Official Non NFC North NFL News 2014 (Unofficial Johnny Manziel)

[mraynrand]

PB, you know damn well it wasn't the commercial, but the content. And of course the NFL hates anything that upsets their perfect little apple cart. But College and NFL players have been using their notoriety and clout to push positions since notoriety and clout came into existence. It's not shocking. The Sams situation was far different in that it was carried out at an NFL event. Far more comparable would be 'the Tebow' during games. But Still, that was done openly with no hidden agendas. The dishonest subterfuge (or at least false pretenses) is what makes the Sams thing so slimy (and I mean that regardless of the actual content).

[pbmax]

PB, you know damn well it wasn't the commercial, but the content. And of course the NFL hates anything that upsets their perfect little apple cart. But College and NFL players have been using their notoriety and clout to push positions since notoriety and clout came into existence. It's not shocking. The Sams situation was far different in that it was carried out at an NFL event. Far more comparable would be 'the Tebow' during games. But Still, that was done openly with no hidden agendas. The dishonest subterfuge (or at least false pretenses) is what makes the Sams thing so slimy (and I mean that regardless of the actual content).

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

[mraynrand]

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[bobblehead]

No I don't believe it was the content. The content or position just tells you which side of the field each team will line up on. Tebow did the ad, the FRC ran the ad and he was still drafted above projection in the first round. Sam cancelled the documentary after the getting a lot of pushback.

Both were unprecedented. Both planned pre-draft. Both done without team or league consent. Both in violation of the principle teams hold dear (however hypocritical their subsequent actions are). Especially with young players, most teams are trying to steer clear of the distraction.

The fact that both were firsts tells us more about the norm of player behavior (even among players looking to cash in). And the public reactions were predictable. You are going to have to point me to a source on the subterfuge, because I have not read about it.

Your comparing a commercial shot off site with a camera crew filming a reality show in the midst of training camp, grilling every player about what its like having a gay teammate, just waiting for the explosion when one highly educated well spoken basket weaving major doesn't say exactly the right thing.

[pbmax]

Your comparing a commercial shot off site with a camera crew filming a reality show in the midst of training camp, grilling every player about what its like having a gay teammate, just waiting for the explosion when one highly educated well spoken basket weaving major doesn't say exactly the right thing.

Actually, I am not trying to compare the projects themselves, but their timing, intrusion (from the NFL's perspective) and reaction from the wider world.

Its possible the doc might have been exactly what you say, though without the cooperation of the team and League, they aren't going to get access to the other players. And I assume, but could be wrong, that Sam is sincere in wanting to make a roster, so I don't think he would sign off on a project designed to burn bridges. But they would not need to be hyper-aggressive to get inflammatory footage (should that be flammatory footage?). Someone will say something regrettable during camp (maybe just some fans) and that will be a story for 5 days. The documentary's only edge is access to Sam and his family.

To go back to the original point, I do think the NFL can come under siege when these topics come up. But that siege is predicable and pretty uniform. There are the usual public actors on both sides decrying the tragedy. The are omnipresent because they have to justify their paycheck. But what raises these two incidents are the people who feel they are in the middle, and I don't mean a political center. They would prefer to ignore all of it and not have their sports commingled with politics; sexual, reproductive or otherwise. I find this view common, though a bit naive. However, it crosses the political spectrum and does not accrue to one side or the other overall. We have seen some of them on this board when the topic strays from football (Tebow, Sam, Redskins).

They don't want to think or deal with the topic. And they are mad that folks keep dragging them back into it. Depending on the individual, you get some pretty vitriolic reactions. And I don't think those reactions are reserved to one side of the debate or the other. They are the aggrieved storks of debate.