'Puters

[pasquale]

I already have and I'm not out $250. How much is that compared to the cost of an iPod again?

*Sigh*. Dealing with you is just painful. You don't use your head.

I will get my rebate, it is just a matter of getting on the horn with the right people. Are you honestly telling me you've never had any issues with rebates or haven't heard of this happening to anyone ever? If so, I envy you.

That said, iPod will be free after rebate. I already had an iPod so I sold it for cash on CL.

If you are content working on some thick, heavy, slow PC loaded with bloat ware, spyware and viruses, go ahead. Do yourself a favor and at least install Windows 7 or Ubuntu linux.

How is it that none of my PCs have any viruses, spyware, or whatever the hell bloatware is? It's not that hard to avoid clicking on the "punch the monkey" ads or "click here for a free ipod."

It amazes me how people think macs are just the most incredible, life changing purchase that can be made. It's a computer. I think a yo-yo would change my life more, since I'd learn a new trick.

Please give me an example of how it removes barriers from my life. Seriously. Sounds like something you'd hear from visiting a Scientology church.

They make nice products, but I think people have to be real idiots to think that PCs are just so much slower and bloated. If that makes you feel like a better person, kudos. But don't spill your koolaide on everyone else.

And if you are convinced that rebates are not always pain free, why are you so effin' mad?

[MJZiggy]

I already have and I'm not out $250. How much is that compared to the cost of an iPod again?

*Sigh*. Dealing with you is just painful. You don't use your head.

I will get my rebate, it is just a matter of getting on the horn with the right people. Are you honestly telling me you've never had any issues with rebates or haven't heard of this happening to anyone ever? If so, I envy you.

That said, iPod will be free after rebate. I already had an iPod so I sold it for cash on CL.

If you are content working on some thick, heavy, slow PC loaded with bloat ware, spyware and viruses, go ahead. Do yourself a favor and at least install Windows 7 or Ubuntu linux.

Big surprise. The Windows 7 upgrade came free with the computer. My computer is neither slow nor heavy and, oh look! came with the numeric keypad I never thought I'd find on a laptop. Actually, no, I've never had an issue with a rebate. You send the form, they send the check. It's pretty simple, really. Most good companies honor their rebate offers.

[Partial]

I already have and I'm not out $250. How much is that compared to the cost of an iPod again?

*Sigh*. Dealing with you is just painful. You don't use your head.

I will get my rebate, it is just a matter of getting on the horn with the right people. Are you honestly telling me you've never had any issues with rebates or haven't heard of this happening to anyone ever? If so, I envy you.

That said, iPod will be free after rebate. I already had an iPod so I sold it for cash on CL.

If you are content working on some thick, heavy, slow PC loaded with bloat ware, spyware and viruses, go ahead. Do yourself a favor and at least install Windows 7 or Ubuntu linux.

How is it that none of my PCs have any viruses, spyware, or whatever the hell bloatware is? It's not that hard to avoid clicking on the "punch the monkey" ads or "click here for a free ipod."

It amazes me how people think macs are just the most incredible, life changing purchase that can be made. It's a computer. I think a yo-yo would change my life more, since I'd learn a new trick.

Please give me an example of how it removes barriers from my life. Seriously. Sounds like something you'd hear from visiting a Scientology church.

They make nice products, but I think people have to be real idiots to think that PCs are just so much slower and bloated. If that makes you feel like a better person, kudos. But don't spill your koolaide on everyone else.

And if you are convinced that rebates are not always pain free, why are you so effin' mad?

Do you ever have to dilly dally with drivers of any sort on a PC? I have never on a Mac. I plug in my component and it works. I've seen you reformat a computer many times. How many hours of your life have you spent tinkering? Probably 50-100. Assuming you time is worth 100 dollars an hour, that is 5000 to 10000 dollars out of your pocket that simply owning a Mac you would never have to do.

I do agree that for a technophile such as you or I the experience of fine tuning a PC can be somewhat enjoyable, so it's not as black and white. I imagine it is hell for your typical user, though.

Some gripes on my end: Without installing cygwin (which is a pain in the ass from behind a proxy, btw, it took me awhile to figure it out), I can't even freaking grep. I use ps -ef | grep 'whatever I'm searching for' like 5 times a day. Why does Windows not have a similar utility built in by default? Good grief, it's not the 1980s anymore.

PCs are typically slower. Not from a hardware standpoint, but definitely from a software standpoint. From an OS standpoint, I think you and I can both agree that posix systems have a far superior level of memory management. Much more efficient at caching and using the resources available.

Go buy a new HP from Best Buy and look at all the crap pre-installed, set-up to run on boot. Look at all the shitty software they're paid to install to keep the price of the machine low. All the freaking shitty media players, disc writers, etc.

If you want to start with a fresh install from Dell for example, instead of a machine loaded with a bunch of shit, you have to pay an extra 50 dollars I'm pretty sure.

I fixed a gals Acer this summer because it took a Vista laptop over 3 minutes to boot into a useable state. My Mac? About 30 seconds. Imagine this happening every time you close the freaking the laptop. Wow. Not only that, just from a useability of the hardware standpoint, it was like comparing a chevy cavalier to an iron man audi. And that's completely disregarding speed. The keyboard sucked, the trackpad sucked (and the little scrolly thing didn't even work), it was a gigantic 15" screen with a 1280x800 res (aka extremely low DPI). You get what you pay for with that Acer shit and it was horrible. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'm mad because things like this don't happen to me. I'm a straight shooter who lives a very good life. I play by the rules and do not like to have to fuck around. Some DFI kid at the Apple store rang me up wrong and as a result I've had to dilly dally with a bunch of shit to get the rebate. I've done it two other times in the past with the same promotion and it was always pain free.

Macs are clearly a superior experience in my opinion and clearly in the general publics eye. That is why their market share is exploding and they're putting up record sales quarter after quarter. Can you honestly not tell me that you don't love how fine tuned your iPhone is? They're INCREDIBLE phones that nothing comes close to touching in terms of quality of the package. The refinement is what they're all about.

The only complaint about them that I've ever heard from anyone is AT&T related, never anything from the Apple end. The problem with them going with a carrier like Verizon is that Verizon is a control freak and wouldn't give Apple complete control over their package (ie. Having to buy music from the Verizon store instead of the iTunes music store, no visual voicemail, etc).

I love my MacBook Pro because it's an incredible machine. It is machined from a single piece of aluminum so it is built like a tank. Way nicer to carry, touch and has an overall way more solid feel than your typical notebook, even the higher end ones.

The keyboard is light years better than your typical PC. I don't think I've ever used a better mobile keyboard. At first I wasn't a fan of the chicklet keys but they have the perfect feel.

The Trackpad gets rid of those pesky small ass buttons that always management to click themselves when you're laying in bed working on the computer. Not only that, but I don't have to find some tiny line to scroll up and down. I can just drag two fingers wherever I want.

I HATE HATE HATE the new expose in Snow Leopard and believe it gets away from the core value of providing a productivity driven interface. It resizes all of your windows into a grid, versus keeping everything the same size and showing them all. Without having a reference to the size of the window it loses most of its value and it pisses me off. This is something that I literally use hundreds of times a day.

The typical person uses a computer for 8-10 hours a day. When you're spending that much time on it, anything you can do to improve the experience makes it a much more pleasant experience.

[Partial]

I already have and I'm not out $250. How much is that compared to the cost of an iPod again?

*Sigh*. Dealing with you is just painful. You don't use your head.

I will get my rebate, it is just a matter of getting on the horn with the right people. Are you honestly telling me you've never had any issues with rebates or haven't heard of this happening to anyone ever? If so, I envy you.

That said, iPod will be free after rebate. I already had an iPod so I sold it for cash on CL.

If you are content working on some thick, heavy, slow PC loaded with bloat ware, spyware and viruses, go ahead. Do yourself a favor and at least install Windows 7 or Ubuntu linux.

Big surprise. The Windows 7 upgrade came free with the computer. My computer is neither slow nor heavy and, oh look! came with the numeric keypad I never thought I'd find on a laptop. Actually, no, I've never had an issue with a rebate. You send the form, they send the check. It's pretty simple, really. Most good companies honor their rebate offers.

Good, I would install Windows 7 right away as it is light years better.

The problem? You need to completely reformat your computer and lose all your data to do it. How fucking dumb was that on their part? With an Apple, you haven't had to lose your data in 9 years.

You bought a 17" laptop with a keypad? Wow, perhaps that fits your needs better than mine but I cannot think of a single use case where I would enjoy that. It is just way too big. If you use it exclusively as a desktop replacement, than maybe, I guess, but the point of a notebook is to be mobile, not tied to a desk.

I'm personally hoping Apple comes out with an 11" MacBook Pro. The 13" is even a bit big from a mobility standpoint.

[Scott Campbell]

I read that Windows 7 could reliably be upgraded from Vista without a fresh install. And most PC makers are partitioning hard drives so that you don't lose all your data on a fresh install.

[Scott Campbell]

Do you ever have to dilly dally with drivers of any sort on a PC? I have never on a Mac. I plug in my component and it works. I've seen you reformat a computer many times. How many hours of your life have you spent tinkering? Probably 50-100. Assuming you time is worth 100 dollars an hour, that is 5000 to 10000 dollars out of your pocket that simply owning a Mac you would never have to do.

Have you ever had to dilly dally with a rebate on your Mac?

[pasquale]

I already have and I'm not out $250. How much is that compared to the cost of an iPod again?

*Sigh*. Dealing with you is just painful. You don't use your head.

I will get my rebate, it is just a matter of getting on the horn with the right people. Are you honestly telling me you've never had any issues with rebates or haven't heard of this happening to anyone ever? If so, I envy you.

That said, iPod will be free after rebate. I already had an iPod so I sold it for cash on CL.

If you are content working on some thick, heavy, slow PC loaded with bloat ware, spyware and viruses, go ahead. Do yourself a favor and at least install Windows 7 or Ubuntu linux.

How is it that none of my PCs have any viruses, spyware, or whatever the hell bloatware is? It's not that hard to avoid clicking on the "punch the monkey" ads or "click here for a free ipod."

It amazes me how people think macs are just the most incredible, life changing purchase that can be made. It's a computer. I think a yo-yo would change my life more, since I'd learn a new trick.

Please give me an example of how it removes barriers from my life. Seriously. Sounds like something you'd hear from visiting a Scientology church.

They make nice products, but I think people have to be real idiots to think that PCs are just so much slower and bloated. If that makes you feel like a better person, kudos. But don't spill your koolaide on everyone else.

And if you are convinced that rebates are not always pain free, why are you so effin' mad?

Do you ever have to dilly dally with drivers of any sort on a PC? I have never on a Mac. I plug in my component and it works. I've seen you reformat a computer many times. How many hours of your life have you spent tinkering? Probably 50-100. Assuming you time is worth 100 dollars an hour, that is 5000 to 10000 dollars out of your pocket that simply owning a Mac you would never have to do.

I do agree that for a technophile such as you or I the experience of fine tuning a PC can be somewhat enjoyable, so it's not as black and white. I imagine it is hell for your typical user, though.

Some gripes on my end: Without installing cygwin (which is a pain in the ass from behind a proxy, btw, it took me awhile to figure it out), I can't even freaking grep. I use ps -ef | grep 'whatever I'm searching for' like 5 times a day. Why does Windows not have a similar utility built in by default? Good grief, it's not the 1980s anymore.

PCs are typically slower. Not from a hardware standpoint, but definitely from a software standpoint. From an OS standpoint, I think you and I can both agree that posix systems have a far superior level of memory management. Much more efficient at caching and using the resources available.

Go buy a new HP from Best Buy and look at all the crap pre-installed, set-up to run on boot. Look at all the shitty software they're paid to install to keep the price of the machine low. All the freaking shitty media players, disc writers, etc.

If you want to start with a fresh install from Dell for example, instead of a machine loaded with a bunch of shit, you have to pay an extra 50 dollars I'm pretty sure.

I fixed a gals Acer this summer because it took a Vista laptop over 3 minutes to boot into a useable state. My Mac? About 30 seconds. Imagine this happening every time you close the freaking the laptop. Wow. Not only that, just from a useability of the hardware standpoint, it was like comparing a chevy cavalier to an iron man audi. And that's completely disregarding speed. The keyboard sucked, the trackpad sucked (and the little scrolly thing didn't even work), it was a gigantic 15" screen with a 1280x800 res (aka extremely low DPI). You get what you pay for with that Acer shit and it was horrible. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'm mad because things like this don't happen to me. I'm a straight shooter who lives a very good life. I play by the rules and do not like to have to fuck around. Some DFI kid at the Apple store rang me up wrong and as a result I've had to dilly dally with a bunch of shit to get the rebate. I've done it two other times in the past with the same promotion and it was always pain free.

Macs are clearly a superior experience in my opinion and clearly in the general publics eye. That is why their market share is exploding and they're putting up record sales quarter after quarter. Can you honestly not tell me that you don't love how fine tuned your iPhone is? They're INCREDIBLE phones that nothing comes close to touching in terms of quality of the package. The refinement is what they're all about.

The only complaint about them that I've ever heard from anyone is AT&T related, never anything from the Apple end. The problem with them going with a carrier like Verizon is that Verizon is a control freak and wouldn't give Apple complete control over their package (ie. Having to buy music from the Verizon store instead of the iTunes music store, no visual voicemail, etc).

I love my MacBook Pro because it's an incredible machine. It is machined from a single piece of aluminum so it is built like a tank. Way nicer to carry, touch and has an overall way more solid feel than your typical notebook, even the higher end ones.

The keyboard is light years better than your typical PC. I don't think I've ever used a better mobile keyboard. At first I wasn't a fan of the chicklet keys but they have the perfect feel.

The Trackpad gets rid of those pesky small ass buttons that always management to click themselves when you're laying in bed working on the computer. Not only that, but I don't have to find some tiny line to scroll up and down. I can just drag two fingers wherever I want.

I HATE HATE HATE the new expose in Snow Leopard and believe it gets away from the core value of providing a productivity driven interface. It resizes all of your windows into a grid, versus keeping everything the same size and showing them all. Without having a reference to the size of the window it loses most of its value and it pisses me off. This is something that I literally use hundreds of times a day.

The typical person uses a computer for 8-10 hours a day. When you're spending that much time on it, anything you can do to improve the experience makes it a much more pleasant experience.

My reformatting over the years is based on me messing things up in linux. Gentoo is a horribly unstable OS, but I love it.

My iPhone is not a computer. I do agree that I love it, but again, you are GENERALIZING. Not all people have the same experiences with both systems, so don't make it that way.

And you missed my point, people who don't know any better have terrible windows experiences - I agree on that. But for people like us that know wtf is going on, I have a hard time when people say I'm just wasting my time with Windows. For most people it's probably true, for me, it's ridiculous.

Grep is available on windows, and god forbid I have to spend <2mins to install it.

That being said, Vista can go fuck itself in the face, because once that word pops up, I agree that any OSx vs Vista argument is useless. OSx hands down. I really don't even like Windows, and I'm not defending it, but I do think people worship Macs and give them too much credit. It does not, change your life.

I wonder if insurance companies document buying a mac as a life changing event...

[pasquale]

And messing with drivers? meh, a bit. Most mobo companies make it really easy to get what you need, so it's been a while since I've really had to dig for stuff. Keep in mind that anyone can make hardware for windows.

But since mac is the only company to oversee their hardware to run their OS, I would sure hope that they can get their drivers straight.

[SkinBasket]

And messing with drivers? meh, a bit. Most mobo companies make it really easy to get what you need, so it's been a while since I've really had to dig for stuff. Keep in mind that anyone can make hardware for windows.

But since mac is the only company to oversee their hardware to run their OS, I would sure hope that they can get their drivers straight.

I was thinking the same thing. Been over 5 years since I had to download or even worry about drivers. Oh, the painful cost of diversity and cost intelligent components!!

[Partial]

I read that Windows 7 could reliably be upgraded from Vista without a fresh install. And most PC makers are partitioning hard drives so that you don't lose all your data on a fresh install.

I've read that you cannot. For users sake, I hope I read wrong.

[Partial]

And messing with drivers? meh, a bit. Most mobo companies make it really easy to get what you need, so it's been a while since I've really had to dig for stuff. Keep in mind that anyone can make hardware for windows.

But since mac is the only company to oversee their hardware to run their OS, I would sure hope that they can get their drivers straight.

I agree with this, but we're tech savvy people. I also agree that tech savy peeps will have a fine time on Windows. Most adults are not tech savvy. Take a situation, for example.

Sally Martenson reformats to install Win7. She needs to install laptop drivers, but doesn't even know what that is. Her trackpad and keyboard don't work by default.

She's going to think Win7 broke her computer. She isn't going to realize she needs to go to the manufacturers website and download new drivers to install.

This happened with my work laptop, an IBM thinkpad, so this is a realistic situation that people will encounter and not know how to handle.

[Zool]

I really don't even like Windows, and I'm not defending it, but I do think people worship Macs and give them too much credit. It does not, change your life.

THIS! Apple can do wrong. I've seen it happen.

I've actually flopped my hackintosh lappy over to Windows 7 to try it out. I got ahold of a RTM version. I installed it and havent messed with a single thing since. I had Vista on this same lappy for about 6.5 minutes. I used to think that Windows ME was the worst OS ever...how wrong I was.

[red]

yeah, vista is horrible

os should make your life easier, not be the main star of the show and hog all your memory

i'll be getting a new laptop soon with windows 7

if it doesn't suck horribly

[Partial]

I really don't even like Windows, and I'm not defending it, but I do think people worship Macs and give them too much credit. It does not, change your life.

THIS! Apple can do wrong. I've seen it happen.

I've actually flopped my hackintosh lappy over to Windows 7 to try it out. I got ahold of a RTM version. I installed it and havent messed with a single thing since. I had Vista on this same lappy for about 6.5 minutes. I used to think that Windows ME was the worst OS ever...how wrong I was.

How does the hackintosh laptop work? I find it to be a very tight experience with the desktop (especially with the logitech mx510 side buttons for expose) but I cannot imagine it going smoothly on a laptop because of the trackpad limitations, etc.

[Zool]

I really don't even like Windows, and I'm not defending it, but I do think people worship Macs and give them too much credit. It does not, change your life.

THIS! Apple can do wrong. I've seen it happen.

I've actually flopped my hackintosh lappy over to Windows 7 to try it out. I got ahold of a RTM version. I installed it and havent messed with a single thing since. I had Vista on this same lappy for about 6.5 minutes. I used to think that Windows ME was the worst OS ever...how wrong I was.

How does the hackintosh laptop work? I find it to be a very tight experience with the desktop (especially with the logitech mx510 side buttons for expose) but I cannot imagine it going smoothly on a laptop because of the trackpad limitations, etc.

Cant use the double finger scroll and the FSB drivers were a lot harder to get working. The desktop was a breeze but the laptop was not so much. The vid was a little flakey too so I went with 7.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

Market share exploding.

[Freak Out]

Worse than ME....

Vista is ok once you get the settings right.

I'm a fucking hardware geek so I'm upgrading and building rigs all the time it seems....dealing with drivers is just....normal.

I've been running the last W7 RC for months now non stop and have had ZERO problems. I update an ATI driver when released and that's it.

I have an older Macbook and may buy a pro now just for running Adobe aps....you are almost forced to go pro now after the latest neutering Apple did on the Macbook.

Nothings perfect....Snow Kitty has issues just like any other OS and the hardware Apple uses is not immune to failures and problems.

[Partial]

Worse than ME....

Vista is ok once you get the settings right.

I'm a fucking hardware geek so I'm upgrading and building rigs all the time it seems....dealing with drivers is just....normal.

I've been running the last W7 RC for months now non stop and have had ZERO problems. I update an ATI driver when released and that's it.

I have an older Macbook and may buy a pro now just for running Adobe aps....you are almost forced to go pro now after the latest neutering Apple did on the Macbook.

Nothings perfect....Snow Kitty has issues just like any other OS and the hardware Apple uses is not immune to failures and problems.

What apps require discrete graphics? Adobe CS as I understand it is mostly CPU intensive not so much 3d graphics.

[Freak Out]

Worse than ME....

Vista is ok once you get the settings right.

I'm a fucking hardware geek so I'm upgrading and building rigs all the time it seems....dealing with drivers is just....normal.

I've been running the last W7 RC for months now non stop and have had ZERO problems. I update an ATI driver when released and that's it.

I have an older Macbook and may buy a pro now just for running Adobe aps....you are almost forced to go pro now after the latest neutering Apple did on the Macbook.

Nothings perfect....Snow Kitty has issues just like any other OS and the hardware Apple uses is not immune to failures and problems.

What apps require discrete graphics? Adobe CS as I understand it is mostly CPU intensive not so much 3d graphics.

None require it as far as I know.....I just like how the software /feels and runs on OSX/Intel machines better.

Apple removed the firewire port and the SD card slot from the macbook on this last update. Not a biggy to some but I like a built in memory card slot.

[Partial]

Worse than ME....

Vista is ok once you get the settings right.

I'm a fucking hardware geek so I'm upgrading and building rigs all the time it seems....dealing with drivers is just....normal.

I've been running the last W7 RC for months now non stop and have had ZERO problems. I update an ATI driver when released and that's it.

I have an older Macbook and may buy a pro now just for running Adobe aps....you are almost forced to go pro now after the latest neutering Apple did on the Macbook.

Nothings perfect....Snow Kitty has issues just like any other OS and the hardware Apple uses is not immune to failures and problems.

What apps require discrete graphics? Adobe CS as I understand it is mostly CPU intensive not so much 3d graphics.

None require it as far as I know.....I just like how the software /feels and runs on OSX/Intel machines better.

How did Apple neuter the MacBook, then, in a way that it affects Adobe CS?

Snow Leopard does have a lot of issues so far from what I'm hearing but I haven't seen any surface. I really, really, really, really, really hate the new expose, though.

I agree on the firewire. I don't know what they were thinking. Target disk mode is freaking awesome and the envy of PC users everywhere, and then again it F's over the casual user who wants to use an older DV camcorder. I don't so much care about the SD card slot but I can see where someone would want one.