The Inside Story of How the NFL's Plan for Its 1st Openly Gay Player Fell Apart

[mraynrand]

I don't think activists are looking to drive away the idea that the behavior is sinful (some may indeed want this to be the case) but they do not want that idea enshrined in law. I am sure there are those willing to fight on that ground, but I do not think that is the main thrust.

What is law, but an expression of the values of the society? If gay behavior is no longer perceived as sinful (wrong), the law would simply reflect that. The battle is with the culture and values. Using the courts and the law is just a means to the end of changing the culture, and the activists are generally more effective in using the legal system. But they want to change the culture, and to do that, you need to collapse the pillars of resistance. They effectively neutered most churches, the military, and have captured popular culture. The institution of marriage is a popular target that is inexorably yielding so, as funny as it may seem, the NFL actually represents one of the last strongholds against acceptance and celebration. Eventually it will give way too.

[woodbuck27]

What is law, but an expression of the values of the society? If gay behavior is no longer perceived as sinful (wrong), the law would simply reflect that. The battle is with the culture and values. Using the courts and the law is just a means to the end of changing the culture, and the activists are generally more effective in using the legal system. But they want to change the culture, and to do that, you need to collapse the pillars of resistance. They effectively neutered most churches, the military, and have captured popular culture. The institution of marriage is a popular target that is inexorably yielding so, as funny as it may seem, the NFL actually represents one of the last strongholds against acceptance and celebration. Eventually it will give way too.

This thread is dangerously close to entering the area where it might be expunged.

[mraynrand]

This thread is dangerously close to entering the area where it might be expunged.

only by the intolerant

[woodbuck27]

only by the intolerant

I'll post this:

I'm glad that those "I don't give a shit" posters have taken their "I don't give a shit" attitudes out of this discussion.

Made way for those here that "do give a shit".

[pbmax]

What is law, but an expression of the values of the society? If gay behavior is no longer perceived as sinful (wrong), the law would simply reflect that. The battle is with the culture and values. Using the courts and the law is just a means to the end of changing the culture, and the activists are generally more effective in using the legal system. But they want to change the culture, and to do that, you need to collapse the pillars of resistance. They effectively neutered most churches, the military, and have captured popular culture. The institution of marriage is a popular target that is inexorably yielding so, as funny as it may seem, the NFL actually represents one of the last strongholds against acceptance and celebration. Eventually it will give way too.

Well, this is the crux of the matter. I do not believe values or behavior need be enshrined in law to remain valuable or sinful. Are there still laws on the books over adultery? There probably are considering some states rely on rules for carriages to govern their highways, but I doubt they are enforced.

Enshrinement in law is a step beyond values or beliefs. Informed by them, shaped by them, interpreted by them, but they cannot be one and the same.

[woodbuck27]

Well, this is the crux of the matter. I do not believe values or behavior need be enshrined in law to remain valuable or sinful. Are there still laws on the books over adultery? There probably are considering some states rely on rules for carriages to govern their highways, but I doubt they are enforced.

Enshrinement in law is a step beyond values or beliefs. Informed by them, shaped by them, interpreted by them, but they cannot be one and the same.

An impressive statement or declaration.

Was one of your relatives 'a Founding Father', pbmax?