OFFICIAL 2015 NFL DRAFT THREAD

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have talked myself out of the Packers taking an ILB in the first 3 rounds. Either a D-lineman, CB or Rush OLB is going to fall to us and TT is going to have to take him - just my gut feeling.

Furthermore, I think the top tier ILBs (Anthony, McKinney, Perryman, etc.) are going to be gone before the Packers pick in the 2nd. The rest of the ILBs I have going in the 4th and later.

So, I'm doing a alot of last minute cramming on some ILBs that will be available in the later rounds.
My list so far includes:

Ben Heeney – Kansas
Ramik Wilson - Georgia
Jake Ryan – Michigan
Bryce Hager – Baylor

Out of those - Wilson and Ryan are becoming my favorites - especially Jake Ryan, he sounds like a TT pick.

Great job as prognosticator, pittstang. You nailed it!

[red]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8...hael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

[HarveyWallbangers]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8...hael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

Shane Ray didn't run 4.91 at the combine. Shane Ray also beat Sam in every measurable.

[Guiness]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8...hael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

Don't know if I totally buy that, especially the part about 'on field talent'. Everything I've seen about Sams is that he was a marginal talent who was never seen as a player who would go in the first few rounds of the draft even before he came out.

I'd say he was hurt a lot more by running a 4.9 forty, follow by a > 5sec time at the veteran combine didn't help.

[mraynrand]

i brought this subject up briefly in one of the many draft threads, and this guy seems to have also picked up on it

http://www.outsports.com/2015/4/30/8...hael-sam-draft

shane ray and micheal sam, almost identical players. same position, same team, same coach, same system, same type of production. in fact, ray was sams backup until sam graduated.

one got busted for drugs the week of the draft and slides but still goes in the first round. the other comes out as gay after being named SEC defensive player of the year, and goes with one of the last picks in the draft, and still can't find a job even though the on field talent and passion is there, not even as a backup special teams player

it sure does seem like the nfl has a problem with gays, even though they say they don't

message to other gay football players, "don't ask, don't tell"

So you're accusing the entire NFL of bigotry. Sure you didn't miss anyone?

[Guiness]

Shane Ray didn't run 4.91 at the combine. Shane Ray also beat Sam in every measurable.

Well...Ray didn't run at all at the combine.

[red]

Shane Ray didn't run 4.91 at the combine. Shane Ray also beat Sam in every measurable.

sam ran a 4.73 at his pro day, on the same track that ray ran a 4.68, i think it was

ray did 21 reps, sam did 19
ray had a 33 inch vert, sam had a 30

neither did any of the on field drills at the combine

other "measurables", ray is an inch taller, sam was 10 pounds heavier (but still considered too small to be a DE, not a problem for ray)

as the article mentions, the college stats were almost identical, the players were almost identical. when sam came out, people said he didn't test well, and you can't just judge a guy by what he did in college on film. when ray dissappointed at his pro day, the same people said, you can't look at the numbers, you can see on the game film how good he is

[red]

So you're accusing the entire NFL of bigotry. Sure you didn't miss anyone?

yeah, you asshat

nfl+1

[mraynrand]

yeah, you asshat

nfl+1

Why not just accuse everyone, except of course yourself - you, the lone bastion of enlightenment, with vulgarity as a co-segregating trait. We here at Packerrats can only be grateful to god to have you as our moral compass.

[mraynrand]

sam ran a 4.73 at his pro day, on the same track that ray ran a 4.68, i think it was

ray did 21 reps, sam did 19
ray had a 33 inch vert, sam had a 30

neither did any of the on field drills at the combine

other "measurables", ray is an inch taller, sam was 10 pounds heavier (but still considered too small to be a DE, not a problem for ray)

as the article mentions, the college stats were almost identical, the players were almost identical. when sam came out, people said he didn't test well, and you can't just judge a guy by what he did in college on film. when ray dissappointed at his pro day, the same people said, you can't look at the numbers, you can see on the game film how good he is

And just a year later, he's in the 5s. That must be bigotry-induced speed loss.

[sharpe1027]

40 YARD DASH: 4.91 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 17 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 25.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 114.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.80 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.70 SEC

His numbers were pretty bad.

[smuggler]

7.8 3 cone is basically undraftable as an edge rusher... the reason he got drafted was his college productivity alone. Btw, I think Ray is a better than average bust candidate. The fact he is not a taboobuster is only a slight bonus.

Longer arms than Sam. Bigger frame, with potential for growth. Taller. Drastically better vertical jump and more explosive. Much better all around athlete. Sam would never have been drafted in the first four rounds because of a myriad of things that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I do think it's more than likely that coming out hurt his draft stock a bit, but that was more to do with the media than biggotry on the part of the NFL.

The fact he is not on a roster right now has much more to do with how bad he is than his choice of sexual partner. If Vic Beasley came out a few weeks before the draft, he would absolutely have been drafted by the end of the 3rd round. Probably well before then.

[pbmax]

I will say if he was a UDFA for the Packers (just a hypothetical not an argument) I would have expected him to live at least one year on the PS. Against the Packers, he trashed the RT 3 times in a relatively short time frame and had at least 2 QB hits (1 sack)*. He would have had his own thread here and a bandwagon committee after a performance like that.

Now could he have done that against starters? UDFAs don't often make that leap even after M3 compliments their offseason. But I would have been surprised if he had not been given a year to develop.

But I don't agree it was simple bigotry that caused him only to get a 6 game stint in Dallas on their PS. Marginal players who invite distraction are routinely let go. He got Tebowed. Its not a directly analogous, because Tebow might not be able to run the team offense, but a similar dynamic is at work.


*More than the sum total of Jamal Reynolds career

[mraynrand]

Marginal players who invite distraction are routinely let go. He got Tebowed. Its not a directly analogous, because Tebow might not be able to run the team offense, but a similar dynamic is at work.

I think this is spot on. Coaches and teams hate distractions. They have enough of them already without a media circus. If Sam were a strong player though, he'd be on a roster. Coaches would probably have an ISIS guy on their team, if the guy could get 10-15 sacks. They'd just hire an extra guy or two to keep him away from sharp objects, like machetes.

[pbmax]

I think this is spot on. Coaches and teams hate distractions. They have enough of them already without a media circus. If Sam were a strong player though, he'd be on a roster. Coaches would probably have an ISIS guy on their team, if the guy could get 10-15 sacks. They'd just hire an extra guy or two to keep him away from sharp objects, like machetes.

Exactly. In order:

1. Production
2. Talent
3. Draft Pick
3. Distraction

And you only get a year or two on talent alone. Change in regime also negates your draft pick status. We could make a board game out of this.

Settlers of the Combine

Now its not fair to either. I think both deserve more of a shot (Tebow* might finally be getting one), but coaches are control freaks and this stuff drives them nuts. I suspect more people are uncomfortable with Sam on their team because questions of religion dividing a team were a settled favorably long ago while a public same-sex preference is very new. The Tebow phenomenon was a singular confluence of events. But the dynamic is along the same lines.

Its going to take a couple of very good players to tamp down the concerns.


* I don't think Tebow is a starting QB, however he is vastly more talented as an offensive threat than 30 of 32 backup QBs. Needing a separate offense is problematic, but Tebow in Philly might develop into a nightmare for opposing defenses, even while he is not a starter.

[red]

now the whole "too big of a media distraction" is an argument i can understand

if not for the media circus surrounding him, is he on an nfl roster right now?

[pbmax]

now the whole "too big of a media distraction" is an argument i can understand

if not for the media circus surrounding him, is he on an nfl roster right now?

The guy I saw work the 2nd string Packer RT did. But could he do that to the 1st string guy?

He needed another year to develop but didn't get it. His vet combine didn't look promising.

[Fritz]

Why not just accuse everyone, except of course yourself - you, the lone bastion of enlightenment, with vulgarity as a co-segregating trait. We here at Packerrats can only be grateful to god to have you as our moral compass.

Red as our moral compass. Damn, I like that!

[red]

7.8 3 cone is basically undraftable as an edge rusher... the reason he got drafted was his college productivity alone. Btw, I think Ray is a better than average bust candidate. The fact he is not a taboobuster is only a slight bonus.

Longer arms than Sam. Bigger frame, with potential for growth. Taller. Drastically better vertical jump and more explosive. Much better all around athlete. Sam would never have been drafted in the first four rounds because of a myriad of things that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I do think it's more than likely that coming out hurt his draft stock a bit, but that was more to do with the media than biggotry on the part of the NFL.

The fact he is not on a roster right now has much more to do with how bad he is than his choice of sexual partner. If Vic Beasley came out a few weeks before the draft, he would absolutely have been drafted by the end of the 3rd round. Probably well before then.

you want to throw out some more flat out lies to try and make your point?

arms-
ray- 33 1/8
sam- 33 3/8

sam has longer arms

weight

ray-245
sam- 261

height

ray-6'3
sam- 6'2

wow, soooo much taller

hands

ray- 9"
sam- 9 3/8

verticle (at mizzou pro day)

ray- 33
sam- 30

wow, 3 inches is drastically better?

the 3 cone, sams big downfall

sam had a 7.80
ray- 7.60

better, but still shitty compared to most. (vic beasly had a 6.91, clay did it in 6.90 for reference)

shuttle

ray 4.58
sam 4.70

both shitty and not that different (cm3 had a 4.18)



mike mayock came out and flat out said ray didn't have a good pro day, said he looked "stiff in the hips", same thing that sam had a problem with

paul dawson, had worse numbers then sam in every category, but went in the third

like i said earlier. when ray didn't do anything at the combine and disappointed at his pro day, the "experts" said, "forget the number, watch the tape"

when sam had a bad combine and pro day, the same exact experts said "forget how good the tape looks, the numbers tell us everything"

[red]

Red as our moral compass. Damn, I like that!

we are all fucked, big time