OFFICIAL 2015 NFL DRAFT THREAD

[red]

Red, you're a dumbshit, and more importantly, a cunt. Go crawl in a hole and die, moron.

V I'd say the Montgomery drop is worse, but it is just a practice...

i know, cold hard facts and numbers are such are so cruel

[yetisnowman]

i know, cold hard facts and numbers are such are so cruel

This dude is the biggest baby. If you disagree with him, or ask him to explain his assertions and hyperbole with facts, he throws and tantrum and cusses people out.

[red]

This dude is the biggest baby. If you disagree with him, or ask him to explain his assertions and hyperbole with facts, he throws and tantrum and cusses people out.

yup, our argument goes all the way back to a couple days ago when i linked to a story talking about micheal sam and shane ray, comparing the two, and showing how it didn't look right that sam would be drafted with one of the last picks last year, while his backup in college would be a first rounder

i must have hit a nerve with all the gay talk cause smuggie gave me a negative rep point, with the reason being "stupid"

when he did decide to give a reason why it was "stupid", it was because ray was bigger with longer arms and tested sooo much better then sam did

i gave him a negative rep point then for making an il-informed post that was basicaly made up of bull shit out of the blue

i then let him know in the thread that they are close to the same height, sam has a lot more weight, longer arms, bigger hands, and they both tested about the same (they both tested horribly.

to which he gave me another negative rep point, and threw the little fit that you quoted

so yeah, it seems you're right

[pbmax]

I will say if he was a UDFA for the Packers (just a hypothetical not an argument) I would have expected him to live at least one year on the PS. Against the Packers, he trashed the RT 3 times in a relatively short time frame and had at least 2 QB hits (1 sack)*. He would have had his own thread here and a bandwagon committee after a performance like that.

Now could he have done that against starters? UDFAs don't often make that leap even after M3 compliments their offseason. But I would have been surprised if he had not been given a year to develop.

But I don't agree it was simple bigotry that caused him only to get a 6 game stint in Dallas on their PS. Marginal players who invite distraction are routinely let go. He got Tebowed. Its not a directly analogous, because Tebow might not be able to run the team offense, but a similar dynamic is at work.


*More than the sum total of Jamal Reynolds career

[mraynrand]

Marginal players who invite distraction are routinely let go. He got Tebowed. Its not a directly analogous, because Tebow might not be able to run the team offense, but a similar dynamic is at work.

I think this is spot on. Coaches and teams hate distractions. They have enough of them already without a media circus. If Sam were a strong player though, he'd be on a roster. Coaches would probably have an ISIS guy on their team, if the guy could get 10-15 sacks. They'd just hire an extra guy or two to keep him away from sharp objects, like machetes.

[pbmax]

I think this is spot on. Coaches and teams hate distractions. They have enough of them already without a media circus. If Sam were a strong player though, he'd be on a roster. Coaches would probably have an ISIS guy on their team, if the guy could get 10-15 sacks. They'd just hire an extra guy or two to keep him away from sharp objects, like machetes.

Exactly. In order:

1. Production
2. Talent
3. Draft Pick
3. Distraction

And you only get a year or two on talent alone. Change in regime also negates your draft pick status. We could make a board game out of this.

Settlers of the Combine

Now its not fair to either. I think both deserve more of a shot (Tebow* might finally be getting one), but coaches are control freaks and this stuff drives them nuts. I suspect more people are uncomfortable with Sam on their team because questions of religion dividing a team were a settled favorably long ago while a public same-sex preference is very new. The Tebow phenomenon was a singular confluence of events. But the dynamic is along the same lines.

Its going to take a couple of very good players to tamp down the concerns.


* I don't think Tebow is a starting QB, however he is vastly more talented as an offensive threat than 30 of 32 backup QBs. Needing a separate offense is problematic, but Tebow in Philly might develop into a nightmare for opposing defenses, even while he is not a starter.

[red]

now the whole "too big of a media distraction" is an argument i can understand

if not for the media circus surrounding him, is he on an nfl roster right now?

[pbmax]

now the whole "too big of a media distraction" is an argument i can understand

if not for the media circus surrounding him, is he on an nfl roster right now?

The guy I saw work the 2nd string Packer RT did. But could he do that to the 1st string guy?

He needed another year to develop but didn't get it. His vet combine didn't look promising.

[red]

The guy I saw work the 2nd string Packer RT did. But could he do that to the 1st string guy?

He needed another year to develop but didn't get it. His vet combine didn't look promising.

can most rookies do that against a first string tackle in their first year?

i'm not saying sam would be a star, or even a starter, but i bet he could be a lot better then a lot of guys currently oin the nfl.

but like you said, why would a coach or GM want that media circus for a career backup?

and it would be like the tebow thing. you would have all kinds of people who have no idea about anything related to football, asking everyday why the guy isn't starting

[3irty1]

I think Micahael Sam the player is good enough to still be in the NFL and I don't think its the media circus that cost him that opportunity. Some teams hate distractions but others invite HBO into their house. Two main problems with Sam I think. First, even non-first openly gay players need the right locker room fit. There are probably plenty of GM's who didn't want to shake up their locker room by introducing Sam to it. Secondly I think Sam scared a lot of teams with his use of the media. A media circus you can control is free publicity, but a media circus you can't is nightmarish. What Sam did was honest and brave but the way he invited the spotlight, kissed his bf on national tv, etc. Makes you wonder what he might say about his experience in your franchise in the likely event that he doesn't make your team. Remember all the other GM's have eccentric billionairs to answer to. I don't blame them for thinking Sam's not worth the risk.

I thought he was a good player though. Maybe not quite as good as Shane Ray but IMO Ray was still overdrafted and in a shitty class at that.

[red]

I think Micahael Sam the player is good enough to still be in the NFL and I don't think its the media circus that cost him that opportunity. Some teams hate distractions but others invite HBO into their house. Two main problems with Sam I think. First, even non-first openly gay players need the right locker room fit. There are probably plenty of GM's who didn't want to shake up their locker room by introducing Sam to it. Secondly I think Sam scared a lot of teams with his use of the media. A media circus you can control is free publicity, but a media circus you can't is nightmarish. What Sam did was honest and brave but the way he invited the spotlight, kissed his bf on national tv, etc. Makes you wonder what he might say about his experience in your franchise in the likely event that he doesn't make your team. Remember all the other GM's have eccentric billionairs to answer to. I don't blame them for thinking Sam's not worth the risk.

I thought he was a good player though. Maybe not quite as good as Shane Ray but IMO Ray was still overdrafted and in a shitty class at that.

didn't he even have a TV deal set up before he signed? like with oprah or something

[KYPack]

didn't he even have a TV deal set up before he signed? like with oprah or something

Oh yeah?

I bet Fish was pissed when he heard that shit.

Good to hear you are running the site now, Red.

I doubt you will fuck it up any worse than anybody else has.

[red]

Oh yeah?

I bet Fish was pissed when he heard that shit.

Good to hear you are running the site now, Red.

I doubt you will fuck it up any worse than anybody else has.

i ain't running shit

[Guiness]

didn't he even have a TV deal set up before he signed? like with oprah or something

Yes, he signed on for a reality show on Oprah TV - it was dropped pretty quickly and he announced he was going to 'concentrate on football'.

Hindsight 20/20, he shoulda kept the show, he might have something to do right now.

[MadScientist]

I think Micahael Sam the player is good enough to still be in the NFL and I don't think its the media circus that cost him that opportunity. Some teams hate distractions but others invite HBO into their house. Two main problems with Sam I think. First, even non-first openly gay players need the right locker room fit. There are probably plenty of GM's who didn't want to shake up their locker room by introducing Sam to it. Secondly I think Sam scared a lot of teams with his use of the media. A media circus you can control is free publicity, but a media circus you can't is nightmarish. What Sam did was honest and brave but the way he invited the spotlight, kissed his bf on national tv, etc. Makes you wonder what he might say about his experience in your franchise in the likely event that he doesn't make your team. Remember all the other GM's have eccentric billionairs to answer to. I don't blame them for thinking Sam's not worth the risk.

I thought he was a good player though. Maybe not quite as good as Shane Ray but IMO Ray was still overdrafted and in a shitty class at that.

He was on the PS at Dallas. PS players share the locker room and team activities as far as I know, they just won't suit up on game day. Dallas is a team that lives on media and distractions. They've kept Brent around who fucking killed one of their teammates. If they thought Sam could play he'd still be with them. His even worse numbers at the veterans' combine suggests that he is not committed to doing what is needed to be in the league.

As for the preseason game where he looked good against the Packers, he was going against Sherrod. He could make any defensive player look good.

[pbmax]

He was on the PS at Dallas. PS players share the locker room and team activities as far as I know, they just won't suit up on game day. Dallas is a team that lives on media and distractions. They've kept Brent around who fucking killed one of their teammates. If they thought Sam could play he'd still be with them. His even worse numbers at the veterans' combine suggests that he is not committed to doing what is needed to be in the league.

As for the preseason game where he looked good against the Packers, he was going against Sherrod. He could make any defensive player look good.

One of them was. Another one was after he the other Tackle prospect flipped sides.

[smuggler]

So, here's this. Ty Montgomery vs Damarious Randall...

Ugh..

https://vine.co/v/eZKdOH2pv3Q

[Pugger]

So, here's this. Ty Montgomery vs Damarious Randall...

Ugh..

https://vine.co/v/eZKdOH2pv3Q

What was worse, Randall getting smoked or Ty dropping the ball?

[red]

oh god

well at least they both didn't fall down

[pbmax]

oh god

well at least they both didn't fall down

His hip swivel was fine, just 2 seconds too late.