Agreed that the pic on the left looks like a case of gyno - you can look like the pic on the right w/o roids (he actually doesn't look that bad - face is clear) but the one on the left raises all kinds of flags.
Anyone care to comment on these pics?
Agreed that the pic on the left looks like a case of gyno - you can look like the pic on the right w/o roids (he actually doesn't look that bad - face is clear) but the one on the left raises all kinds of flags.
Anyone care to comment on these pics?
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Imagine for a moment a world without hypothetical situations...
had to paste the URL to see them. those are high school shots, am pretty sure. they look totally normal. in most cases, almost anything is possible with the body, just happens a lot faster with anabolics. from earliest stages of puberty up until early 20s everyone has high levels of these substances flowing through their bodies, especially males who have very high testosterone levels during puberty. this is the optimal time to be taking advantage of the free and natural roids, and any kid that safely hits the weights hard enough (starting as early as age 12 in some cases, yes it is safe, feel free to debate with me if you want) can look like a monster come 18-20 years of age. anyone with someone to help them with a solid lifting program (coach, dad, experienced mentor) that focuses on the big lifts (squats, heavy presses, deads, heavy pulls) can achieve pretty massive size and strength totals without taking one single illegal substance. the key component for these individuals will be getting enough total calories and protein intakes to support the pounds they are trying to add to their frames.Originally Posted by Guiness
Agreed that the pic on the left looks like a case of gyno - you can look like the pic on the right w/o roids (he actually doesn't look that bad - face is clear) but the one on the left raises all kinds of flags.
Anyone care to comment on these pics?
so, with Matthews it is much more likely that he could fit this kind of bill with a grandfather, father and uncle that were there before him. not saying clay is guaranteed clean, just that his family history would give him greater odds of learning the legal tricks much sooner. james laurenitis, another good exampe of a next generation athlete, when he is home works out at the gym i work out of. you don't need to watch him for long to see he learned the right way very early on. his father (Animal from the Road Warriors) spent a lifetime in the same gym, knows the ins and outs. so james got a big head start from dad, his body shows it if you see high school photos, also got a huge boost from the school program he was in in HS. his sister is also way ahead of the curve, stronger looking than most girls her age, just from learning proper technique and getting started early with dad as a mentor. i can make the same comments about Carl Eller's son when he was in high shool, way ahead of the curve in late teens before he got injured at penn state. parents that know how to exercise and lift the right way pass it on to their kids pretty often and it usually shows.
www.rotoworld.com
Clay Matthews??? DROY?According to Associated Press advisor Dave Goldberg, the AP may hold a re-vote for the 2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year award.
Goldberg is also a Rookie of the Year voter. A decision isn't expected for a few days "at least," but Brian Cushing is in danger of being stripped of his award after testing positive for a banned substance last September. Cushing insists that it wasn't steroids. The linebacker wouldn't just lose the trophy, he'd also lose incentives based on rookie-year accomplishments.
Source: Dave Goldberg on Twitter
Brian Cushing, LB, Houston 39
Jairus Byrd, S, Buffalo 6
Clay Matthews III, LB, Green Bay 3
Brian Orakpo, LB, Washington 2
well, Byrd was in second place, so who knows.
A re-vote would be the fairest option, as 6 out of 50 votes does not seem like enough to justify the award, especially with stripping 39 of 50 voters of their opinion. I would not be surprised if Byrd wins a re-vote, especially if Clay is bitten by some of the taint from Cushing.Brian Cushing, LB, Houston 39
Jairus Byrd, S, Buffalo 6
Clay Matthews III, LB, Green Bay 3
Brian Orakpo, LB, Washington 2
well, Byrd was in second place, so who knows.
Does anyone know if there Matthews has a bonus clause for winning the DROY?
Fire Murphy, Gute, MLF, Barry, Senavich, etc!
Since JH never responded I'll take a shot at it. Like you I have a pretty wide knowledge of this subject.like what? what performance enhancer (PE) do you think would help him look like he does that is not an anabolic? i am not going after your post, but i do wish more people would expand their knowledge of how certain PEs work and what they actually do for you versus lumping them into one big group. i take sevral PEs, all are legal for me (some may not be for an NFL player), and they all do completely different things for me while all still being PEs. none of them are even remotely close to what Cushing's 'substances' might have done for him illegally.
To my experience guys on roids are more compact. Muscles get to develop that don't develop quite as naturally (Barry Bonds muscles just over his ears that caused the cap size explosion). Clay is long and lean....take a look at a picture of Frank Zane. There is an entire body building competition out there for "clean" competitors (can't recall the name right now.) Clay does exhibit a body type more in line with a clean body (not saying he is clean, but saying if you look at him next to cushing and had to pick one for the money, cushing would be my bet to be on roids.)
Roid guys can get MUCH bigger while still maintaining muscle separation than a clean guy can. For me, I can get to about 190 while still having a ripped body....no bigger, ever. I can get stronger and bigger, but I lose the muscle separation. Its hard to describe in type, but you have been around the gym and know what I mean. If you got a 6'4" guy who looks more like 6'6" standing by a 6'4" guy who at first glance looks 6'2" and you gotta pick the guy on roids, its contestant 2 every time.
One last point where I disagree with you. Steroids DO allow you to achieve a higher result without working nearly as hard. You have to work some to stimulate growth, but the chemical makeup of a steroid is different than that of testosterone. It stimulates repair in a different way that allows cartoon character muscles. If what you say about simply allowing you to work out in a way to hit potential faster were true then there would never be a need to shoot anything other than testosterone. As it stands you can get silly results with nothing more than T and Growth, but you still won't ever compete with a guy shooting top of the line designer steroids. He will develop muscles that never would develop without roids, and he will develop other muscles in ways that they wouldn't without the juice. I can't work my calves in a way to get them bigger...genetic limitations and all, but one cylcle and I bet I'd add an inch to them.....an inch I haven't been able to add in 15 years of doing it clean.
I don't hold Grudges. It's counterproductive.
do you think someone willing to pay for roids, take on the physical risks involved, would not actually work as hard as possible in the gym? you may have a point as to just how little you can get away and still get growth, but i would doubt too many people that walk that path get by on as little as possible, that would be a waste of their time and money. when i get my natural gains it makes me want even more and the last thing i am thinking about is backing off even an inch. like a shark i smell blood in the water and get after it even harder when i suspect my body is ready for it. a friend of mine is juicing right now, has put on about 20 lbs in the last month, he is kicking up his workouts well beyond what he had been doing because his body is letting him, not getting by on the same old same old.
concerning body types..whether a body is ectomorph, endomorph, or mesomorph, steroids will help them all. longer arms and legs have more potential for ultimate gain that more compact bodies because they have more space to hold mass. shorter levers build faster simply because of physics, but cannot hold the same amount of mass as a longer frame. this is one reason why franco columbo never had a chance in hell at the O versus arnold who towered over him. i also will not say that one single body type is so much more agreable to steroids than another that i would judge who may or may not use them just by looking at their height. as far as i know, if you want to get on them you will, regardless of your body type. the only way to tell beyond drug tests will be your classic signs on the exterior: the acne, shrunken balls, oily skin, hair loss, increased aggresion, depression and mood swings, that sexy gyno we've been seeing in this string, etc.
as far as getting into muscle seperation, i'll take a pass on that one. my knowledge does not drift far enough into competitive bodybuilding and the subtleties involved and i won't pretend that it's an area i can speak in confidence about.
but if by some chance you are referring to 'defitniton' when you say separation that has to do simply with bodyfat percentage. anyone, no matter what their size and frame, if they achieve a low enogh BF% is going to look incredible, steroids or not. steroid users will achieve much greater muscle mass while maintaining incredibly low BF% than your non user. the steroids will protect against muscle catabolism during dieting and potential overtraining. i said this same thing a few posts ago.
What is this muscle called? How do you exercise it? Did he hang tiny weights off his lip and then open and close his mouth repeatedly?
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
lastly, my shout out to JH was simply asking for an explanation as to what actual enhancers he might be on if he is not getting gains from steroids, because i really don't know of any that would help you that are not, and i did mean all forms of steroid, growth hormone, etc as it is my opinion that they are typically all thrown together. beyond those, what else is there? there is not enough education out there right now. too many people can look at a natural body that has been worked to great levels and cry foul or suggest something fishy is going on. possibly because they have not been around people that have done it or maybe just haven't spent enough time in a gym? i know too many ripped up and massive frames that have never even sniffed an illegal substance to get by to let those comments go without saying something to the contrary. i just am hoping that as time goes by more people will understand that it is not impossible to put together a scary package of massive and ripped up physique without using steroids or other drugs. it does happen, they're not all on drugs.
i think it's called the 'hatred for mark mcgwire' muscle. when he saw mark in 98' he got incredibly jealous and pissed and that sucker started swelling even before he started taking his vitamins.What is this muscle called? How do you exercise it? Did he hang tiny weights off his lip and then open and close his mouth repeatedly?
www.rotoworld.com
The Associated Press announced Monday that it will conduct a re-vote for the 2009 Defensive Player of the Year award, citing previous winner Brian Cushing's violation of the NFL's policy on PEDs.
Cushing is eligible in the re-vote, but he's not likely to win. His All-Pro status is also in danger of being stripped, as the AP will re-vote for one of its outside linebacker positions. Though Jairus Byrd finished second in Defensive ROY voting in the winter, we're betting third-place finisher Clay Matthews would edge him out considering Green Bay's finish to the season. Brian Orakpo, who had 11 sacks to Matthews' 10, may also be a serious contender.
HOFer
Thanks for your willingness to share, I learned a lot reading this thread. I have no idea how any of this stuff works, and have never seen much less tried PE's. At least I've got a vague idea now.
believe it or not, Jeff Willet is natural
so is Jim Cordova
so is Mike Ashley
so is Tom Venuto
so is Lee Labrada
got roids?
WTF roids
double roids
master of roids
his and her roids
innocent
So now that it's come to light that the substance Cushing tested positive for was Human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), can anybody who knows about this stuff (27?) comment on whether there's any reason for a clean athlete to be taking this?
</delurk>
i am far from even a novice when it comes to the ins and outs of all of the specific drugs (and it's list that seems to grow everyday) that people will use to get ahead. this isn't my world and i won't pretend it is. i know what an anabolic steroid can do for you, know about a few others on some lists that are not steroids, but don't spend much time learning more than that. so here's what i found on another site:
'In the world of performance enhancing drugs, hCG is increasingly used in combination with various anabolic androgenic steroid (AAS) cycles. As a result, hCG is included in some sports' illegal drug lists.
When AAS are put into a male body, the body's natural negative-feedback loops cause the body to shut down its own production of testosterone via shutdown of the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPGA). This causes testicular atrophy, among other things. hCG is commonly used during and after steroid cycles to maintain and restore testicular size as well as normal testosterone production.'
HOFer
this new info thats come out today really makes a lot of sense after the whole man boob discussion, doesn't it?
so let me see if i got this straight?
in a nut shell
a guy takes an roids to get ahead. the roids cause his body to stop making testosterone leading to his nuts shrinking and the gyno problem that leads to the man boobs. when the guy is then done with the roid cycle (i guess you use these in cycles, not all the time?), so once he's done with the roids he uses this HCG to kick start the the testosterone again. which would lead to the nuts getting bigger and the gyno boobs going away?
is that kind of the ballpark?
pft also mentioned that doctors are saying that yes, this does occur naturally in the body, but not in level that would be detected in a healthy person. they then mention that the fact that he didn't fail another test after the first proves that the HCG at that level is not naturally in his body, he had to put it there.
The timeline that PFT lines up with
Cushing injures his knee in August
Cushing takes his mandatory scheduled drug test, passes
Knee isn't healing as fast as Cushing wants it to.
Cushing takes 'roids to speed up the recovery processs.
Cushing takes hCG coming off the 'roid cycle.
Cushing gets nailed by a random drug test in September.
That seems to be pretty plausible.
</delurk>
My sources (well, actually one guy) says that the somewhat informed speculation on Sosa was that he was originally a creatine guy. I am not trying to suggest that makes him different that anyone else, nor am I making the case that he has never done anything else.
But this source, who knows creatine use through a certain NCAA Div 1 football program says that this is the accepted guess about what Sammy was using as he got bigger initially. Something about his physical appearance made them think this. Although, now that he has gone pale, that guess may have changed.
Track guys used to guess who was using by looking for physical symptoms. Ben Johnson's yellowed eyes made other sprinters suspicious in Seoul.
Bud Adams told me the franchise he admired the most was the Kansas City Chiefs. Then he asked for more hookers and blow.
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