Welker put up as a result. Why didn't he do anything close to that ever in Miami?!?

Blue chip receivers have made average quarterbacks look good quite often. Take a look at the Brad Johnson and Randall Cunningham led Vikes. These guys were journeymen until they had the superstar receiver, then they were pro bowlers.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps? I certainly think that it was.

GMen faded last year when Eli was forced to win without his star wideout (who would compete with Driver for the #2 spot on our team).

Despite top 5 offensive talent around him (imo), he still only went 6-10, including two wins against the pathetic Lions. Not so hot.

[Bretsky]

I will remind you that a true leader would have sat himself down when it became apparent that his injury was affecting the bottom line of the team. I wonder if that's why a certain coach lost his job...???

What a load of homeristic bullshit; gosh do you really believe this ?

For years we glorified the guy for playing though pain; celebrated the Giants TD when he comes running off the bench. Celebrate his often success when he was far below 100%. When he lost those games we didn't hammer him to death for not realizing he was "hurting the team" by playing with pain. Like an athlete has that ability. That's a coaches call.

Now we ream him for playing with pain and expect him to magically realize it's apparent he's hurting the team. Gimme a frickin break.

FAHU

Frickin Absolutely homeristically Unbelievable
[/code]

We glorified him for playing through injury all those years because he did it damned effectively. Last year not so much. All those years, the injury didn't affect the team record. Last year it did. His injury directly affected the Jets record and once that happened, he should have sat, and had he sucked with a broken thumb in GB and lost games with it, then we'd have been calling for him to sit.

such a load of crap, but that's what it's come to.

How do we know how it effected our record ? We had a lot of quality backups through the years, and Favre undoubtedly had his eggs due to injury.

HOW MANY pro QB's would sit themself because they don't think they can perform and it's better for the team if they sat ?

And if they did do that and the backup sucked wind they'd get fleeced

Unreal; frickin unreal

[Bretsky]

I will remind you that a true leader would have sat himself down when it became apparent that his injury was affecting the bottom line of the team. I wonder if that's why a certain coach lost his job...???

What a load of homeristic bullshit; gosh do you really believe this ?

For years we glorified the guy for playing though pain; celebrated the Giants TD when he comes running off the bench. Celebrate his often success when he was far below 100%. When he lost those games we didn't hammer him to death for not realizing he was "hurting the team" by playing with pain. Like an athlete has that ability. That's a coaches call.

Now we ream him for playing with pain and expect him to magically realize it's apparent he's hurting the team. Gimme a frickin break.

FAHU

Frickin Absolutely homeristically Unbelievable
[/code]

When did Favre ever have a five game streak like this:
23/43 247 0TD 1Int 60.9 rating
20/31 137 0 1 60.8
17/30 207 1 2 61.4
18/31 187 0 2 48.7
20/40 233 1 3 45.1

Call it Homerism if you want but those numbers are it. Favre never did that as a Packer.

So you think he should have actually benched himself ?????

About as realistic as Obama nominating a Republican to the Supreme Court

[MJZiggy]

Please see ThunderDan's post. My point is Favre never did that in GB. Maybe a bad game here and there, but he dropped almost half a season in NY. Remind me when it came out that he had that injury? Somehow I don't recall hearing a peep about it until sometime around the end of the year...

[Partial]

Please see ThunderDan's post. My point is Favre never did that in GB. Maybe a bad game here and there, but he dropped almost half a season in NY. Remind me when it came out that he had that injury? Somehow I don't recall hearing a peep about it until sometime around the end of the year...

Almost dropped half a season? They went 9-7 and were 8-3 at one point in A) the toughest division in the NFL and B) the better conference.

So what, he went 2-4 down the stretch when he was hurt. How the heck is that half a season?

[Bretsky]

Please see ThunderDan's post. My point is Favre never did that in GB. Maybe a bad game here and there, but he dropped almost half a season in NY. Remind me when it came out that he had that injury? Somehow I don't recall hearing a peep about it until sometime around the end of the year...

The stats have nothing to do with what I'm pointing out..true leader bungo....what a load

[MJZiggy]

If he had been performing that way in GB, what would your reaction have been? You'd have been screaming for him to sit. And a good leader would do that. If you were on medication that made you incapable of coherent speech, don't you think you'd want someone else to take over your client meetings until you were off the medication?

[ThunderDan]

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

They have unbelievable talent. With a good QB, the Pats went 18-1 last year and went to the Super bowl. They had slightly better talent at wideout. If they ranked #1, we're still very good and ranked in the top 5. Pats had an unreal combo of blue chip receiver and blue chip QB. This allowed them to throw the ball and dominate. Look at the #s Welker put up as a result. Why didn't he do anything close to that ever in Miami?!?

Blue chip receivers have made average quarterbacks look good quite often. Take a look at the Brad Johnson and Randall Cunningham led Vikes. These guys were journeymen until they had the superstar receiver, then they were pro bowlers.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps? I certainly think that it was.

GMen faded last year when Eli was forced to win without his star wideout (who would compete with Driver for the #2 spot on our team).

Despite top 5 offensive talent around him (imo), he still only went 6-10, including two wins against the pathetic Lions. Not so hot.

I thought the Pats missed the playoffs last year!?!

[Lurker64]

Please see ThunderDan's post. My point is Favre never did that in GB. Maybe a bad game here and there, but he dropped almost half a season in NY. Remind me when it came out that he had that injury? Somehow I don't recall hearing a peep about it until sometime around the end of the year...

Almost dropped half a season? They went 9-7 and were 8-3 at one point in A) the toughest division in the NFL and B) the better conference.

With C) one of the easiest schedules in NFL history.

I mean, Favre's terrible finish down the stretch game against:
Denver (a team that finished 29th in team defense)
San Francisco
Buffalo (who beat nobody in their division)
Seattle (a team that finished 30th in team defense)
Miami

It's not as though he was playing against great teams down the stretch. In fact, in a season where you play both the NFC and AFC Wests, winning only 9 games is kind of an embarassment since both of those divisions are terrible.

[ThunderDan]

I will remind you that a true leader would have sat himself down when it became apparent that his injury was affecting the bottom line of the team. I wonder if that's why a certain coach lost his job...???

What a load of homeristic bullshit; gosh do you really believe this ?

For years we glorified the guy for playing though pain; celebrated the Giants TD when he comes running off the bench. Celebrate his often success when he was far below 100%. When he lost those games we didn't hammer him to death for not realizing he was "hurting the team" by playing with pain. Like an athlete has that ability. That's a coaches call.

Now we ream him for playing with pain and expect him to magically realize it's apparent he's hurting the team. Gimme a frickin break.

FAHU

Frickin Absolutely homeristically Unbelievable
[/code]

When did Favre ever have a five game streak like this:
23/43 247 0TD 1Int 60.9 rating
20/31 137 0 1 60.8
17/30 207 1 2 61.4
18/31 187 0 2 48.7
20/40 233 1 3 45.1

Call it Homerism if you want but those numbers are it. Favre never did that as a Packer.

So you think he should have actually benched himself ?????

About as realistic as Obama nominating a Republican to the Supreme Court

No, I don't.

But I'm sure Mangini wanted to bench Favre but because of "The Streak" couldn't.

My point was Favre even while hurt playing for the Packers never played that poorly for that long.

[cpk1994]

And, it begins...the unbelievable talent around him argument. Laying the groundwork for "it's not arod, it's the players around him."

If we have unbelievable talent....what do teams like the Pats, gmen, etc. have?

They have unbelievable talent. With a good QB, the Pats went 18-1 last year and went to the Super bowl. They had slightly better talent at wideout. If they ranked #1, we're still very good and ranked in the top 5. Pats had an unreal combo of blue chip receiver and blue chip QB. This allowed them to throw the ball and dominate. Look at the #s Welker put up as a result. Why didn't he do anything close to that ever in Miami?!?

Blue chip receivers have made average quarterbacks look good quite often. Take a look at the Brad Johnson and Randall Cunningham led Vikes. These guys were journeymen until they had the superstar receiver, then they were pro bowlers.

Is it possible at all that Rodgers play was improved due to the phenomenal receiving corps? I certainly think that it was.

GMen faded last year when Eli was forced to win without his star wideout (who would compete with Driver for the #2 spot on our team).

Despite top 5 offensive talent around him (imo), he still only went 6-10, including two wins against the pathetic Lions. Not so hot.

ANd the bullshit continues. Again, RODGERS WASN"T THE PROBLEM. The defense was the problem. HE had one of the worst defenses the PAckers have had in years. Are you really this ignorant?

[pbmax]

The AFC East was not the toughest division in football last year. Look what the mediocre Dolphins did to that division. And yes, the Dolphins were mediocre. Parcells is good but even he doesn't get that result unless he is facing a weak schedule and his division rivals get hurt.

And everyone knew Welker had that ability in Miami, but he was in a run first offense as the third receiver with dreck for a passing game and clipboard holders for QBs. Going into his FA year, everyone knew a smart passing team was going hard after Welker. No one could cover him in the slot.

But I love how Brady gets credit for being very good with a top 1 WR corp and Rodgers gets average with a top 5 receiver corp.

Number 6 scoring offense and the QB is average. Its good to see our running game get some credit. They only thing that keeps this from being an all time wrong-headed argument is Rodgers relative inexperience. Even Rick Mirer looked presentable after one year.

[Bretsky]

If he had been performing that way in GB, what would your reaction have been? You'd have been screaming for him to sit. And a good leader would do that. If you were on medication that made you incapable of coherent speech, don't you think you'd want someone else to take over your client meetings until you were off the medication?

This logic is ridiculous; if a guy pulls himself out I would not want him on the roster. That is a CD. Bullshit I would be calling for a player to pull himself out; I can't believe you actually are arguing this spat.

Stupid comparison as well..........ability to play QB versus something as obvious as a speech impediment.....but with that being said....................if I could hardly speak but I still thought I would be more effective than the replacement either I'd do the job to the best of my ability or my employer would replace me.

[Bretsky]

I will remind you that a true leader would have sat himself down when it became apparent that his injury was affecting the bottom line of the team. I wonder if that's why a certain coach lost his job...???

What a load of homeristic bullshit; gosh do you really believe this ?

For years we glorified the guy for playing though pain; celebrated the Giants TD when he comes running off the bench. Celebrate his often success when he was far below 100%. When he lost those games we didn't hammer him to death for not realizing he was "hurting the team" by playing with pain. Like an athlete has that ability. That's a coaches call.

Now we ream him for playing with pain and expect him to magically realize it's apparent he's hurting the team. Gimme a frickin break.

FAHU

Frickin Absolutely homeristically Unbelievable
[/code]

When did Favre ever have a five game streak like this:
23/43 247 0TD 1Int 60.9 rating
20/31 137 0 1 60.8
17/30 207 1 2 61.4
18/31 187 0 2 48.7
20/40 233 1 3 45.1

Call it Homerism if you want but those numbers are it. Favre never did that as a Packer.

So you think he should have actually benched himself ?????

About as realistic as Obama nominating a Republican to the Supreme Court

No, I don't.

But I'm sure Mangini wanted to bench Favre but because of "The Streak" couldn't.

My point was Favre even while hurt playing for the Packers never played that poorly for that long.

Very sensible points