Does The End Justify The Means?

[Old School]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?

My frame of reference for thinking about thiss is two similar baseball plays.

Last year, Alex Ridriguiz of the Yankees dramatically feigned being hit by a pitch when replay showed the ball hit the knob of his bat. He was awarded first base. When questioned after the game, Alex without hesitation said, "Whatever it takes to win".

Last week Darwin Barney of the Cubs was hit by a pitch. The ball rolled into fair territory, and the catcher picked it up and tagged Barney. The ump ruled the ball hit Barney's bat and called him out. When Barney was asked why he didn't put on a big act because replay showed he was hit, he replied, "I didn't want to disrespect the game."

Back to football; It seems to me that there needs to be a rule that would make it unprofitable for a player to fake an injury in a goal line situation.
1. Allow only that player to be substituted for?
2. Require the player to remain out of the game for the rest of that series or more?
3. Charge a timeout like after the two minute warning?
4. See to it the player has a valid reason to leave the game with an injury when he returns? ( I remember Super Bowl I and how the Packers handled Fred Williamson's cheap shot on Boyd Dowler.)
5. Do nothing because cheating to get ahead is acceptable in our society?
What do the rest of you think?

[MadScientist]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?

My frame of reference for thinking about thiss is two similar baseball plays.

Last year, Alex Ridriguiz of the Yankees dramatically feigned being hit by a pitch when replay showed the ball hit the knob of his bat. He was awarded first base. When questioned after the game, Alex without hesitation said, "Whatever it takes to win".

Last week Darwin Barney of the Cubs was hit by a pitch. The ball rolled into fair territory, and the catcher picked it up and tagged Barney. The ump ruled the ball hit Barney's bat and called him out. When Barney was asked why he didn't put on a big act because replay showed he was hit, he replied, "I didn't want to disrespect the game."

Back to football; It seems to me that there needs to be a rule that would make it unprofitable for a player to fake an injury in a goal line situation.
1. Allow only that player to be substituted for?
2. Require the player to remain out of the game for the rest of that series or more?
3. Charge a timeout like after the two minute warning?
4. See to it the player has a valid reason to leave the game with an injury when he returns? ( I remember Super Bowl I and how the Packers handled Fred Williamson's cheap shot on Boyd Dowler.)
5. Do nothing because cheating to get ahead is acceptable in our society?
What do the rest of you think?

Rodriguez is a jerk, Barney was a fool (unless the ball hit is hand while attempting a swing, in which case you need to know the special rules).

As for your list, I would add #1 (with the caveat that if the offense substitutes, the defense can as well) and #2 (specifically stated that the player can't return until there is a change of possession). #3 is too harsh for legit injuries, and you can't prove otherwise. With the rash of injuries these days, nobody would have TO's left at the end of the game. 4 is a judgment call that is too much burden to place on the refs.

[sharpe1027]

1) If your team has an injury on defense, you should not be allowed to make an additional substitution (other than the injured player) unless the offense also substitutes players or you call a timeout.

2) Any injury that results in a stoppage of play must be reviewed by an league/independent doctor before being allowed to return to the field of play. This would mean that the team and player know they will be working with someone outside of the organization. It would slow down the process and result in players being kept out longer while they wait on this review.

[pbmax]

Wasn't that Jeter who went to first after the ball might have grazed him?

Extension of rule that costs the team a timeout for injury is fine by me. But teams have been pulling this since the 1950's (recorded and admitted by a Notre Dame player), so its gong to continue.

As for the ethics, some believe their personal code will not allow such behavior, but in a team over all atmosphere like football, those players will not constitute the majority of the rosters. Winning is everything after all.

Edit: Last year, at least on this one occasion, it was Jeter: http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/t...jeter_adm.html

[mraynrand]

I think every injury play should be extensively reviewed in the booth

[Old School]

PB-Thanx for the correction. I misremembered. I don't follow the American League.

Mad -Barney didn't swing. He was backing up. Whether or not he is a fool once again depends on personal values.

[run pMc]

Oh, I think Goodell and Co. will eventually sort this out and decide to levy fines for faking injuries.
That's kind of his way of handling things...a league wide memo and arbitrary issuance of fines.

Even with a stoppage, I think in the heart of the game it's hard to determine if an injury is real or not. A "false positive" would be insulting to the player, the player's family, and the team...not to mention cause an outcry by fans and conspiracy theorists alike.

The faked injury by the Giants was pretty blatant and should be mentioned to teams/players. It's too simple of a way to derail a no-huddle offense.

Also -- I tend to fall into the camp that if you disrespect the game, the game (and its fans) will disrespect you. ARod might be a HoF worthy baseball talent, but he's also a HoF jackass...he's earned that.

[mmmdk]

I say: let congress decide...let them be the mentors as they're the masters of collusion. Banana Republicans!

[red]

i hate the fact that it happens and i would love something to be done about it

but how?

say a guy goes down and says he has a leg cramp. trainer comes out, stretches him out for a few minutes, lets the team get a breather and regroup. then in a play or two the player comes back in. how in the world would it be possible to know if he really had a cramp or not?

[MadScientist]

i hate the fact that it happens and i would love something to be done about it

but how?

say a guy goes down and says he has a leg cramp. trainer comes out, stretches him out for a few minutes, lets the team get a breather and regroup. then in a play or two the player comes back in. how in the world would it be possible to know if he really had a cramp or not?

With the suggested changes, he would not be allowed to come back in until there was a possession change. That would be a reasonable price to pay for stopping the game. Nobody has to make any determinations, just follow the rules. It won't stop the fake injuries, just discourage them.

[mraynrand]

With the suggested changes, he would not be allowed to come back in until there was a possession change.

That's true only if he's a two-way player.

[pbmax]

That's true only if he's a two-way player.

Always the monkey in the wrench with you.

[channtheman]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

[red]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

i was thinking the same exact thing

[mmmdk]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

...so you're saying Bert can come back?

[pbmax]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

Sure, but does the DC want to run the risk of a player who would not otherwise play to be in the for one down just to get a free timeout? He can't just go out there and fall down like he injured himself while jogging on the field.

Unless he's a former soccer player.

[sharpe1027]

Even if the rule required the faked injury player to stay out of the game until the next series, there is nothing that would stop a team from putting player number 45 on the gameday roster out there for a play and have him feign injury after 1 play. If he has to stay out for 1 series, who cares because he wouldn't play anyway?

I doubt that anyone would play scrub players "just in case" they need to fake an injury. It is more likely that the guy they want to sub would fake the injury (e.g., if they are in nickel and need another LBer, than the 3rd DB magically gets hurt and a LBer comes in....)

[AtlPackFan]

I think every injury play should be extensively reviewed in the booth

...and if the replay booth decides the player was faking an injury, allow the other team to beat the player until he IS injured!

[Smeefers]

In last night's Rams/Giants game, the Giants obviously feigned injury to slow down the Rams no huddle offense and get their goal line package into the game. There is no way the officials could have made the judgement to penalize the Giants despite the fact there was a lot of laughing on the Giant's bench. This was a critical game situation that could have changed the direction, and possibly the outcome of the game. What if this had been a playoff or Super Bowl game?

My frame of reference for thinking about thiss is two similar baseball plays.

Last year, Alex Ridriguiz of the Yankees dramatically feigned being hit by a pitch when replay showed the ball hit the knob of his bat. He was awarded first base. When questioned after the game, Alex without hesitation said, "Whatever it takes to win".

Last week Darwin Barney of the Cubs was hit by a pitch. The ball rolled into fair territory, and the catcher picked it up and tagged Barney. The ump ruled the ball hit Barney's bat and called him out. When Barney was asked why he didn't put on a big act because replay showed he was hit, he replied, "I didn't want to disrespect the game."

Back to football; It seems to me that there needs to be a rule that would make it unprofitable for a player to fake an injury in a goal line situation.
1. Allow only that player to be substituted for?
2. Require the player to remain out of the game for the rest of that series or more?
3. Charge a timeout like after the two minute warning?
4. See to it the player has a valid reason to leave the game with an injury when he returns? ( I remember Super Bowl I and how the Packers handled Fred Williamson's cheap shot on Boyd Dowler.)
5. Do nothing because cheating to get ahead is acceptable in our society?
What do the rest of you think?

You know what I was saying to myself just the other day? Man I wish Football had more rules. There is positively not enough rules in football and every time they add new ones it adds to the game, not takes away from it.

[Guiness]

I doubt that anyone would play scrub players "just in case" they need to fake an injury. It is more likely that the guy they want to sub would fake the injury (e.g., if they are in nickel and need another LBer, than the 3rd DB magically gets hurt and a LBer comes in....)

Exactly. Do you want that guy out there, even for one play?

MM sees a scrub LB come in that that is going to take a fall in case they need it, and you can be sure they're going to be running the next play right at him!