Official Packers vs. Lions Discussion Thread

[wist43]

45-31 Lions.

We won't be able to stop them - they'll struggle to stop us as well, but it's in their place; they're a much more physical team than we are; their secondary is terrible, but so is ours; their LB's are servicable, our's are complete junk; they can run the ball, we can't - at all.

The Lions have the advantage at the skill positions, and of the 4 lines, i.e. OL and DL's - the only unit that is any good is the Lions DL. They could have 28 pts by the time dunderdummy wakes up.

We need turnovers in able to be competitive with them... if they cough it up 3+ times, we might have a chance, otherwise we're going to be 1-2.

[Teamcheez1]

45-31 Lions.

We won't be able to stop them - they'll struggle to stop us as well, but it's in their place; they're a much more physical team than we are; their secondary is terrible, but so is ours; their LB's are servicable, our's are complete junk; they can run the ball, we can't - at all.

The Lions have the advantage at the skill positions, and of the 4 lines, i.e. OL and DL's - the only unit that is any good is the Lions DL. They could have 28 pts by the time dunderdummy wakes up.

We need turnovers in able to be competitive with them... if they cough it up 3+ times, we might have a chance, otherwise we're going to be 1-2.

Detroit hasn't run the ball any better than we have.
Our secondary is terrible?

Did you have your first cup of coffee before posting this morning?

[wist43]

Detroit hasn't run the ball any better than we have.
Our secondary is terrible?

Did you have your first cup of coffee before posting this morning?

Detroit played Carolina last week... probably the best run defense in the NFL; and even though we faced 2 very tough run defenses - except for a stretch here and there, we haven't been able to run the ball for years.

I would have more confidence in our run game if it did not seem that MM had reverted to his norm, i.e. his 3 zone running plays; but alas, it would seem that he has. It will take him half the season to remember what file cabinet he stuffed those power running plays in - until then, we're gonna struggle... especially against a very stout Lions run defense.

As for our secondary - we played a very anemic passing offense in the Jets, and the Seahawks are very ordinary. Eric Decker broke free for an easy TD; Lockett might not score another TD his entire career... so based on past performance, and until our DB's prove they can hold their own - yes, our secondary sucks.

[denverYooper]

Detroit played Carolina last week... probably the best run defense in the NFL; and even though we faced 2 very tough run defenses - except for a stretch here and there, we haven't been able to run the ball for years.

I would have more confidence in our run game if it did not seem that MM had reverted to his norm, i.e. his 3 zone running plays; but alas, it would seem that he has. It will take him half the season to remember what file cabinet he stuffed those power running plays in - until then, we're gonna struggle... especially against a very stout Lions run defense.

As for our secondary - we played a very anemic passing offense in the Jets, and the Seahawks are very ordinary. Eric Decker broke free for an easy TD; Lockett might not score another TD his entire career... so based on past performance, and until our DB's prove they can hold their own - yes, our secondary sucks.

Stretches like 2013, where they were 4th in the league with 4.7 ypc and the running game carried them for most of the season?

[Zool]

They can run the ball, we can't - at all.

Some of your takes are good. Sometimes it seems like you just say things in the hopes that you're right.

Run O
GB 43 att 160 yards
Det 48 att 148 yards

Run D
Seattle 58 att 181 yards 3.0 avg
Jets 37 att 105 yards 2.0 avg

NYG 58 att 200 yards 3.0 avg
Car 35 att 172 yards 4.0 avg

[wist43]

Some of your takes are good. Sometimes it seems like you just say things in the hopes that you're right.

Run O
GB 43 att 160 yards
Det 48 att 148 yards

Run D
Seattle 58 att 181 yards 3.0 avg
Jets 37 att 105 yards 2.0 avg

NYG 58 att 200 yards 3.0 avg
Car 35 att 172 yards 4.0 avg

You can take 28 yds off of our 160 total, b/c those belong to Rodgers on scrambles. So that 160 is actually 132 yds. Lacy is averaging 3.1 yds/carry. I haven't watched every offensive snap this year, but I have yet to see MM run anything but his 3 default zone plays - maybe he has, and I missed them; but people tend to revert to their nature, and MM wants to run his beloved zone plays, and that is the extent of his run playbook. It must really chap his ass when he has to resort to calling power running plays.

And as I acknowledged, we have faced 2 of the toughest run defenses in the league.

As for Detroit... I expect they'll get it going. New coaching staff, don't know exactly what they've changed on offense - but Bush has been awful. I know he's been dealing with some soreness, but from what I saw of the Carolina game, they haven't been using him to his skill set - which Caldwell acknowledged in his presser.

Overall, at home?? Yes, Detroit is probably better than we are. I know that is sacireligous to say, but it is nonetheless a very supportable position.

Rodgers or no Rodgers, the last time we played them there - the stomped the living crap out of us 40-10, and the game wasn't even that close!!

And even if they are only favored by 1 - they are still favored. You guys act like it is insane to think we could lose to the Lions in Detroit

[Zool]

Overall, at home?? Yes, Detroit is probably better than we are. I know that is sacireligous to say, but it is nonetheless a very supportable position.

The next time Detroit wins a playoff game, it might supportable. Detroit is a mess in the secondary and their O-line is worse than the Packers O-line. They have the clear advantage on the DLine and TE, but where else?

Also, no you can't pick and choose what stats you use to support your theory. Fat Stafford has 10 yards on 5 carries and a TD so take that off the Detroit total then.

[wist43]

The next time Detroit wins a playoff game, it might supportable. Detroit is a mess in the secondary and their O-line is worse than the Packers O-line. They have the clear advantage on the DLine and TE, but where else?

Megatron is Megatron, and Stafford is a damn good QB. He can be up and down, but when he's on?? He'll light us up good... and Golden Tate is a very good WR2.

Add to their DL their LB's. I like Levy a lot... he's turned into a very good, very tough player. Their front seven as a whole is light years better than our - good enough to make the difference.

Yes they are a flawed team - but so are we. So there it is - who can mask their weaknesses, and take advantage of their strengths best is who will win. In their place?? I like them to beat us in a high scoring game.

Sans the Kool-aid, outside of Homerland?? That is a common take on this game.

[Zool]

Megatron is Megatron, and Stafford is a damn good QB. He can be up and down, but when he's on?? He'll light us up good... and Golden Tate is a very good WR2.

Add to their DL their LB's. I like Levy a lot... he's turned into a very good, very tough player. Their front seven as a whole is light years better than our - good enough to make the difference.

Yes they are a flawed team - but so are we. So there it is - who can mask their weaknesses, and take advantage of their strengths best is who will win. In their place?? I like them to beat us in a high scoring game.

Sans the Kool-aid, outside of Homerland?? That is a common take on this game.

Golden Tate is a mediocre #2 receiver IMO. Seattle let him walk without much of a struggle and they aren't exactly stacked at WR. Their #3 is Jeremy Ross? I'd take all of the Packers WRs over the Lions' except Johnson. Stafford is good, but not Rodgers good. Reggie Bush is who we've seen for 6-7 years now. Decent runner, good receiver. I'd take the GB RB group there, but not by much.

Hard to compare 3-4 (2-5, 1-6, amoeba...whatever) LBs to a 4-3 but as a group it's close I suppose. Give the Packers a good MLB and it's not nearly as close.

Packers secondary is better. I'm not sure even Lions fans would argue that.

You put a lot of stock in a team's Dline so that's probably your line of thinking on the matter?

[wist43]

Golden Tate is a mediocre #2 receiver IMO. Seattle let him walk without much of a struggle and they aren't exactly stacked at WR. Their #3 is Jeremy Ross? I'd take all of the Packers WRs over the Lions' except Johnson. Stafford is good, but not Rodgers good. Reggie Bush is who we've seen for 6-7 years now. Decent runner, good receiver. I'd take the GB RB group there, but not by much.

Hard to compare 3-4 (2-5, 1-6, amoeba...whatever) LBs to a 4-3 but as a group it's close I suppose. Give the Packers a good MLB and it's not nearly as close.

Packers secondary is better. I'm not sure even Lions fans would argue that.

You put a lot of stock in a team's Dline so that's probably your line of thinking on the matter?

Their DL habitually bitch-slaps our OL ballarina dancers - that is a huge, huge problem for us.

All other things being pretty equal - yes, that is probably the difference.

[ThunderDan]

Rodgers or no Rodgers, the last time we played them there - the stomped the living crap out of us 40-10, and the game wasn't even that close!!

And even if they are only favored by 1 - they are still favored. You guys act like it is insane to think we could lose to the Lions in Detroit

It is the Rodgers or no Rodgers comments that make the rest of what you write useless. You are so blind to what you want to see that you can't even admit that the Packers are a different team with ARod under center than Flynn.

Yes, last year we got our ass handed to us at DET. I would also submit that the Pack manhandled DET in GB earlier that year when we beat the Lions 22-9 and DET scored a TD at 2:06 in the fourth.

When we didn't have ARod we got killed (seemed to struggle big time last year without ARod) when DET didn't have Megatron they got killed. Stafford still was 25-40 for 262 and a TD (similar numbers to ARod that game).

[wist43]

It is the Rodgers or no Rodgers comments that make the rest of what you write useless. You are so blind to what you want to see that you can't even admit that the Packers are a different team with ARod under center than Flynn.

Yes, last year we got our ass handed to us at DET. I would also submit that the Pack manhandled DET in GB earlier that year when we beat the Lions 22-9 and DET scored a TD at 2:06 in the fourth.

When we didn't have ARod we got killed (seemed to struggle big time last year without ARod) when DET didn't have Megatron they got killed. Stafford still was 25-40 for 262 and a TD (similar numbers to ARod that game).

Arod makes a huge difference - he makes it a contest.

So instead of scoring 10 pts, I see us scoring about 31 against them... yes, he makes a huge difference.

Our defense is still our defense - even with the changes and improvements we've made from last year... dunderdummy is still our DC - best he can be is okay; worst he can be is disaster.

45-31 Lions.

[Striker]

Arod makes a huge difference - he makes it a contest.

So instead of scoring 10 pts, I see us scoring about 31 against them... yes, he makes a huge difference.

Our defense is still our defense - even with the changes and improvements we've made from last year... dunderdummy is still our DC - best he can be is okay; worst he can be is disaster.

45-31 Lions.

The entire problem with your take is that you discount certain facts.

The defense was on the field for 40 minutes of the game. The offense turned the ball over 3 times and only managed 126 total yards of offense despite the defense getting 2 picks and 2 fumble recoveries (one for a TD).

The Packers D actually came to play that game, but was completely hung out to dry by the offense.

So saying "oh, they put up 'x' yards" ignores the fact that the offense never moved the ball and based on TOP alone the Lions were bound to rack up monster numbers.

[wist43]

The entire problem with your take is that you discount certain facts.

The defense was on the field for 40 minutes of the game. The offense turned the ball over 3 times and only managed 126 total yards of offense despite the defense getting 2 picks and 2 fumble recoveries (one for a TD).

The Packers D actually came to play that game, but was completely hung out to dry by the offense.

So saying "oh, they put up 'x' yards" ignores the fact that the offense never moved the ball and based on TOP alone the Lions were bound to rack up monster numbers.

Seriously, you can't be saying that the Packers defensive performance last T-giving was due to a lack of TOP??

What of a game where 2 great defensive teams slug it out to a 6-3 score?? Each team forced 8 punts... is forcing punts so out of vogue that it is considered fascist now??

TOP matters to some extent at the end of the game - after the defense has been out there for 75 plays, but if they're in the 3rd quarter, and the opposing offense has only snapped the ball 53 times, and have already put up 35 pts?? You can't fall back on TOP as a defense for the defense.

Guys running wide open all over the field, huge holes that RB's are walking thru for big gains... we gave up 241 yds rushing in that game - that's HS stuff.

Go ahead and try to defend dunderdummy - he's all yours.

[hoosier]

45-31 Lions.

We won't be able to stop them - they'll struggle to stop us as well, but it's in their place; they're a much more physical team than we are; their secondary is terrible, but so is ours; their LB's are servicable, our's are complete junk; they can run the ball, we can't - at all.

The Lions have the advantage at the skill positions, and of the 4 lines, i.e. OL and DL's - the only unit that is any good is the Lions DL. They could have 28 pts by the time dunderdummy wakes up.

We need turnovers in able to be competitive with them... if they cough it up 3+ times, we might have a chance, otherwise we're going to be 1-2.

They'll struggle to stop us?!?!? What are you talking about, the Packers offense is the worst in the league. Any success it might have is the result of dumb luck or smoke and mirrors. The Packer QB and receivers are worse than its secondary. Oh, and the sky is falling---again!.

[3irty1]

They'll struggle to stop us?!?!? What are you talking about, the Packers offense is the worst in the league. Any success it might have is the result of dumb luck or smoke and mirrors. The Packer QB and receivers are worse than its secondary. Oh, and the sky is falling---again!.

I think MM should consider diplomacy for this one. Perhaps we can negotiate a tie. Anything to keep the soft delicate bodies of our players out of the ring with those physical Lions brutes.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think MM should consider diplomacy for this one. Perhaps we can negotiate a tie. Anything to keep the soft delicate bodies of our players out of the ring with those physical Lions brutes.

Better to negotiate than to coach scared!

P.S. 3irty1, did you see Al Harris Jr. play yet for So. Carolina? I watched the game Saturday against Georgia and the kid played pretty good. Made a couple of big plays. He's gonna be a good one. I hope the Pack drafts him when he comes out.

[hoosier]

I think MM should consider diplomacy for this one. Perhaps we can negotiate a tie. Anything to keep the soft delicate bodies of our players out of the ring with those physical Lions brutes.

I doubt the Lions would let him off the hook for anything less than a negotiated ten point loss. In reality that is a gift that MM should jump at. There are still 13 weeks left to be played, and this would be accepting the inevitable and avoiding a week's worth of season-ending injuries.

[3irty1]

I doubt the Lions would let him off the hook for anything less than a negotiated ten point loss. In reality that is a gift that MM should jump at. There are still 13 weeks left to be played, and this would be accepting the inevitable and avoiding a week's worth of season-ending injuries.

If Pete Carroll were our coach he would get us a tie. McCarthy just doesn't care about hard bargaining at the negotiating table and always resorts to the same three finesse tactics. The Lions' best alternative to negotiation is to whoop our ass and create an unrealistic expectation of dominance for their city and fanbase. A principled negotiator should be able to anchor with that.

[hoosier]

If Pete Carroll were our coach he would get us a tie. McCarthy just doesn't care about hard bargaining at the negotiating table and always resorts to the same three finesse tactics. The Lions' best alternative to negotiation is to whoop our ass and create an unrealistic expectation of dominance for their city and fanbase. A principled negotiator should be able to anchor with that.

Not the switch again!!!