Quote Originally Posted by guiness
I'm pretty sure it was you, and your second statement makes me think so even more.

The discussion was about how players wanted full disclosure, and you said you'd been involved in negotiations, and no one would ever think of asking a private business to reveal it's books.
Quote Originally Posted by Patler View Post
I asked a fairly simple question at that time: how many people worked for privately owned businesses, and if they new exactly how much the private owners made. But I don't see how that makes me defensive, or shows me to be struggling with this issue. In fact, I think I saw through the players position quite clearly.

My point at the time was that the players were demanding detail that they weren't likely to get, nor did I think they were entitled to it. Some information, sure; but their own accountants auditing (for want of a better description) the teams' books? No way. If that had been a starting point, no problem. But, they never backed off it. Reportedly, they didn't even look at what WAS offered by the owners to see if it helped bridge the gap at all. Then they even seemed to up the demand at the last minute. All this leads me to believe they never had an interest in settling short of de-certification and the inevitable lawsuit.

During a negotiation it is necessary to try and determine what the other side is really after if they won't tell you. The union wants something, but I'm not sure what it is. It's not the teams' books. That's the front. It's something more important to them than that. Perhaps getting rid of the various franchise tags and RFA designations for a true free agency after a brief rookie contract. Perhaps abolishing the salary cap. Perhaps all of the above. Those may have changed during a negotiated settlement, but would likely have continued in some form or another. The real threat of an antitrust lawsuit could hasten those changes.

Somewhere in that hodgepodge is the real target of the NFLPA. Its not the teams books and the few million $/team that might be in dispute. It's power and control.

Damn the quoting system on this board.

I tried to answer both of your questions, but the reply about you being defensive got nested in the quote box. I'm usually pretty good about previewing my posts, but it was late and I was tired

Your comment about how many people knew exactly how much their private owners made was what I meant about you drawing parallels to 'regular' businesses. The answer is no, I haven't seen audited books of my employers, but that has nothing to do with what is going on here.

I actually have seen the 'full' books of a company (albeit not audited, AFAIK) when the company I was working for hit some dire straights, and asked everyone to take a pay cut, as well as soliciting loans from us.