The Skinbasket Weighs in on New Redskins Nicknames

[Freak Out]

A Roc.

[cheesner]

my vote

[woodbuck27]

(re: Pollin) Yeah, it was long ago I had to look up the particulars. In fact, that story seems almost too pat, but I couldn't find an account contrary to those facts. Who knows, he might have needed to put fannies in the seats and thought it would help. I just don't remember a campaign over it.

I don't have much patience for legal means to force the Redskins nickname to change*, but I am equally impatient with people who try to dodge that the Redskins name is a slur. Its just an excuse to make the fans feel better, but its a slur none-the-less. Also, while Skinbasket clone feels better that his stadium doesn't do the chop or have a Native American in full dress roaming the sideline, he should take time to mention the helmet logo.

Opponents just ought to play the long game and continually remind fans that they are celebrating a racial slur.

A better question is the Warriors nickname. That one makes the most sense.

*Great moment in judicial non-understanding over this issue. In a lawsuit over the Redskin nickname that was ultimately lost by the plaintiffs, the ruling judge held as fact that it could not be proven that a plurality or majority of Indigenous People in the area felt disrespected over the name. He concluded that such information was a practical impossibility and that the polling data that the plaintiff had submitted was just a poll of certain people and couldn't possibly, correctly convey the sentiment of the whole population.

"*Great moment in judicial non-understanding over this issue. In a lawsuit over the Redskin nickname that was ultimately lost by the plaintiffs, the ruling judge held as fact that it could not be proven that a plurality or majority of Indigenous People in the area felt disrespected over the name. He concluded that such information was a practical impossibility and that the polling data that the plaintiff had submitted was just a poll of certain people and couldn't possibly, correctly convey the sentiment of the whole population." pbmax

I'm guessing that that particular judge wasn't a political appointment. That he was generally disinterested and ignorant of politics.

[red]

i really do think they should go for a less offensive name

maybe the "silly negros"?

[sooner6600]

Red:

Why not Foreskins.

This woulld be in keeping with GLBT comunity and be soooooo inclusive.

Why cant we get along?

Thoughts?

[CaptainD]

USFL had it right >>>> Washington Federals

[MadtownPacker]

This is a great topic so let's keep politics out of the thread so it doesn't get moved.

[swede]

Red:

Why not Foreskins.

Foreskin joke:

A mohel walks into leatherworker's shop and dumps a sack of foreskins onto the counter. He says to the man, "I've saved these for twenty years. Make me something nice with them. I'll be back in a week."

The week passes and the mohel returns. The leatherworker pushes a beautiful coin purse across the counter and says, "This is some of my best work."

"Whaat?" says the mohel, "I give you a whole sack of foreskins and this is all I get? It's so small!"

"Rub it," said the leatherworker, "it turns into a suitcase."

[Pugger]

But your previous post seems to suggest that the two critical elements of a derogatory symbol have to be 1) that it represents a (presumably oppressed) minority, and 2) that the symbol actually has to be viewed as offensive by the purportedly offended party. Which helps explain the reality that the Seminoles like being represented by a college team.

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

[woodbuck27]

This is a great topic so let's keep politics out of the thread so it doesn't get moved.

I felt this was coming. It's very slow right now.

[Smeefers]

As for the Fightin' Whiteys and their shirts, the quote covers all the relevant differences. The Whitey are the majority and some/most in the area feel no particular compunction about the name being used by a minority group for profit. Its benign enough to, literally, buy into. Also, while Whitey might very well be used in a derogatory sense, there are multiple positive examples of it. Unless you are describing a potato, its not really an analogue for Redskins.

I doubt the same reaction would be had if that team was named the Fightin' Hibes or Fightin' Kikes.

The Redskins are not about to hand over a portion of ownership to Indigenous Americans nor are they currently sharing royalties over their trademarks.

Skinbasket Clone may feel that no disrespect intended washes his hands clean, but he is only one end of the communication. In a commercial enterprise, the intent of a consumer is pretty irrelevant.

I disagree with your analogy to the fightin hibes or kikes.

It would more be like the fighting tanskins or the whiteskins or the blackskins

It's nowhere near something like the fighting n<censored>rskins.

[pbmax]

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

Yes. I wonder what the difference here is between the Seminoles and the Fighting Sioux of North Dakota. At one point, they school had at least a business relationship with the tribe and sanction with their arena or perhaps a sponsorship for a gate. But apparently something was different here than in Florida because they are being forced to change (last I heard) and the Seminoles are not.

[Fritz]

Yes, the Seminole Tribe of Florida officially sanctions the use of the Seminole as Florida State University’s nickname and of Osceola as FSU's symbol. Max Osceola, the chief and general council president of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, has stated that he regards it as an “honor” to be associated with the university. The university has a student wear attire approved by the Tribe to come out on a horse with a flaming spear before each home game. Maybe if the Redskins approach a local tribe and do likewise - change their name to a particular tribe (and all other institutions that want to use a Native American symbol) they can put an end to this controversy.

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

[pbmax]

I disagree with your analogy to the fightin hibes or kikes.

It would more be like the fighting tanskins or the whiteskins or the blackskins

It's nowhere near something like the fighting n<censored>rskins.

Perhaps not as flammable as the fightin' n<censored>skins, but I think it has a history of derogatory usage beyond a simple comparable of color of skin. Yellow man, maybe, but I think closer to chink. The redskin usage is uncommon enough today that it doesn't seem at all to rise to the level of the n-word*, but I think its history is more bleak than recently memory has it. Having not done any reading on it beyond this topic, probably makes me unqualified to judge a comparison between the two.

If they approached the tribes, I wonder if any of them would take them up on some kind of offer. The Seminoles were mentioned earlier, but redskin is general enough I am not sure any tribe would want to touch it.


* At some point I will be adult enough to simply type n-word out correctly like I did chink, but something always holds me back. I think I fear Richard Pryor (or maybe Michael Richards) yelling at me from the stage.

[pbmax]

Maybe they could be the Punchin' Potowatamis.

Or the Red Skin Baskets.

They would never do it, but the Potato logo would be fantastic.

[pbmax]

I agree with the second, and as to the first, I meant what I gleaned to be your criteria, and what I think should be the criteria generally

I see. I think the generic names, like Warriors should be available. Specific, like Seminoles or Sioux, would need the consent of the group as they have legal standing in the US, minority or insult not withstanding.

Insults like Redmen, Redskins and Chief Wahoo should be left for the team and the public to debate. So online petitions and mock Twitter accounts.

[KYPack]

I heard a story that the DC organization has already copyrighted the name "Buckskins".

That way they could keep their copyright on the shortened "Skins" nickname.

[King Friday]

Just call them the Spooks...and let them have access to the NSA database to compile the most massive playbook in the history of football. Forget a binder, you'll need a couple warehouses.

[pbmax]

Just call them the Spooks...and let them have access to the NSA database to compile the most massive playbook in the history of football. Forget a binder, you'll need a couple warehouses.

Desk Jockeys or Bureaucrat No. 5

[mraynrand]

I see. I think the generic names, like Warriors should be available.

I recall Marquette changing their name. I also remember back in the day, you would go to the game and a college kid would come out at halftime and do an authentic Indian dance. The thing was legit, but I guess it aroused the ire of the sensitive types. Ironic thing was that just a generation later I recall my kindergarten kid (In Madison, no less) going to an authentic Indian dance celebrating Native American Heritage and it was almost exactly the same thing, except that it was promoted for a week on NPR prior to the field trip. I guess if it's in the name of Capitalism it's evil and demeaning, but in the name of celebrating diversity, it's great. Context, context...

Specific, like Seminoles or Sioux, would need the consent of the group as they have legal standing in the US, minority or insult not withstanding.

Insults like Redmen, Redskins and Chief Wahoo should be left for the team and the public to debate. So online petitions and mock Twitter accounts.

that's pretty good parsing and it makes sense