McCarthy and "Close Games"

[Gunakor]

Close games are won in the 4th quarter -- MM has zero cred.

Then let's not make games close. I'd much rather blow out the competition by halftime anyway.

Which really speaks to the big concern I do have with McCarthy, that being his tendency to take his foot off the gas as soon as he gets a comfortable lead.

[packrulz]

Bottom line: you have to be able to run the ball in close games, the Packers running game doesn't scare anyone, defenses usually get away with rushing only 3 or 4 down lineman, and have the luxury of dropping everyone into coverage. Even more than special teams, the Packers offensive line has to run block better, open some holes! Otherwise, they're not going very far even if they do make the playoffs.

[th87]

I was watching SoundFX with Mike Holmgren, and he said to the victorious Packers, "You guys just wanted it more." Usually, I dismiss such statements as cliches, but it got me thinking. That 96 team had some real ruthless players on it - Reggie White, Wayne Simmons, Sean Jones, Frank Winters, the QB, etc. Players who would run through a brick wall to win.

This team is very talented, but it doesn't appear to have the ruthlessness of the 96 squad. The players are nice people, and excellent players, but they don't seem to have the extra gear to really want to break their opponents. This may be a cause of close losses as well.

[Patler]

I was watching SoundFX with Mike Holmgren, and he said to the victorious Packers, "You guys just wanted it more." Usually, I dismiss such statements as cliches, but it got me thinking. That 96 team had some real ruthless players on it - Reggie White, Wayne Simmons, Sean Jones, Frank Winters, the QB, etc. Players who would run through a brick wall to win.

This team is very talented, but it doesn't appear to have the ruthlessness of the 96 squad. The players are nice people, and excellent players, but they don't seem to have the extra gear to really want to break their opponents. This may be a cause of close losses as well. TT's Seattle teams seemed to have a similar personality, so I'd be curious to see their records in close games.

For a lot of successful NFL teams there is an aura of "nastiness". Watch the Steelers play. There are a lot of players on the Steelers who hit as hard as they can always, whether blocking, tackling or running with the ball. There is an overriding demeanor of toughness in their style of play. I think it tends to wear down opponents. The Packers have a few of those players, like Mathews and Bishop. Woodson has it for the position he plays. Offensively, the Packers show very little of that, which is what makes Kuhn a refreshing change when he carries the ball. Some writers have suggested that Sitton has an edginess to his game, but I don't think it comes out well in the Packers offensive scheme, which tends to be more finesse.

I think you can succeed either way, but "nastier" teams may have a mental edge against some players.

[mraynrand]

What happens if we beat the Giants and Bears in the final two weeks and then beat the Bears in the first round of the playoffs?

We play in the Divisional round

[denverYooper]

Bottom line: you have to be able to run the ball in close games, the Packers running game doesn't scare anyone, defenses usually get away with rushing only 3 or 4 down lineman, and have the luxury of dropping everyone into coverage. Even more than special teams, the Packers offensive line has to run block better, open some holes! Otherwise, they're not going very far even if they do make the playoffs.

They ran the ball too well at the end of the last game...

[rbaloha1]

My point in referencing the stats over the years was to point out an anomaly this season. Our offense has been top 5, top 10 in both points and yards in each of the last 3 seasons. This year they are not. I contend this is very specifically due to the loss of Ryan Grant. Without a legitimate workhorse at RB half the playbook gets thrown out the window. Not only the run game struggles, but play action doesn't work either. Then you lose your threat at TE and become even more constricted in your playcalling. At the same time, opposing defenses have less to plan against, making it that much more difficult to move the ball against them.

My post was, after all, in response to your contention that even without injuries MM will and has always screwed it up. I just wanted to illustrate that he hasn't screwed up as much as you'd like to believe during his time here, and that perhaps injuries at key positions have indeed played a very significant role in our offensive struggles this season.

True. The defense has also suffered numerous injuries but is still playing at a level which allows the offense to win games. Its MM screw-ups costing games.

[rbaloha1]

Then let's not make games close. I'd much rather blow out the competition by halftime anyway.

Which really speaks to the big concern I do have with McCarthy, that being his tendency to take his foot off the gas as soon as he gets a comfortable lead.

Generally playoff games are close.

[rbaloha1]

What happens if we beat the Giants and Bears in the final two weeks and then beat the Bears in the first round of the playoffs?

What happens if they do not?

[mraynrand]

What happens if they do not?

[Smidgeon]

True. The defense has also suffered numerous injuries but is still playing at a level which allows the offense to win games. Its MM screw-ups costing games.

What's your problem with McCarthy? Where did this all come from? (And yes, those are honest questions. I'm curious.)

[denverYooper]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...se-game-record

McCarthy is 2nd worst (.250) among active coaches behind Chan Gailey (.208) and ahead of John Harbaugh (.308), Ken Whisenhunt (.385), and Norv Tuner(.422)

[mmmdk]

Try 15-21 record including playoffs.

Try another; substract the games decided by 7 point and it's a 10-18 record. Besides, 7 points only ties for OT...lastly, Stubby record in OT is a 1-6 record.

Go Stubster!

It's 15-21 record for Stubby (games decided by 7 or less) - I just went through games [again]. It's like counting sheep...

[rbaloha1]

What's your problem with McCarthy? Where did this all come from? (And yes, those are honest questions. I'm curious.)

Supported the hire. Liked the direction of the team from 06-08 seasons. Somewhat controlled Favre and handled the transition superbly. Impressed with Rodgers development.

During the 09 season the alarm bells sounded -- beat up bad teams and lost to good teams. Still made the playoffs.

This season it was the Miami game. MM failed to help BB against Wake which cost the game. The continual losing of close games and now the chance of not making the playoffs is not what the Packers are about.

Green Bay is titletown for a reason -- imo MM shall not add to titles by continuing to choke in close games. The numbers are hideous and not championship caliber coaching.

[MJZiggy]

What happens if we beat the Giants and Bears in the final two weeks and then beat the Bears in the first round of the playoffs?

Then they stop posting for a couple months and continue their ravings around draft time when they think we've all forgotten about it. Joe, if we beat them by four or less, it just means we're lucky like Lovie. We have to beat them in the fourth quarter only and the first three quarters and overall performance of the team mean nothing so there will be no praising anyone for outstanding performance unless it was in the last 2 minutes of the game.

I've been reading the game thread and it occurs to me that some of you girls need a midol and a tampon. Truly insane that with all that's gone on this season with the position that this team is in, that you could even think at the end of that game that the coach needed to be fired. I have never had PMS-related insanity quite that bad. For godssakes, people!

[Charles Woodson]

What's your problem with McCarthy? Where did this all come from? (And yes, those are honest questions. I'm curious.)

I assume this isnt a personal question, so let me answer for him. The problem with MM is the stat listed in DenverYoopers post. MM is 5-15 all time in games decided by 4 points. Im really tired of the argument, "Yea we lost but we played really good! We'll beat them when it matters. blah blah blah." I want to be able to win close games vs good teams. MM just doesnt know how to run a two minute drill. We should have one that game against the patriots. We lost because MM butchered the last 4 minutes of the game. The reason you get hired as an NFL head coach is because you know how to run the team. This isn't learning on the job.

[swede]

The thing with MM is he's like a running back that will get you 200 yards and 3 touchdowns every game and then fumble when the game is on the line. Do you get rid of a guy that good? You wouldn't have been in the game without him. But he always manages to mess up at the end.

MM is the best coach in the league from Tuesday through Sunday morning. I mean this sincerely: he needs to let somebody else handle game day. Find a good new OC this year whose strength is game management and let him handle the job. Stubby can still design the game plan, but he should limit himself to wearing bigger headphones and looking tough for the camera.

[rbaloha1]

Then they stop posting for a couple months and continue their ravings around draft time when they think we've all forgotten about it. Joe, if we beat them by four or less, it just means we're lucky like Lovie. We have to beat them in the fourth quarter only and the first three quarters and overall performance of the team mean nothing so there will be no praising anyone for outstanding performance unless it was in the last 2 minutes of the game.

I've been reading the game thread and it occurs to me that some of you girls need a midol and a tampon. Truly insane that with all that's gone on this season with the position that this team is in, that you could even think at the end of that game that the coach needed to be fired. I have never had PMS-related insanity quite that bad. For godssakes, people!

Rant as you want. At the end of the day, MM's record in close and meaningful games is horrible -- zero disputing. MM is good at developing (i.e. Brooks and Rodgers) or enhancing careers (i.e. Gannon, Delhomme and Favre) qbs. MM has proven HE CAN NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIP(S) IN TITLETOWN, USA.

Keep up the truthiness and see where it leads you.

[MJZiggy]

Rant as you want. At the end of the day, MM's record in close and meaningful games is horrible -- zero disputing. MM is good at developing (i.e. Brooks and Rodgers) or enhancing careers (i.e. Gannon, Delhomme and Favre) qbs. MM has proven HE CAN NOT WIN CHAMPIONSHIP(S) IN TITLETOWN, USA.

Keep up the truthiness and see where it leads you.

CANNOT and HAS not are two entirely different concepts. You're setting yourself up to look like a complete idiot if he does...I need to start bookmarking some of these threads...

[rbaloha1]

CANNOT and HAS not are two entirely different concepts. You're setting yourself up to look like a complete idiot if he does...I need to start bookmarking some of these threads...

Please do. Mele Kalekimaka!