The Inside Story of How the NFL's Plan for Its 1st Openly Gay Player Fell Apart

[woodbuck27]

What needed to happen is that several gay players, as they retired, needed to come out. After that happens a few times, people will start giving that "so what" response and then when someone does come out before he's ready to retire, folks will say that the NFL has had gay players for years. "So what?"

You place conditions on this issue based in a timeline!?

Come on MJ... Why are you disappointing me?

How long in your view MJZiggy must we for what has already been won?

You need some help here MJ. Your not getting it.

I'm always here to help.

What needed to happen in terms of your American Constitution:

Is that any gay NFL players shouldn't ever have any problem or issue (with NFL Teams) and with coming out or declaring themselves openly as being sexually Gay.

Why? Because today that shouldn't be an issue. The fact it is defines an American society that needs to be more open minded and intelligent in it's response to 'every person's hard fought Freedom Of Rights'.

[MJZiggy]

You place conditions on this issue based in a timeline. Come on MJ...you disappoint me. How long in your view must we for what has already been won?

No your not getting it MJ.

What needed to happen in terms of your American Constitution:

Is that any gay NFL players shouldn't ever have any problem or issue (with NFL Teams) and with coming out or declaring themselves openly as being sexually Gay.

Why? Because today that shouldn't be an issue. The fact it is defines an American society that needs to be more open minded and intelligent in it's response to 'every person's hard fought Freedom Of Rights'.

Notice the use of the past tense, Woodbuck. Today it shouldn't be an issue. Problem is that if your article is to be believed, right or wrong, it still is.

[woodbuck27]

Notice the use of the past tense, Woodbuck. Today it shouldn't be an issue. Problem is that if your article is to be believed, right or wrong, it still is.

Here is your statement MJZiggy:

" What needed to happen is that several gay players, as they retired, needed to come out. After that happens a few times, people will start giving that "so what" response and then when someone does come out before he's ready to retire, folks will say that the NFL has had gay players for years. "So what?" .. " MJZiggy


Taking this portion of your statement out of the whole:

" What needed to happen is that several gay players, as they retired, needed to come out..... "

I made my repost to you and I stand now on my broader and clearly more accurate view than yours.

You'll get it...when? After you retire?

[MJZiggy]

Here is your statement MJZiggy:

" What needed to happen is that several gay players, as they retired, needed to come out. After that happens a few times, people will start giving that "so what" response and then when someone does come out before he's ready to retire, folks will say that the NFL has had gay players for years. "So what?" .. " MJZiggy


Taking this portion of your statement out of the whole:

" What needed to happen is that several gay players, as they retired, needed to come out..... "

I made my repost to you and I stand now on my broader and clearly more accurate view than yours.

You'll get it...when? After you retire?

Needed. Past tense. Like 10 years ago. If that had happened, there would be no discussion about it now. It would be a non-issue. Quit being so defensive.

[woodbuck27]

Needed. Past tense. Like 10 years ago. If that had happened, there would be no discussion about it now. It would be a non-issue. Quit being so defensive.

I'm never defensive MJ. I need not be.

There's right and wrong and shades in between that need not be discussed in any elaborate sense.

[gbgary]

You place conditions on this issue based in a timeline!?

Come on MJ... Why are you disappointing me?

How long in your view MJZiggy must we for what has already been won?

You need some help here MJ. Ygour not getting it.

I'm always here to help.

What needed to happen in terms of your American Constitution:

Is that any gay NFL players shouldn't ever have any problem or issue (with NFL Teams) and with coming out or declaring themselves openly as being sexually Gay.

Why? Because today that shouldn't be an issue. The fact it is defines an American society that needs to be more open minded and intelligent in it's response to 'every person's hard fought Freedom Of Rights'.

don't bring nationalism into it. how many openly gay hockey players are there in canada or anywhere else? it's a human prejudice issue, a male team-sports issue...not an american issue.

[woodbuck27]

don't bring nationalism into it. how many openly gay hockey players are there in canada or anywhere else? it's a human prejudice issue...not an american issue.

Canadian hockey players and Aaron Rodgers and NFL players and gay or not.

Make a better attempt et getting focused, member.

As difficult as that may be for you gbgary. At least attempt some clear focus and not some ridiculous diversion to Canada Vs the USA (America) and OUR way Vs YOURS.

Such is to entertain a debate with me where 'YOU' gbgary would be severely tested. You would need a great deal of help to even be marginally close to making some stupid point and that. Hopefully the membership is more as a whole intelligent.

I do NOT bring Nationalism into my post. I refer to your American Constitution. I do so with all respect and if you have an issue with that **FUCK OFF please ! Thank You.

**I never go there with any member here but in your case and your debased way that's clearly appropriate and likely the 'only' thing you might understand. That's generally the 'only' demand your kind understands.

[gbgary]

bla bla bla

you said "...american society needs to..." and I infered it's world-wide male-sports issue not solely an american one. what things should be and what they are are miles apart. we agree things should be different and such things shouldn't matter but sadly that isn't the case. you've gone off the deep end with your personal
attack but that's up to you. you have a happy new year.

[woodbuck27]

you said "...american society needs to..." and I infered it's world-wide male-sports issue not solely an american one. what things should be and what they are are miles apart. we agree things should be different and such things shouldn't matter but sadly that isn't the case. you've gone off the deep end with your personal
attack but that's up to you. you have a happy new year.

See this gbgary...SEE POST #35. 'YOU gbgary' forged a post under my name.

Originally Posted by woodbuck27 View Post

Your BS gbgary not mine.

bla bla bla ... Your shit gbgary...

I don't act like such a adolescent gbgary.

Your clearly out of line doing so...'forging a post' and thereby disrespecting yourself.

I exercise a good deal more respect for myself. Are capable of such?

Personal attack..NO mister. You get simply what you clearly ask for.

[Patler]

don't bring nationalism into it. how many openly gay hockey players are there in canada or anywhere else? it's a human prejudice issue, a male team-sports issue...not an american issue.

Not a lot of openly gay players, but the NHL and hockey generally have made a commitment to acceptance of gay players. Read about Brenden Burke, and the work of NHL executives including his father and brother backing the "You Can Play Project". Many top NHL players have gotten behind the project with videos and such.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...143441932.html


There is a strong effort in the NHL and both USA Hockey and Hockey Canada to change the culture on the ice and in the locker rooms to make it accepting of gay players, much of it being the work of the Burkes.

Interesting to contrast that with the inaction of the NFL, even though Paul Tagliabue has a son who has been openly gay since before his father became Commissioner. While Paul Tagliabue has been very active in gay rights after retiring from the NFL, he didn't push the issue while commissioner, as far as I know.

[gbgary]

Not a lot of openly gay players, but the NHL and hockey generally have made a commitment to acceptance of gay players. Read about Brenden Burke, and the work of NHL executives including his father and brother backing the "You Can Play Project". Many top NHL players have gotten behind the project with videos and such.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...143441932.html


There is a strong effort in the NHL and both USA Hockey and Hockey Canada to change the culture on the ice and in the locker rooms to make it accepting of gay players, much of it being the work of the Burkes.

Interesting to contrast that with the inaction of the NFL, even though Paul Tagliabue has a son who has been openly gay since before his father became Commissioner. While Paul Tagliabue has been very active in gay rights after retiring from the NFL, he didn't push the issue while commissioner, as far as I know.

I don't track outed athletes but they are very few and far between in male team sports be it football, soccer, cricket, hockey, baseball, rugby, or whatever. any progress these institutions make is commendable and over due. I just don't see much happening for several years as these athletes keep quiet for whatever reason be it fear of personal, financial, or institutional backlash.

[Patler]

I don't track outed athletes but they are very few and far between in male team sports be it football, soccer, cricket, hockey, baseball, rugby, or whatever. any progress these institutions make is commendable and over due. I just don't see much happening for several years as these athletes keep quiet for whatever reason be it fear of personal, financial, or institutional backlash.

Of course not, because things don't change overnight. However, I believe hockey is quite far ahead of the other major sports in changing their culture. As a result, there is not much surprise in the hockey world when a player does come out. Contrast that with the fanfare in the NBA last year, and the anticipation of a breakthrough yet to come in the NFL.