Bad locker room in Miami?

[Bossman641]

Does anyone remember any of this from last year during the Dolphin's Hard Knocks?

I watched it and I don't remember anything really.

Just glancing over their roster, trying to figure out who's been picking on Martin. My money is on Incognito and Pouncey.

[Tony Oday]

im not one for soft behavior but I think you have it partly right. These ARE the kind of adults being raised. To act like fucking children, to look down upon someone for being "smart" or for not being "hard". Reality is people don't know how to act right and this is one of those cases IMO. The world is full of wannabe thugs who think lowering yourself to shit is cool. Seems to be rampant among poor folk as I have personally seen.

Thanks for pointing out the other side. Not only are we raising whimps that cant take it we are also raising whimps that need a group to pick on an individual.

[Smidgeon]

Maybe I'm taking this conversation too seriously, but it's hard for me not to take bullying seriously. I was the victim of vicious bullying in school for almost an entire decade and had parents who were too busy with their own issues to teach a shy kid to stand up for himself. Without those tools and not being the kind of kid who retaliated (I believed even then that everyone you meet should be treated with respect and good will), I entered a very dark period in my life where my fondest thoughts were of suicide. It took me another fifteen years to clean up that messy, destructive cycle of despair.

Now, looking back, I can easily say that my parents failed by not giving me the tools to protect myself, but the blame lies solely on the shoulders of the bullies. Anyone who feels the need to stand taller by putting someone else down, especially the easy targets, don't deserve anything except the harshest penalties. There is zero justification for that. I don't care how much anyone is making, what their social status is, what their skills are, what they look like, or anything. Nobody should ever have to be bullied. Ever.

So, Tony, would you mind explaining why people who aren't good at taking bullying or standing up to bullies are "wimps"? It seems to me that assessment blames the victim and not the perpetrator (be it the parents who didn't equip a child or the bullies for being bullies).

[KYPack]

I watched it and I don't remember anything really.

Just glancing over their roster, trying to figure out who's been picking on Martin. My money is on Incognito and Pouncey.

Yeah, Big Richie is a major asshole.

The only thing I remember from that Hard Knocks was Joe Philbin firing Chad Johnson.

Seemed like Joe was in control during that deal.

[pbmax]

To make $4.8 million dollars it would take me, in todays money, a shade under 38 years, I would have no problem doing this for his 4 years and then retire. Call me a whore I dont care I am in business to pay for my son, wife and myself, it is about the money.

Well, you may have hit upon a key point. Two of them, actually.

He has already pocketed 1 and 1/2 year's salary and his signing bonus (nearly $2 million). And he went to a good school, is probably pretty bright and has good prospects with his parents occupations and connections. So, by your financial calculations, he is already ahead enough to tell the Dolphins and the problematic players to get stuffed.

He doesn't need it.

[Tony Oday]

Maybe I'm taking this conversation too seriously, but it's hard for me not to take bullying seriously. I was the victim of vicious bullying in school for almost an entire decade and had parents who were too busy with their own issues to teach a shy kid to stand up for himself. Without those tools and not being the kind of kid who retaliated (I believed even then that everyone you meet should be treated with respect and good will), I entered a very dark period in my life where my fondest thoughts were of suicide. It took me another fifteen years to clean up that messy, destructive cycle of despair.

Now, looking back, I can easily say that my parents failed by not giving me the tools to protect myself, but the blame lies solely on the shoulders of the bullies. Anyone who feels the need to stand taller by putting someone else down, especially the easy targets, don't deserve anything except the harshest penalties. There is zero justification for that. I don't care how much anyone is making, what their social status is, what their skills are, what they look like, or anything. Nobody should ever have to be bullied. Ever.

So, Tony, would you mind explaining why people who aren't good at taking bullying or standing up to bullies are "wimps"? It seems to me that assessment blames the victim and not the perpetrator (be it the parents who didn't equip a child or the bullies for being bullies).

Were you a 24 year old that was 6-2 310? sorry no. I am sorry you were bullied I can imagine that sucks and if it gave you suicidal thoughts I am really glad you did not follow through. Your parents, teachers and people in authority when you were a minor failed you. This guy, though PB makes a point in the post below, is getting "picked" on in a locker room, ever been in one? It happens all the time. I hope we find out what actually happened because it has a great possibibility to change my mind but what facts we have now I say buck up buttercup.

Now to your situation. I have a son and I know I have taught him and will continue to teach him to stand up for himself and others, what I am saying is we are raising kids that think they are #1 when they dont accomplish anything, tell them they are smart when they fail and move them along the system regardless of merit. My son is 7, he has 6 trophies. I was a three sport athlete from kindergarden on and I have 9 total trophies, a lot of ribbons, but what the hell, my son is even sick of getting participation trophies. We are not raising our children to thrive in adversity and this will have an adverse affect on our country in the coming decades.

[run pMc]

If Florio final comment is intended to out Martin, that would certainly suggest a reason for being persecuted. There also might be a mental illness issue.
There has to be a reason his own teammates -- and O-linemen tend to be a close-knit group -- would call him "The Big Weirdo" and haze him past his rookie year. Something's not right there.

Bahktiari has to buy tins of dip for his fellow linemen...I'd expect that ends after the season. I've also read (somewhere on JSO a few years back) that McCarthy doesn't tolerate much in the way of rookie hazing -- there are so many rookies and young players on the team, that's probably just as well.

Didn't Philbin lose a kid to suicide? Maybe he's not as on top of things as he oughta be. Either way, it doesn't look good for Miami coaches & players (incl. Martin) IMO.

[Cheesehead Craig]

If he was being picked on continuously over a long period of time by multiple people working together then I got no problem with what he did. Just don't play their game. Should he "tattle"? Then he looks like a whiner. Just sit and take it? Silence gives permission for that crap to continue. He did the right thing, he called it bullshit and he walked away.

Don't know the full story, but I don't see him as some pampered, over-trophied kid. Having wealthy parents or being smart doesn't automatically equate him with that. He made the NFL which isn't for those who only accomplish "participation ribbons". He is also a starter at a hard, important position.

[Pugger]

The more I think about it the more I agree with Hoosier. This young man might have been 'found out' that he is gay and I suspect athletic locker rooms are not too welcoming to people with that lifestyle. The only other plausible explanation is Martin has a mental disorder (bi-polar?) or anxiety issues and perceives playful antics as hostile.

[Guiness]

Apparently this did show up a bit on Hard Knocks, he earned the nickname during that show.

More to this, it remains to be seen if we'll hear any of it. A couple of players have come out and said there was nothing going on
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nathan-martin/
but there had to be something. Garner saying "it was just normal stuff" is a pretty stock statement that assholes in situations like this will say, "we were just fooling around". It also acknowledges that there was something going on.

What was the "something" though? Playing pro football has to be an insanely stressful way to live. I'm sure the players blow off some steam by fooling around and pulling pranks. Maybe he just couldn't handle the environment, or maybe he really was piled on.

A Stanford graduate with two Harvard educated parents certainly had to stand out in that environment. I found myself in a pretty bad situation a few years ago...making damn good money at a job I enjoyed. Problem was it was pretty isolated and I was the only Canadian in a crew of mostly Scotsman. They definitely ganged up on me, and there were some times I was close to walking away from it all and just taking my chances with what came up next.

[Guiness]

The more I think about it the more I agree with Hoosier. This young man might have been 'found out' that he is gay and I suspect athletic locker rooms are not too welcoming to people with that lifestyle. The only other plausible explanation is Martin has a mental disorder (bi-polar?) or anxiety issues and perceives playful antics as hostile.

Couple of really good guesses there.

I think you're all kinds of wrong in your view Oday. We don't know at all what was going on. Anyone can be broken, and we don't know how far this all went. This happened at a meal...did they mess with his food? There seems to be at least a few guys in on this, maybe they fucked with his sleeping too? Sleep deprivation is one of the quickest and easiest ways to mess someone up. If it is harassment (as opposed to thin skin) and there were enough of them doing it they could have made his life damn miserable.

[Guiness]

...

Cheesehead, that gif freaks me out. Thought it was funny at first, but watch the kids arms as he goes down, is that a fencing response???

[ThunderDan]

I completely disagree with Tony here.

This is a team. Teammates don't fuck with someone so bad that they walk off the team. That isn't hazing. I am OK with the rookies picking up the pads and getting tins of chew. Obviously the other players on the team were doing more than that.

This just makes me sick. You are supposed to work together. As a good friend of mine who was in the Marines and got a free trip to Iraq the first time around said, When you are in a firefight you need to know that everyone works as a team, one guy who isn't sharp can get us all killed. When those guys got together there was plenty of ribing and joking and fooling around, chasing skirts and drinking beers. But my buddy said they KNEW where the line was and would never cross it because if they had a dysfunctional team they could die.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Cheesehead, that gif freaks me out. Thought it was funny at first, but watch the kids arms as he goes down, is that a fencing response???

He starts a lunge but doesn't expect the balestra from the goat.

[Cheesehead Craig]

They should just cancel pro football in Florida. Miami, Tampa Bay, and Jacksonville are all just fucked up.

[KYPack]

Apparently this did show up a bit on Hard Knocks, he earned the nickname during that show.

More to this, it remains to be seen if we'll hear any of it. A couple of players have come out and said there was nothing going on
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...nathan-martin/
but there had to be something. Garner saying "it was just normal stuff" is a pretty stock statement that assholes in situations like this will say, "we were just fooling around". It also acknowledges that there was something going on.

What was the "something" though? Playing pro football has to be an insanely stressful way to live. I'm sure the players blow off some steam by fooling around and pulling pranks. Maybe he just couldn't handle the environment, or maybe he really was piled on.

A Stanford graduate with two Harvard educated parents certainly had to stand out in that environment. I found myself in a pretty bad situation a few years ago...making damn good money at a job I enjoyed. Problem was it was pretty isolated and I was the only Canadian in a crew of mostly Scotsman. They definitely ganged up on me, and there were some times I was close to walking away from it all and just taking my chances with what came up next.

Roger all that, espec the bit about the Scotties.

With his background, he probably wasn't used to the trash talking that goes on in the Midwest and the dirty South. Some of this all might be a culture shock thing.

About the Scotsman, we had two Scotties that joined my old rugby team. Those two pricks started bullying the other 30 guys! They were especially rascist and were brutal to our Black players. We soon had a bomb party at the next practice. We beat 'em bloody, but it didn't slow 'em down enuff. Them Highlanders ain't real brainy fellows. So we did another round at the next practice and they stopped.

To a Scot, bullying and rugby seem to be the same thing.

[pbmax]

Were you a 24 year old that was 6-2 310? sorry no.

The fact that you think size is a mitigating factor makes me think you don't quite grasp the full range of possible issues. Its a workplace and there are only certain responses that will be tolerated (even offsite). So even if he could physically intimidate the offenders at a time he was not outnumbered, he was going to find it hard to justify that response to his coaches and GM*.

I never had a problem with kids who were large because until the last couple of years of high school I was bigger than they were and it wasn't worth the trouble for them.

The little ones with a Napolean complex though, they were clever, sharp tongued little bastards. And the leverage of the situation worked against me there because physical intimidation would have brought sanction down on me ("look at the big, huge football player picking on the tiny little angel").

Size has nothing to do with it and can even work against you.


*None of this applies if you are Charles Haley.

[Guiness]

Roger all that, espec the bit about the Scotties.

With his background, he probably wasn't used to the trash talking that goes on in the Midwest and the dirty South. Some of this all might be a culture shock thing.

About the Scotsman, we had two Scotties that joined my old rugby team. Those two pricks started bullying the other 30 guys! They were especially rascist and were brutal to our Black players. We soon had a bomb party at the next practice. We beat 'em bloody, but it didn't slow 'em down enuff. Them Highlanders ain't real brainy fellows. So we did another round at the next practice and they stopped.

To a Scot, bullying and rugby seem to be the same thing.

Sounds about right re: the Scotties

Drill crew of about 20 guys, more than half Scotsmen. These guys were earning well over anything they could make elsewhere, and were generally fearful of losing their jobs which would probably have cut their earning potential by about 75%. A couple of guys were re-assigned for training and they were pretty much in tears. I was an outsider, probably slotted to eventually become their boss, didn't understand a lot of their slang and culture, so I became a target, there were physical threats and challenges. Luckily for me, I drank with the Russians and got on well with them.

[Guiness]

The fact that you think size is a mitigating factor makes me think you don't quite grasp the full range of possible issues. Its a workplace and there are only certain responses that will be tolerated (even offsite). So even if he could physically intimidate the offenders at a time he was not outnumbered, he was going to find it hard to justify that response to his coaches and GM*.

I never had a problem with kids who were large because until the last couple of years of high school I was bigger than they were and it wasn't worth the trouble for them.

The little ones with a Napolean complex though, they were clever, sharp tongued little bastards. And the leverage of the situation worked against me there because physical intimidation would have brought sanction down on me ("look at the big, huge football player picking on the tiny little angel").

Size has nothing to do with it and can even work against you.


*Non of this applies if you are Charles Haley.

Yup, and he it's not like he had physical superiority over them. They are all elite athletes.

Charles Haley and Martin both.

[falco]

Imagine everywhere you went at work, your coworkers were taunting you and your family....for 6 solid months.

+1