Greg Williams - Bounty Audio

[Patler]

Probably the most damning thing in the speech is only there if you see the video. When talking about hitting Smith in the chin, he said; "I've got the first one, I've got the first one" while rubbing his thumb on his index finger, the symbol for being paid. This was after telling everyone there was no bounty program, and after being specifically told to stop if there was one.

Saying to "find out" about a receivers concussion in the first two series sure won't win him any fans in the league office.
Neither will references to taking out Crabtree's ACL.

[Fritz]

The line that's crossed here is a tangible. There was a monetary reward for the result. The result of a guy leaving the game due to injury from the hit. That's a big big difference then a lot of Win One for the Gipper bullshit. Money actually changed hands from this as I understand it. The guy should not see an NFL sideline ever again.

Win one for the Gipper bullshit? In Smeefers's case, it sounds more like "Make mommy puke for the Gipper!"

[woodbuck27]

I have a problem with it. Just because the refs can't see everything, that doesn't make it right. Just because some people are scumbags that doesn't make it right.

I'm not going to rob your house just because the police don't always catch robbers and because other people rob houses. Why, because it is a scumbag move and wrong.

When I watch the way the Saints players ...demonstrating superior listening skills RE: Greg Williams 'Gestapo address/speech' to his defense, the night before that playoff game. Manhandle the 49er offensive players.

It was difficult for me NOT to imagine the game officials were missing (again).

[woodbuck27]

Probably the most damning thing in the speech is only there if you see the video. When talking about hitting Smith in the chin, he said; "I've got the first one, I've got the first one" while rubbing his thumb on his index finger, the symbol for being paid. This was after telling everyone there was no bounty program, and after being specifically told to stop if there was one.

Saying to "find out" about a receivers concussion in the first two series sure won't win him any fans in the league office.
Neither will references to taking out Crabtree's ACL.

Patler the whole pre-game address was absolutely appalling.

My lady went one step better. Mae remarked:

"Eddie ..you know what is actually worse than 'Greg Williams speech'. It's that his players actually bought into it; went into the game and tried their best to deliver on what Greg Williams demanded in his address. " Mae

Hearing that speech made me feel weird. I have never heard anything that bad in the 50 plus years I've followed Pro Sports. I cannot even imagine Greg Williams getting to where he could make suc an ugly/evil speech.


These Saint defensive players are members of the NFLPA and ' brothers ' with the San Francisco 49er's offensive players. How on earth could they possibly stoop to the mentality level to actually try to hurt brothers? Harm fellow Pro's??

In CANADA and in 'the sense of brotherhood' and Unions or Associations.that actual behaviour is absolutely incomprehensible...barbaric.

Mae knows little about football but enought to know this whole issue sucks and 'the players as the bottom line' need to suffer a harsh penalty. I can hear the argument now.

Those.... It's like war arguments and the football players are like soldiers and so must obey orders.

Anyone going there needs a serious reality check.

The NFL is about football NOT barbaric physical domination with empasis on serious opponent injury; destroying career and lives.

[sheepshead]

Win one for the Gipper bullshit? In Smeefers's case, it sounds more like "Make mommy puke for the Gipper!"

The point is, its all words, nothing more. A bounty is entirely different.

[sharpe1027]

Your analogy is wrong. It's more like leaving your windows and doors open with a sign outside that reads "lots of expensive stuff inside, will be gone from 9-5 every day. No Alarm system and neighbors hate me!" Then being surprised when your stuff is gone. Playing injured is STUPID and if a player gets cranked for it, then it's his own fault. Don't act like this game is some playground game. Guys always snicker and talk around what goes on under the pile. No one is unaware of the risks that go into playing.

I don't understand your logic. Are you saying that robbing someones house is not a scumbag move and wrong?

[woodbuck27]

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/greej3

Chris Carter calls for lifetime ban on Gregg Williams:

“I believe that Gregg Williams, he shouldn’t be able to coach football any more, and the reason why is because we have given him our best athletes. We have given him the best athletes to coach in the NFL for the last 16 years and he has taught them the worst tactics that you can teach a football player. So, I believe the only penalty that would suffice for this type of crime: he shouldn’t be able to coach any more. It is a privilege for us to be able to play football, and a privilege to play in the NFL, and he has taken the last 15, 16 years of his career, and he has decided to do that with it. I believe that Roger Goodell, his penalty should be: he shouldn’t be able to coach in the NFL any more.” Chris Carter

[gbgary]

now THAT was something else.

[pbmax]

Patler the whole pre-game address was absolutely appalling.

snip

The NFL is about football NOT barbaric physical domination with empasis on serious opponent injury; destroying career and lives.

Woodbuck, have you ever seen the hit that Chuck Bednarik used to wipe out Frank Gifford? How about Jack Tatum wiping out Darryl Stingley? There are entire highlight packages devoted to these kinds of plays and bounties have been around long before now. Williams might have organized it to a new level, but there is nothing new here. For years crack back and cut blocks were legal in line and both could destroy knees. Chuck Cecil built a career out of being pedestrian safety who acted like a receiver seeking missile whenever possible, then posed for photos with the resulting bloody nose his own facemask gave him when he led with his head.

Players grab testicles in fumble piles and there is a reason coaches are loathe to disclose injuries. Players think Goodell is trying to change the sport not because they are now more barbaric, but because they have coaches that throughout their lives that have taught this kind of behavior. Many players resist this. But many do not.

The Saints got manhandled in that 49er playoff game. If they did go out to execute Williams specific instructions, they failed. Outside of the Vikings game and specifically the hits on Favre, there are very few instances of the Saints taking this approach on the field. Their penalties for these seasons were not out of line with other performances.

Ironically, one of the games I have seen mentioned where it could be interpreted they were playing beyond the normal bounds was the Opening Weekend versus the Packers, in the game where there was supposed to be a bounty on Rodgers. But the Packer writers seemed to dismiss that there was actual game evidence of such a plan. I do not remember any highly questionable hits. I still think the Lions tried to take Rodgers out in Detroit in 2010.

I wonder if players who are not found to have contributed sums to the bounties will see stiff suspensions or fines. The small number of on field incidents might help them.

[pbmax]

Probably the most damning thing in the speech is only there if you see the video. When talking about hitting Smith in the chin, he said; "I've got the first one, I've got the first one" while rubbing his thumb on his index finger, the symbol for being paid. This was after telling everyone there was no bounty program, and after being specifically told to stop if there was one.

Saying to "find out" about a receivers concussion in the first two series sure won't win him any fans in the league office.
Neither will references to taking out Crabtree's ACL.

There is a train of thought that the reason Williams isn't gone is that the NFL needs him to ferret out the behavior or perhaps in challenges to the penalties. I was surprised he was given an indefinite suspension with an option to reapply in one year. I expected his punishment to be guaranteed longer than Payton's.

If Williams did make that motion, then it would connect the bounties with this speech. I wonder of the League knew of the tape prior to now. There was an individual doing a sleep study with the Saints who was interviewed by Dan Patrick this week. He claimed he was interviewed by the League during their investigation and that one of the games they were most interested in was the Packers game in 2011. He claimed never to have heard mention of bounties, but his testimony seemed to hinge not only on what he heard but also his belief in Williams.

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, have you ever seen the hit that Chuck Bednarik used to wipe out Frank Gifford? How about Jack Tatum wiping out Darryl Stingley? There are entire highlight packages devoted to these kinds of plays and bounties have been around long before now. Williams might have organized it to a new level, but there is nothing new here. For years crack back and cut blocks were legal in line and both could destroy knees. Chuck Cecil built a career out of being pedestrian safety who acted like a receiver seeking missile whenever possible, then posed for photos with the resulting bloody nose his own facemask gave him when he led with his head.

Players grab testicles in fumble piles and there is a reason coaches are loathe to disclose injuries. Players think Goodell is trying to change the sport not because they are now more barbaric, but because they have coaches that throughout their lives that have taught this kind of behavior. Many players resist this. But many do not.

The Saints got manhandled in that 49er playoff game. If they did go out to execute Williams specific instructions, they failed. Outside of the Vikings game and specifically the hits on Favre, there are very few instances of the Saints taking this approach on the field. Their penalties for these seasons were not out of line with other performances.

Ironically, one of the games I have seen mentioned where it could be interpreted they were playing beyond the normal bounds was the Opening Weekend versus the Packers, in the game where there was supposed to be a bounty on Rodgers. But the Packer writers seemed to dismiss that there was actual game evidence of such a plan. I do not remember any highly questionable hits. I still think the Lions tried to take Rodgers out in Detroit in 2010.

I wonder if players who are not found to have contributed sums to the bounties will see stiff suspensions or fines. The small number of on field incidents might help them.

Of course you realize I'm criticle when it comes to anything 'even close to barbaric' and not just ' Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers ' but anyone that acts like a moron may indulge me in their wicked dance for awhile?

I've been watching football for 5 decades plus. I enjoy football above all pro sports and I love sports.
ie ...I'm excited today at the midway point of THE MASTERS. On top of the 'Leader Board' sits one .....Fred Couples. I'm wondering... will he fare better on Augusta"s Par 5's today and Easter Sunday than he did in a similiar spot and fell short not that long ago.

Watching sports is all about impressions. We watch this sport or game and Eurecka! Something magical happens and we might ie begin to really like that player and begin to follow that player.That's how I became a Green Bay Packer fan back in 1959. Football 'only meant' the Ottawa Rough Riders, Montreal Alouettes,Toronto Argo's, Winnepeg Blue Bombers to me.

Then I became aware of a fella named Y.A. Tittle. I became aware of a place called Green Bay, Wisconsoin. My baseball sports HERO was Henry 'Hank' Aaron. I like Eddie Matthews. Aaron and Matthews and Warren Spahn. I was a Milwaukee Brave fan and my loyalty to Aaron will never die.

Milwaukee Braves (Loyalty>>> Atlanta Braves)>>>Green Bay Packers (Loyalty 1959 >>> till I die)>>> Brett Favre (Loyalty)>>> Packer Forums (Packerrats LOYALTY) >>> Aaron Rodgers (LOYALTY).

The impressions I got of the NO Saints, and the ugly manner in which that Saints defense, on that day (NFC Championship Game - 2009 Season) performed Vs Brett Favre. Will certainly be etched in my mind forever. Etched how pbmax? It'll be forever etched in my mind as the most brutal combined effort to destroy a QB (Brett Favre) that I ever want to see again. I never want to see another NFL player suffer as Favre did so courageously that day. It was nothing short of brutal. I've paid attention to the NO Saints since.

I believe in karma. I know that BAD Guys finish last. Now we are observing'the Bad Guys' squirm. It looks so good on them.

Yes I watched NO Saints VS San Francisco 49ers this past playoffs. I watched with real interest. I'm inclined so. I saw the way the Saints defense played and again I wasn't impressed with how they took their man to the groung.This was a dirty team.This team is getting it's dues 'just what is demanded'of foul play.

The 'no Saints' players should get there's certainly and as well. I look for harsh penalty's on Saints defensive players. The NFL certainly has loads of ammunition and all it needs for a careful analysis of 'the dynamic outcome' of Greg Williams sicko ways. The way the SAINT players actually delivered such cheap shots.

Now having stressed my position.

I find it's somewhat ironic as a Packer fan (member of Packerrats) that one of those Saints players from that infamous NFC Championship game Vs the Minnesota Vikings has been signed as a Green Bay Packer. I can observe this players ability to squirm. I will see how this players hateful to moronic manner back then, will come forward to see his possible due punishment.

Re: that player.

a) I can wonder why? the Green Bay Packers have to be a part of that punishment?

b) Why would our GM sign him? Has this player 'really' cleaned up his act?

It's again (see Scott Wells) another wait and see that could have been simply... avoided.

GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Speaking of the 49ers, isn't their D coordinator Foge Fazio? And wasn't he the coordinator in Minnesota for a while? Was it his teams that always seemed to be taking cheap shots at players in the pile during Packer games? And this caused Rivera and Winters to run down the field to "clean off" the pile during or after a tackle? I seem to remember him as one of a few coordinators who encouraged some extra-curricular stuff, but my memory on it is fuzzy.

The other coach I know that everyone complains about (outside of Alex Gibbs and cut blocks) is John Teerlinck.

[Pugger]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...liams-go-rogue

[woodbuck27]

Woodbuck, have you ever seen the hit that Chuck Bednarik used to wipe out Frank Gifford? How about Jack Tatum wiping out Darryl Stingley? There are entire highlight packages devoted to these kinds of plays and bounties have been around long before now. Williams might have organized it to a new level, but there is nothing new here. For years crack back and cut blocks were legal in line and both could destroy knees. Chuck Cecil built a career out of being pedestrian safety who acted like a receiver seeking missile whenever possible, then posed for photos with the resulting bloody nose his own facemask gave him when he led with his head.

Players grab testicles in fumble piles and there is a reason coaches are loathe to disclose injuries. Players think Goodell is trying to change the sport not because they are now more barbaric, but because they have coaches that throughout their lives that have taught this kind of behavior. Many players resist this. But many do not.

The Saints got manhandled in that 49er playoff game. If they did go out to execute Williams specific instructions, they failed. Outside of the Vikings game and specifically the hits on Favre, there are very few instances of the Saints taking this approach on the field. Their penalties for these seasons were not out of line with other performances.

Ironically, one of the games I have seen mentioned where it could be interpreted they were playing beyond the normal bounds was the Opening Weekend versus the Packers, in the game where there was supposed to be a bounty on Rodgers. But the Packer writers seemed to dismiss that there was actual game evidence of such a plan. I do not remember any highly questionable hits. I still think the Lions tried to take Rodgers out in Detroit in 2010.

I wonder if players who are not found to have contributed sums to the bounties will see stiff suspensions or fines. The small number of on field incidents might help them.

and YES ..... this too pbmax:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...liams-go-rogue

and RE: Chuck Cecil.I posted on the feroscity of this Packer player just this week I believe. I also posted that Vince Lombardi would have gone ballistic if any of his defensive players played it over the top dirty. I watched Lombardi's entire career as OUR Legendary HC. No HC ever demanded as much from his players and loved the game of football more.

The game of football and 'sportsmanship' trumps winning football games at all cost.

I will always remember this: "Favre is down and rolling on his back now."

That was sadly pathetic and a blemish on the NFL until it is clearly, totally and severely dealt with:

To ensure this sort of not acceptable unsportsmanship must be hugely penalized as a deterrent is common sense pbmax. As Packer fans we might understand that in certain real terms. The question I would ask myself if I was NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is:

RE: Anthony Hargrove and the $25 K$ for his over enthusiastic and moronic reaction to the state (he as a NO Saint) inflicted on Brett Favre.

Was that fine enough now that Goodell has a clearer picture after a concerted effort to coverup 'the Bounty Program'?

Does that action against 'our own' Anthony Hargrove (Ohh Boy !) exempt him from further penalty?

I'm 'only' left to assume that Green Bay Packer GM Ted Thompson thought that would be the case. That Anthony Hargrove would suffer no further action. Maybe Ted Thompson hasn't been paying attention?

I'm at such a disadvantage as 'just' a Packer fan to understand Ted Thompson. As a human being I'm well aware that even Ted Thompson will error.

GO Ted Thompson>>> GO PACKERS !

[pbmax]

Someone's always recording it seems

Most wounds are, indeed, self inflicted.

[Fritz]

"In CANADA and in 'the sense of brotherhood' and Unions or Associations.that actual behaviour is absolutely incomprehensible...barbaric."

I wonder if this is why the CFL is not as popular as the NFL?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Chris Carter calls for lifetime ban on Gregg Williams:

[I] “I believe that Gregg Williams, he shouldn’t be able to coach football any more, and the reason why is because we have given him our best athletes. We have given him the best athletes to coach in the NFL for the last 16 years and he has taught them the worst tactics that you can teach a football player.

Nah. If Michael Vick can be rehabilitated, so can Gregg Williams. Let him look for a job after a year on the outside looking in. Let some team hire him as a linebackers coach, and he can start anew. I expect he will see the error of his ways after such a thorough public shaming. His behavior was indefensible and has embarassed himself and his family.

[pbmax]

and YES ..... this too pbmax:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-networ...liams-go-rogue

and RE: Chuck Cecil.I posted on the feroscity of this Packer player just this week I believe. I also posted that Vince Lombardi would have gone ballistic if any of his defensive players played it over the top dirty. I watched Lombardi's entire career as OUR Legendary HC. No HC ever demanded as much from his players and loved the game of football more.

The game of football and 'sportsmanship' trumps winning football games at all cost.

This thing to ensure this sort of not acceptable unsportsmanship must be hugely penalized as a deterrent is common sense pbmax. As Packer fans we might understand that in certain real terms. The question I would ask myself if I was NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell is:

RE: Anthony Hargrove and the $25 K$ for his over enthusiastic and moronic reaction to the state (he as a NO Saint) inflicted on Brett Favre.

Was that fine enough now that Goodell has a clearer picture after a concerted effort to coverup 'the Bounty Program'?

Does that action against 'our own' Anthony Hargrove exempt him from further penalty?

I'm 'only' left to assume that Green Bay Packer GM Ted Thompson thought that would be the case. That Anthony Hargrove would suffer no further action. Maybe Ted Thompson hasn't been paying attention?

I'm at such a disadvantage as 'just' a Packer fan to understand Ted Thompson. As a human being I'm well aware that even Ted Thompson will error.

GO Ted Thompson>>> GO PACKERS !

I could be missing the report, but Hargrove was fined $5,000 for lifting and driving a ball carrier into the ground versus the Vikings. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...en-more-fines/

I simply get the feeling woodbuck that you are whistling past the graveyard on this. That you do not see the connection between football, coaching, players and this kind of organized violence. My argument is not about whether it is correct or morally acceptable to engage in these practices. The point is that Gregg Williams comes from a long line of coaches and players who have been celebrated and rewarded for this kind of behavior. Stopping it will be a good thing. To lay it all at the feet of Gregg Williams or the Saints is naive.

One of Lombardi's players, as Head Coach, put a player into his lineup for the Packers with a hit list drawn up on his towel. He proceeded to finish what was left of Jim McMahon's career. McMahon had been previously injured. Martin simply made it worse.

Reggie White admitted to intentionally dropping his weight on Brett Favre in such a way (while pinning his arm) as to damage his shoulder and render him ineffective.

Williams is guilty of turning the violence into an organized, pay for gratuitous hits scheme. The rest of football is guilty of tolerating this behavior for decades.

[woodbuck27]

"In CANADA and in 'the sense of brotherhood' and Unions or Associations.that actual behaviour is absolutely incomprehensible...barbaric."

I wonder if this is why the CFL is not as popular as the NFL?

Fritz.The CFL is more popular in Canada then the NFL.

Why do you imagine that the NFL game is more watched in my country? What's your source? Have you had the privalege of living in Canada?

Canadians LOVE the CFL. Canadians are famous for their LOTALTY and GREAT looks.

a) The CFL is far more exciting to watch. There are many more 'BIG PLAYS' because the greatest talent lands in the NFL making the canadian game of football more wide open thus ecciting. Outcomes are less predictable with one team leading by 10-14 points or more entering the fourth quarter.

b) The product on the field is superior in terms of 'the game' itself. The officiating in the CFL is considered superior more professional then we have to put up with 'as NFL fans' in an all blunders cancel one another out ... hope.

c) The greatest party in Canada is the week of the Grey Cup. The Grey Cup is a BIG WEEK in CANADA; while 'the Super Bowl' is a big day for Canadians.

I could go on with more.

[pbmax]

Speaking of Hargrove, the Lions and Schwartz were trying to sign him after his 2009 season. And Jim Washburn (former Fisher/Williams/Schwatz) disciple and Titan D line coach was in Philly the year he was signed there.