Ray Rice

[Harlan Huckleby]

Many of you stank honkies would be toast if your bosses contacted PackerRats!!

Bosses or county relief.

Bosses may just be an email away, but so is ICE.

[wist43]

I remember reading an article about 20 years ago that talked about the popularity of "reality" shows in the U.K. and Europe - before that poison had spread here. The shows centered around the pack mentality of isolating the target, and then heaping abuse upon them as they were disgraced off the show.

The article talked about the possible societal consequences of such behavior and of such a worldview - that it would lead to a loss of perspective and diminishment of socially appropriate behavior for those that became engrossed is such nonsense.

Of course there was no vision of what "social media" would become - but with our society now awash with morons - that article is certainly proving to be prophetic.

[Rutnstrut]

So players can rape, do drugs, be involved in shootings etc... But the NFL and the public are outraged at someone for a domestic spat. Now the whole deal over when the NFL had possession of the video. Give me a fucking break, it's not like this is the first thing the NFL has ever covered up.

[wist43]

So players can rape, do drugs, be involved in shootings etc... But the NFL and the public are outraged at someone for a domestic spat. Now the whole deal over when the NFL had possession of the video. Give me a fucking break, it's not like this is the first thing the NFL has ever covered up.

Remember "The White House"??

[gbgary]

[pbmax]

The only people involved here are Rice and his wife; and apparently she just wants all this shit to blow over; but of course "the people" won't leave it alone, and are determined to ruin Ray and Janay's lives.

He has earned millions of dollars from his career. She is in no trouble. This is your definition of a ruined life? Do you realize how much actual suffering you are minimizing by using that adjective to describe a fabulously wealthy man? That he is denied, temporarily, employment in one business because he publicly embarrassed himself and his employer.

BTW, many Ravens fans are backing Rice. So I don't think his career is done yet.

This social media shit is completely out of control... and it's b/c people can no longer control themselves and mind their own fucking business. You take care of you, and I'll take care of me... that used to be a staple of American citizenship - long since forgotten now I guess.

This is actually nothing new and has little to do with social media. Someone I know very well was followed for a week after a car accident by an investigator for an insurance company to gather evidence against any claims for injury that might eventually occur. Social media didn't invent people trying to save their business money. Its just another window to peek in.

[Patler]

Many tradespeople can be fired for drug use - some on the spot.

I know in my profession, they do a pretty thorough background check and ask individuals to respond to any possible transgressions.

Heck, I'm instituting an 'emotional intelligence' component to my current recruiting practice because I'm sick of dealing with unstable people.

You all should read an interesting case of a kindergarten teacher caught defacing a Walker booth a a local county fare... should she be fired/suspended? Can the school district do independent investigation? Regardless of political view - would you want your 5yr old being taught by someone with less than stellar character?

But now you are mixing in transgressions that impact the ability of the individual to perform their job. In those situations, of course the person should lose their job. I already acknowledged that when I advanced the questions. A lawyer or accountant who embezzles money will lose their license because their dishonesty calls into question whether or not they can do their job honestly. That's not the situation with Rice, nor what I was questioning.

[Patler]

It kind of makes me sick to my stomach reading Ray Lewis' attempt to contrast his situation and Rice's:

"There is no comparison. This is nothing about me, personally, me speaking with the owner of the Ravens today, Steve Biscotti, just moments ago," Lewis said. "And just listening to the reason why Ray Rice will never play for the Ravens again, he put his daughter — he put anybody that's connected to him that's a female — he put them in that position. When you do that you have to take a step back. When you're an owner and anybody who walks in the room and you see that type of evidence that you haven't seen or heard before ...

“One thing Steve made very clear: there is no comparison of me and Ray Rice. It's night and day. It's night and day of anything we've ever been through and that's why both situations are totally different.”

In another one I read he kept harping on the fact that it was someones daughter. someone's sister; and if anyone did that to his daughter or sister there would be trouble. Well, what about it being someones son or brother, and the fact that his life was taken?? Lewis was accepted back with open arms.

[wist43]

He has earned millions of dollars from his career. She is in no trouble. This is your definition of a ruined life? Do you realize how much actual suffering you are minimizing by using that adjective to describe a fabulously wealthy man? That he is denied, temporarily, employment in one business because he publicly embarrassed himself and his employer.

BTW, many Ravens fans are backing Rice. So I don't think his career is done yet.




This is actually nothing new and has little to do with social media. Someone I know very well was followed for a week after a car accident by an investigator for an insurance company to gather evidence against any claims for injury that might eventually occur. Social media didn't invent people trying to save their business money. Its just another window to peek in.

So Maximus Sanctimonious has decreed that Mr. Rice has made "enough", and that his and his family's needs, wants, and desires are sufficiently fulfilled that they must never be allowed to work again... that about right??

I feel blessed to have finally found a man without sin. A man so grounded in wisdom and insight that such a decree can only be deemed beyond reproach - as the man is surely above reproach.

All hail Maximus

[pbmax]

So Maximus Sanctimonious has decreed that Mr. Rice has made "enough", and that his and his family's needs, wants, and desires are sufficiently fulfilled that they must never be allowed to work again... that about right??

I feel blessed to have finally found a man without sin. A man so grounded in wisdom and insight that such a decree can only be deemed beyond reproach - as the man is surely above reproach.

All hail Maximus

Quit being so defensive. There is a lot of distance between ruined, fabulously wealthy and enough.

[Fosco33]

But now you are mixing in transgressions that impact the ability of the individual to perform their job. In those situations, of course the person should lose their job. I already acknowledged that when I advanced the questions. A lawyer or accountant who embezzles money will lose their license because their dishonesty calls into question whether or not they can do their job honestly. That's not the situation with Rice, nor what I was questioning.

Not entirely. I could easily be fired for a DUI. Or things that are posted on social media. And trust me- my job has nothing to do with any of that. It's a professional service industry.

[pbmax]

Some more thoughts on the pattern of domestic abuse:

The Patterns: http://deadspin.com/the-only-thing-u...hat-1633583402

Blaming themselves or recanting the original charge: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21840635 (link from above story)

I can't find a decent summary of the last point I want to make, so I'll paraphrase and link to the source. When Goodell met with the combatants before deciding discipline, he presumably wanted to hear Janay Palmer's side of the story. He did it with Ray Rice in the room. Also present were Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome, Ravens club president Dick Cass plus Jeff Pash and Adolpho Birch of the league.

Does anyone see a problem with that lineup? Everyone has a vested interest in the financial success of the meeting. Only one person has a truly vested interest in the victim's health. And that person is conflicted at best, compromised as worst. And sitting in the same room with the abuser when speaking to his bosses.

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/25/ray-ri...ension-ravens/

Goodell should be sanctioned in some way, but not because he doesn't understand domestic abuse or levies minimal sanctions against it. He shouldn't be fired because some NFL Security lackey made him out to be a liar about the tape. Not should he be fired for apparently not asking how NFL Security got a detailed description of the elevator tape without possessing it, something he claims he thought was illegal. Not because he backed himself and the League into a corner by having a pot offense go for a year and a domestic abuse situation go for 2 games.

He should be sanctioned because he is dumb enough to think he knows enough to be judge and jury for the Personal Conduct Policy. Anyone with an ounce of self-awareness would know how big a job that is, how much information they don't have and would look to create a functional structure to guard against being a complete schmuck.

[Rastak]

It kind of makes me sick to my stomach reading Ray Lewis' attempt to contrast his situation and Rice's:



In another one I read he kept harping on the fact that it was someones daughter. someone's sister; and if anyone did that to his daughter or sister there would be trouble. Well, what about it being someones son or brother, and the fact that his life was taken?? Lewis was accepted back with open arms.

With all due respect, and I do respect your takes. Ray Lewis killed no one. I watched that trial and he wasn't remotely connected. There is no way he killed those guys. No way.


Now maybe you have a point as it relates to his lack of candor about the two thugs in his posse that killed those guys, and the fact they were aquitted. I guess if that's your point, perhaps I agree after all. He certainly didn't spill his guts even if he wasn't involved.

[Patler]

Not entirely. I could easily be fired for a DUI. Or things that are posted on social media. And trust me- my job has nothing to do with any of that. It's a professional service industry.

The question is SHOULD you be fired for acts in your personal life unrelated to your job?

[Patler]

With all due respect, and I do respect your takes. Ray Lewis killed no one. I watched that trial and he wasn't remotely connected. There is no way he killed those guys. No way.


Now maybe you have a point as it relates to his lack of candor about the two thugs in his posse that killed those guys, and the fact they were aquitted. I guess if that's your point, perhaps I agree after all. He certainly didn't spill his guts even if he wasn't involved.

Not remotely connected??? Where did his white suit go?

[Rastak]

Not remotely connected??? Where did his white suit go?

There was absolutely no evidence against him. That asshat covered it up though. He shoved them into the limo and tried to hush it all.


Look, courttv is a cool thing and hearing all the testimony is really interesting. He came off as only concerned with his image after two guys were murdered by two thugs in his group.

[George Cumby]

How did his white suit get blood on it? Because he was standing a discrete 30' away?

[sharpe1027]

Forget that it is the NFL. It's an employer. Just like your employer. Forget (for the moment) that it is domestic violence case. It's a violation of our criminal justice standards, like other violations, assault against anyone, drunk driving, whatever.

Under what situations should your employer have the right to gather evidence on their own, review it on their own, and determine "their" punishment for you on their own apart from the determination made by criminal justice system?

It's easy to say "Ban the guy for life!" when it is a rich athlete and he punched his fiancee. By all accounts I have seen, there have been no other incidents and Rice has been described as a model citizen until now. The NFL has banned him.

If you are a licensed professional or tradesman, should your license be suspended for life based on your first criminal transgression when it is not one such as larceny, etc. that impacts your suitability for your profession? If you are a guy, should you lose it for sucker punching another guy in a bar? A female you don't know in a bar? A female acquaintance with whom you have no relationship? Your wife? How about if it is between gay couples? What if it's a wife suckerpunching her husband? Another female? Should you lose your license for life?

I'm not condoning what Rice did, nor the right for the NFL to issue some punishment, but I think we need to consider the when, how and how much in the same manner as we would if it was any of us and our employers.

I buy the NFL product. I have a right to voice my opinion on what they should be doing. They don't have to listen, but the NFL would be stupid to alienate its customers. Other employers are no different. I don't understand your point. It has nothing to do with criminal justice system our professional licenses.

[Patler]

I buy the NFL product. I have a right to voice my opinion on what they should be doing. They don't have to listen, but the NFL would be stupid to alienate its customers. Other employers are no different. I don't understand your point. It has nothing to do with criminal justice system our professional licenses.

So the masses decide the rights of the individual?

The NFL has banned Rice, taken away his ability to play professional football in this country. It's no different than suspending a licensed professional's license, rendering him unable to practice his/her profession.

[sharpe1027]

So the masses decide the rights of the individual?

The NFL has banned Rice, taken away his ability to play professional football in this country. It's no different than suspending a licensed professional's license, rendering him unable to practice his/her profession.

No different? You mean there are some similarities? Let's not overstate things. If your point is that NFL is a monopoly and therefore not comparable to most employers, that's a bit different than what you were saying above about any employers rights.

Your issue seems to be whether the NFL has the right to do what they did. What gives Rice the right to work for the NFL? If they don't want him, should they be forced to hire him?