wow. lots of talk about the running games

[RashanGary]

Or is McGinn right that he is protecting Wood from playing outside?

I think they really like Woodson inside because it opens up a lot of his playbook. Woodson was the DPOY last year. I really don't think he stinks all of a sudden on the outside.

[bobblehead]

Sure you show up now with this Waldo! But two months ago when I was trying to sort it out, everyone wanted to blame injuries. Sometime in the month after that thread, McGinn finally coughed up a number like 16%: as in, the Packers had played base D 16% of snaps in the entire season.

But do you think he is doing it because he has that much faith in nickel run D OR because he knows Woodson in the slot and Shields outside is a far better matchup than any 3rd lineman?

Or is McGinn right that he is protecting Wood from playing outside?

PB, you and I had this conversation at that time. I said that the packers weren't making stopping the run a priority this year and were playing a D with the attitude of: Go ahead and run the ball enough to keep up with Aaron...I dare you.

Its not about the faith in the nickel so much as its having so much faith in the Offense that you are willing to sacrifice the run D to not give up anything in the passing game.

I love the stat waldo posted about 2nd in short yardage run D. It speaks volumes of what happens when this unit prioritizes anything. And welcome back Waldo. Even if I disagree with you about Kampman, I still like your posts.

[bobblehead]

I think they really like Woodson inside because it opens up a lot of his playbook. Woodson was the DPOY last year. I really don't think he stinks all of a sudden on the outside.

Outside his no longer his strength, but besides Bob Sanders, I can't think of a DB I've EVER watched who supports the run D like Wood does. Move him to safety already, not that it matters the way we use him.

[Waldo]

When in 2-4-5 against base run personnel we are actually technically playing big nickel (2 CB, 3 S) with Wood usually as the SS. Wood really don't have a definable position, sometimes it leans CB, sometime it leans S, sometime it leans LB.

GB's run D stats in YPC look like crap. But answer this, who actually "established the run" against GB?

I think that Dom is confident that his nickel D won't give up a first down via the run on 1st and 10, and confident on his D's ability to play well situationally on other downs. I think he'd rather stop the potential play action pass that can hurt than not bleed first down yards on the ground. Gaining 5 yards looks great to an OC on 1st, but it doesn't gain you a whole lot vs. this D. You know Dom is worried about the run when you see us in a 3-4 on 1st down. Something he doesn't do a whole lot, even if they are showing run heavy.

[Joe]

Who is the 1000 yard receiver on the Bears?

Johnny Knox.

I believe that includes the playoff game. I saw the stat somewhere this week and checked it out. He had 960 in reg season, and this has to include playoffs.

[pbmax]

Who are the three DL in this formation? Jenkins/Raji/Pickett?

If its a potential run by down and distance, its Green with Raji and Pickett.

[pbmax]

PB, you and I had this conversation at that time. I said that the packers weren't making stopping the run a priority this year and were playing a D with the attitude of: Go ahead and run the ball enough to keep up with Aaron...I dare you.

Its not about the faith in the nickel so much as its having so much faith in the Offense that you are willing to sacrifice the run D to not give up anything in the passing game.

I love the stat waldo posted about 2nd in short yardage run D. It speaks volumes of what happens when this unit prioritizes anything. And welcome back Waldo. Even if I disagree with you about Kampman, I still like your posts.

Perhaps that is the reason, but it would be strange to continue to do it with the offense struggling for a good stretch in the middle of the season. I think it has to do with refusing to give up big pass plays like last year. This personnel and its cousins are a response to Arizona and Pittsburgh in my mind.

[Joemailman]

What Waldo's talking about is why I think Raji is the Defensive MVP. His presence inside enables Dom to go mostly nickel without getting gashed by opposing running games. That keeps Woodson inside where he is most effective and dangerous.

[Guiness]

When in 2-4-5 against base run personnel we are actually technically playing big nickel (2 CB, 3 S) with Wood usually as the SS. Wood really don't have a definable position, sometimes it leans CB, sometime it leans S, sometime it leans LB.

I get a kick out of how hard it is to recognize that we are supposedly in some sort of nickel. You'd swear we were in a base 4-3! Four guys up on the line (2 DL, 2 LBs), three players lined up like LBs (2LB's and Woodson) and 4 DB's. Tell me how this is 2-4-5? 8-D

I love it when Woodson lines up between the two MLB's. You could see Vick glancing at him when he did that in the Wildcard game - sure got in his head. On one play he shot the A-gap! Don't think I've seen a CB do that before...

[Smidgeon]

Who cares.

When GB tries to stop the run, they stuff it. Dom plays nickel even against run personnel. They aren't actually trying to run, they are trying to "keep the defense honest" to set up PA. Dom is dishonest. GB played more nickel in '10 than any other team, by a huge margin. And GB was the best team against PA passing. By a huge margin. Runs don't gash GB for explosive plays that set up scores. They make 2nd/3rd down manageable, that about it. Dom runs the ultimate white elephant D. GB is one of the best in the league at stuffing short yardage runs (#2), one of the best in the league at not allowing TD's, and well above average at not allowing first downs via the run. Odd for a team that is one of the league's worst at YPA. LOL.

Waldo!

[Tarlam!]

Waldo!

+1

Love Waldo's takes, always have, always will.

[Freak Out]

I like it when Waldo posts drunk.

[CaptainKickass]

But answer this, who actually "established the run" against GB?

The silence is broken.

Glad to see you posting here as always.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've made the argument that Waldo is making. Our run stats aren't good, but we are a good run defense. I think Miami and Minnesota established the run against us early in the season, but we were beat up. Earlier in the year, QBs were gouging us pretty good on scrambles. Not so much lately.

[vince]

Yeah, not to pile on pb, but I too recall mentioning how the Packers were playing mostly nickel and that they weren't giving up points so there was no real problem with the run defense numbers. That's the Packers' best defense to both attack at the LOS and simultaneously protect against big plays, which is a central tenet of Capers' philosophy going back to the advent of the zone blitz.

Even in the last game against the Bears, most of Forte's yards came on 2 plays where Walden failed to hold the edge as I recall. Other than that he was pretty much shut down and it seems as if Walden has learned from those plays.

The 3-3 d I think refers to the nickel package where Walden's been playing off the LOS in the middle spying on the QB. It's not really a 3-3 unless you consider one of the OLB's playing on the LOS as a d-lineman.

[MichiganPackerFan]

What Waldo's talking about is why I think Raji is the Defensive MVP. His presence inside enables Dom to go mostly nickel without getting gashed by opposing running games. That keeps Woodson inside where he is most effective and dangerous.

I think that Raji had every bit the great season that Matthews did, with more consistency.

I'm still concerned about defending the mid level passing game. CHI has a good TE and the quick passing game killed us v AZ last year. How do they plan to stop the TE? It's not like any of our LB's play the pass very well. It seems to me QB pressure is the only way to disrupt it.

and finally: WALDO!!!!!

[Packers4Glory]

This will be interesting to see how chicago tries to utilize Olsen. he has 10 catches vs GB for 93 yards this yr. thats almost 25% of his receptions on the season. He's not a big part of their offense even tho he is their best receiver. However everyone knows GB hasn't been that great at stopping the TE this yr. I was surprised we held Tony Gonzalez as he was my big concern after stopping Tuner. Its going to be one of those things to look at as the game progresses. I wonder if we'll see a lot of Woodson on him and letting T-will and Shields cover their burners Knox and Hester?

[mraynrand]

One of the reasons the Packers are so good in the Nickel is that Woodson can tackle, and you rarely - if ever - see a lineman, TE, or FB lay a finger on him for a block. Woodson often has a completely free path to the ball carrier if he wants it and if he 'risks' it. If I were Chicago, I probably would spend some time figuring out how to block Woodson on run plays.

[sharpe1027]

I think that Raji had every bit the great season that Matthews did, with more consistency.

I'm still concerned about defending the mid level passing game. CHI has a good TE and the quick passing game killed us v AZ last year. How do they plan to stop the TE? It's not like any of our LB's play the pass very well. It seems to me QB pressure is the only way to disrupt it.

and finally: WALDO!!!!!

Another way to disrupt their mid level passing game is to have Cutler back there. I have also read that Chicago has gone away from the deeper drops and intermediate-to-long passing game that goes with it because their OL couldn't hold up that long.

Regarding the defense, I would imagine that the way we lineup really makes it difficult on opposing offenses. Normally an offense can call a play (in the huddle or audible) based upon what package the other team is in. Not so much with the Packers, they can take the same lineup and come out with completely different schemes. Dom has taken full advantage of having a DB that can lineup and be an effective LB (both for blitzes and run support) while still being good in coverage. Much of this is made possible because of our huge/powerful DL that allows them to go with only three, two or even one DL and still not get run on. It doesn't hurt that Hawk has been solid at standing up blockers to free up others to make plays.

I also love how our Defense looks like they are all just randomly wandering about right up until the ball is snapped. I've also seen them show a blitz, but if the QB doesn't snap the ball and makes an audible, the Defense seems to be making a counter audible. All of this and very few breakdowns. That's says a lot about both the coaching and the players

[Brandon494]

I think that Raji had every bit the great season that Matthews did, with more consistency.

I'm still concerned about defending the mid level passing game. CHI has a good TE and the quick passing game killed us v AZ last year. How do they plan to stop the TE? It's not like any of our LB's play the pass very well. It seems to me QB pressure is the only way to disrupt it.

and finally: WALDO!!!!!

We just played against Brent Celek and Tony Gonzalez and your worried about Greg Olsen beating us?