The Defense - Again, the Defense :(

[Maxie the Taxi]

I thought the emphasis this season on defense was supposed to be on simplicity. Still we're hearing Capers talking about "communication breakdowns" and his inability to get the right player groups into the game on time. Stubby said he was disappointed that the assistant coaches weren't operating efficiently. The players are talking about mistakes and needing "experience." ( "Gaining experience will help," Hyde said, "and making some mistakes. We made a lot of mistakes in Seattle, and we just have to learn from them.") Listening to Capers talk you almost have to be a Ph.D to follow him.

This all seems to me to indicate that either the new system is not as simple as advertised, or that the changeover from the old system has the players confused, or that the players are not able to "play fast" because they still feel unsure of their assignments. Maybe it's all of the above.

It all comes down to the coaches getting the players in position to succeed. Seattle coaches did. Green Bay coaches didn't.

[pbmax]

Yes, in the history of football no well designed defense has been caught by a play that left a rookie safety one on one with a WR.

Chris B. Brown @smartfootball · Sep 4
Seattle scored on the same concept Auburn scored a late TD on vs Alabama, with zone read, keep or throw downfield: http://i5.minus.com/ih3R8tYvXniXl.jpg …


Its football not The Battle for Europe. For every defensive call, whether you are Capers, Saban, Belichick or LeBeau, you can get pantsed by the right call.

[pbmax]

I thought the emphasis this season on defense was supposed to be on simplicity. Still we're hearing Capers talking about "communication breakdowns" and his inability to get the right player groups into the game on time. Stubby said he was disappointed that the assistant coaches weren't operating efficiently. The players are talking about mistakes and needing "experience." ( "Gaining experience will help," Hyde said, "and making some mistakes. We made a lot of mistakes in Seattle, and we just have to learn from them.") Listening to Capers talk you almost have to be a Ph.D to follow him.

This all seems to me to indicate that either the new system is not as simple as advertised, or that the changeover from the old system has the players confused, or that the players are not able to "play fast" because they still feel unsure of their assignments. Maybe it's all of the above.

It all comes down to the coaches getting the players in position to succeed. Seattle coaches did. Green Bay coaches didn't.

I agree with all of this, except simplicity in this case meant fewer fronts and formations. The only simplicity we know about seems to be technique assignments for the front 7. Otherwise, it looks the same. But I am not sure they promised more.

I also don't fully understand the communication problem from the first half. Capers D has often matched up personnel with nickel and dime. Was it just late Seattle subs that caused the problem? Was it the noise?

They do have players in new positions (Hayward is back, Hyde is at safety, rookie safety in Dix, Jones is a SAM now plus Peppers and Guion and Jones in base) so I do expect some growing pains.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Here's another eyeopener for me (http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-pa...me-breakdown):

Against Seattle, the Packer offense ran 62 plays. Basically 6 players (Rodgers, Bakhtiari, Lange, Linsley, Sitton and Nelson) played every offensive down (Jordy played 61). Bulaga would have played every down but was hurt. Sherrod played the downs Bulaga missed.

Randall Cobb played 57 offensive plays.

The remaining snaps (192) were spread out among 9 players, which is an average of 21 plays each. (Injuries to Richard Rodgers and Lacy accounted for some of this.)

Now look at the defense which was in there for 70 Seattle offensive plays:

Only 4 defensive Packers played all 70 defensive plays (Brad Jones, T. Williams, Shields, and Burnett).

Claymaker and Peppers played 66 and 59 plays respectively.

The remaining defensive snaps (364) were spread out among 10 players for an average of 36 snaps each.

A couple of things jump out at me immediately:

First, why is Brad Jones in there for every defensive play? (Lattimore and Barrington didn't play a single snap.)

Second, Capers is shuffling a lot of players on and off the field throughout the game. We've heard of running back "by committee." Capers is playing defense by committee.

My question and conclusion:

I think there is more consistency and less mistakes in the offense because Stubby fields his best core players the vast majority of the time.

On the other hand, Capers' defense suffers from many mistakes, communication errors and inconsistency because he doesn't have his best players on the field most of the time. (And he has Jones on the field all of the time.)

It's almost like Capers believes in his schemes and formations more than in his players.

Maybe it's time for Capers' to settle on 8 or 9 core players and let them play most of the game. He could still run varying formations and schemes, but there would be more consistency because it would be the same top players in there performing for him.

The bottom line for me is screw the fancy defenses. Play something simple and play it with your best eleven players on the field.

[wist43]

Here's another eyeopener for me (http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-pa...me-breakdown):

Against Seattle, the Packer offense ran 62 plays. Basically 6 players (Rodgers, Bakhtiari, Lange, Linsley, Sitton and Nelson) played every offensive down (Jordy played 61). Bulaga would have played every down but was hurt. Sherrod played the downs Bulaga missed.

Randall Cobb played 57 offensive plays.

The remaining snaps (192) were spread out among 9 players, which is an average of 21 plays each. (Injuries to Richard Rodgers and Lacy accounted for some of this.)

Now look at the defense which was in there for 70 Seattle offensive plays:

Only 4 defensive Packers played all 70 defensive plays (Brad Jones, T. Williams, Shields, and Burnett).

Claymaker and Peppers played 66 and 59 plays respectively.

The remaining defensive snaps (364) were spread out among 10 players for an average of 36 snaps each.

A couple of things jump out at me immediately:

First, why is Brad Jones in there for every defensive play? (Lattimore and Barrington didn't play a single snap.)

Second, Capers is shuffling a lot of players on and off the field throughout the game. We've heard of running back "by committee." Capers is playing defense by committee.

My question and conclusion:

I think there is more consistency and less mistakes in the offense because Stubby fields his best core players the vast majority of the time.

On the other hand, Capers' defense suffers from many mistakes, communication errors and inconsistency because he doesn't have his best players on the field most of the time. (And he has Jones on the field all of the time.)

It's almost like Capers believes in his schemes and formations more than in his players.

Maybe it's time for Capers' to settle on 8 or 9 core players and let them play most of the game. He could still run varying formations and schemes, but there would be more consistency because it would be the same top players in there performing for him.

The bottom line for me is screw the fancy defenses. Play something simple and play it with your best eleven players on the field.

Good post Maxi... I agree, with the perpetual youth movement - there are simply too many moving parts, too many calls, too many alignments.

The miscommunication, missed assignments, players out of position... you would think the Packer braintrust would figure this stuff out, but we have years worth of evidence that says they are blind to the fact that perpetual youth requires some accomadation in how the defense can function.

[pbmax]

Based on Pro Football Focus numbers:

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 11h
Based on @PFF numbers, #Packers defense missed 18 tackles [Thursday]. Rest of NFC North combined for 16.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 10h
For the record, #Packers tackling in 2013 was barely below average. 2012, it was great.

[denverYooper]

It could be worse. They could have Pittsburgh's defense. Yeesh.

[pbmax]

It could be worse. They could have Pittsburgh's defense. Yeesh.

Great offseason quote:

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 11h
OK so this is why, back at Senior Bowl in Jan., Dick LeBeau said that "We’re talking about Dom and I’ve got my own problems." Yikes, Pitt.

[ThunderDan]

Funny, I was watching the game last night and BALT was running the 2-4. Phil Simms even comment that, "when your two OLBs are as big as the BALT OLBs its like having 4 DL in the game."

[denverYooper]

Funny, I was watching the game last night and BALT was running the 2-4. Phil Simms even comment that, "when your two OLBs are as big as the BALT OLBs its like having 4 DL in the game."

Upshaw is a monster LB.

[wist43]

Funny, I was watching the game last night and BALT was running the 2-4. Phil Simms even comment that, "when your two OLBs are as big as the BALT OLBs its like having 4 DL in the game."

1) their personnel are better than ours
2) their DC doesn't put them in unsound, unrecoverable situations with gimmick after gimmick
3) they don't run it exclusively - it is a subpackage, and treated as such
4) their 2nd level players are much bigger than ours
5) they run as much 3-3 as 2-4; again, for them it is a subpackage, not their base

The 2-4 has a place, but you have to have the personnel to run it, and in no way should it be a base. It is a niche subpackage that a defense can do some good things out of - but the way dunderdummy runs it, and the fact that he runs it almost every snap - it is, and has been, a death sentence for our team.

As I've pointed out - no one - no one - runs the 2-4 as much as dunderdummy; and it isn't even close. If we had the players, and have been getting good results?? Yes, run it 24/7... but that isn't the case - is it?? We don't have the players, and the results have been putrid.

Why you guys love watching your team get gashed play after play is beyond me.

[Fosco33]

I'm done with AJ Hawk. There was a specific play (3rd/short, 1st Q) where Harvin got a swing pass. Hawk could have blown him up around the Hawks 40 and for some reason backbeddled... then made the tackle (after the 1st down).

Last year it was the safeties, this year its the MLB. Jones/Hawk do not inspire confidence (or fear in an opponent).

I wonder if that (and Peppers) would be part of the reason to run more 4/3 type defenses (to hide a weakness, exploit a talent).

[wist43]

It could be worse. They could have Pittsburgh's defense. Yeesh.

Pittsburgh's defense is much better than ours...

Our LB's are terrible - which would explain why dunderdummy designs gameplans to ensure that as many of them as possible are on the field as much as possible?? What's wrong with that picture??

Capers is lost... don't know what stage of alzheimers he's in, but he's definitely on his way.

[pbmax]

I'm done with AJ Hawk. There was a specific play (3rd/short, 1st Q) where Harvin got a swing pass. Hawk could have blown him up around the Hawks 40 and for some reason backbeddled... then made the tackle (after the 1st down).

Last year it was the safeties, this year its the MLB. Jones/Hawk do not inspire confidence (or fear in an opponent).

I wonder if that (and Peppers) would be part of the reason to run more 4/3 type defenses (to hide a weakness, exploit a talent).

Perhaps, but no ILBs have come off the field. Peppers on the field is allowing Matthews to roam, not substitute.

[Cheesehead Craig]

2) their DC doesn't put them in unsound, unrecoverable situations with gimmick after gimmick

This is the part that drives me nuts about the 3-4 in general. It's a defense that relies on trickery and lends itself to gimmicks to succeed. Problem with this is that it may work at the beginning (which is how Capers always gets a great opening start to defenses whereever he goes) but then when you start relying on that too much as Capers does, you start going downhill in a hurry. Gimmicks don't last and Capers shouldn't last here anymore either. Wish they would have fired him back after the 2011-2012 season.

Give me a 4-3 defense any day of the week. Less bullshit and more playing.

[denverYooper]

Pittsburgh's defense is much better than ours...

Our LB's are terrible - which would explain why dunderdummy designs gameplans to ensure that as many of them as possible are on the field as much as possible?? What's wrong with that picture??

Capers is lost... don't know what stage of alzheimers he's in, but he's definitely on his way.

I get the feeling you didn't watch the game last night otherwise you might rethink the assertion that Pittsburgh's defense is (in the present tense) better than GBs... they had their glory days with that crew, for sure, but Pittsburgh just got manhandled last night. It was kind of sad to see Brett Keisel just get buried several times.

FYI:
Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete 8m
26, a monstrous number. RT @brooksob53 how many tackles did the Steelers miss in all last night?

[Fritz]

Wist's eyebrow hairs have grown so long he can't see out from under them any more.

But I will say that Packer defense did suck, once again, last week.

[wist43]

I get the feeling you didn't watch the game last night otherwise you might rethink the assertion that Pittsburgh's defense is (in the present tense) better than GBs... they had their glory days with that crew, for sure, but Pittsburgh just got manhandled last night. It was kind of sad to see Brett Keisel just get buried several times.

FYI:
Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete 8m
26, a monstrous number. RT @brooksob53 how many tackles did the Steelers miss in all last night?

I'm not defending Pittsburgh - I'm indicting our defense... it's all relative.

Our defense is better than someone's I'm sure... just don't know who that could be??

[Maxie the Taxi]

From ESPN Packer Blog:

Combine the tackling issues with the fact that the Packers allowed the second-most rushing yards (207) last weekend, and perhaps it's not a surprise that the coaches are leaning toward activating rookie nose tackle Mike Pennel this week against the New York Jets.

Their biggest defensive linemen, the 332-pound Pennel was one of last week's seven mandatory inactive players.

"Well he's certainly a big guy," defensive coordinator Dom Capers said Thursday. "I think he'll have a role. It will probably depend on what personnel groups we’re in based off what they give us."

Pennel, an undrafted rookie from Colorado State-Pueblo, was impressive from the outset of training camp and has seen his practice snaps increase this week.

"We've been trying to get him some reps in practice where if we decide to go that direction, he'd be ready to play a role," Capers said.

So Pennel will probably suit up Sunday, but will play only if the Jets don't delay substituting their personnel groups giving Capers time to send Pennel's personnel group into the game without having 10 or 12 Packers on defense.

[George Cumby]

Wist's eyebrow hairs have grown so long he can't see out from under them any more.

But I will say that Packer defense did suck, once again, last week.

Last week?

Shit.

Since the SB run.