Official Packers vs. Lions Discussion Thread

[wist43]

Some of your takes are good. Sometimes it seems like you just say things in the hopes that you're right.

Run O
GB 43 att 160 yards
Det 48 att 148 yards

Run D
Seattle 58 att 181 yards 3.0 avg
Jets 37 att 105 yards 2.0 avg

NYG 58 att 200 yards 3.0 avg
Car 35 att 172 yards 4.0 avg

You can take 28 yds off of our 160 total, b/c those belong to Rodgers on scrambles. So that 160 is actually 132 yds. Lacy is averaging 3.1 yds/carry. I haven't watched every offensive snap this year, but I have yet to see MM run anything but his 3 default zone plays - maybe he has, and I missed them; but people tend to revert to their nature, and MM wants to run his beloved zone plays, and that is the extent of his run playbook. It must really chap his ass when he has to resort to calling power running plays.

And as I acknowledged, we have faced 2 of the toughest run defenses in the league.

As for Detroit... I expect they'll get it going. New coaching staff, don't know exactly what they've changed on offense - but Bush has been awful. I know he's been dealing with some soreness, but from what I saw of the Carolina game, they haven't been using him to his skill set - which Caldwell acknowledged in his presser.

Overall, at home?? Yes, Detroit is probably better than we are. I know that is sacireligous to say, but it is nonetheless a very supportable position.

Rodgers or no Rodgers, the last time we played them there - the stomped the living crap out of us 40-10, and the game wasn't even that close!!

And even if they are only favored by 1 - they are still favored. You guys act like it is insane to think we could lose to the Lions in Detroit

[Zool]

Overall, at home?? Yes, Detroit is probably better than we are. I know that is sacireligous to say, but it is nonetheless a very supportable position.

The next time Detroit wins a playoff game, it might supportable. Detroit is a mess in the secondary and their O-line is worse than the Packers O-line. They have the clear advantage on the DLine and TE, but where else?

Also, no you can't pick and choose what stats you use to support your theory. Fat Stafford has 10 yards on 5 carries and a TD so take that off the Detroit total then.

[wist43]

The next time Detroit wins a playoff game, it might supportable. Detroit is a mess in the secondary and their O-line is worse than the Packers O-line. They have the clear advantage on the DLine and TE, but where else?

Megatron is Megatron, and Stafford is a damn good QB. He can be up and down, but when he's on?? He'll light us up good... and Golden Tate is a very good WR2.

Add to their DL their LB's. I like Levy a lot... he's turned into a very good, very tough player. Their front seven as a whole is light years better than our - good enough to make the difference.

Yes they are a flawed team - but so are we. So there it is - who can mask their weaknesses, and take advantage of their strengths best is who will win. In their place?? I like them to beat us in a high scoring game.

Sans the Kool-aid, outside of Homerland?? That is a common take on this game.

[Zool]

Megatron is Megatron, and Stafford is a damn good QB. He can be up and down, but when he's on?? He'll light us up good... and Golden Tate is a very good WR2.

Add to their DL their LB's. I like Levy a lot... he's turned into a very good, very tough player. Their front seven as a whole is light years better than our - good enough to make the difference.

Yes they are a flawed team - but so are we. So there it is - who can mask their weaknesses, and take advantage of their strengths best is who will win. In their place?? I like them to beat us in a high scoring game.

Sans the Kool-aid, outside of Homerland?? That is a common take on this game.

Golden Tate is a mediocre #2 receiver IMO. Seattle let him walk without much of a struggle and they aren't exactly stacked at WR. Their #3 is Jeremy Ross? I'd take all of the Packers WRs over the Lions' except Johnson. Stafford is good, but not Rodgers good. Reggie Bush is who we've seen for 6-7 years now. Decent runner, good receiver. I'd take the GB RB group there, but not by much.

Hard to compare 3-4 (2-5, 1-6, amoeba...whatever) LBs to a 4-3 but as a group it's close I suppose. Give the Packers a good MLB and it's not nearly as close.

Packers secondary is better. I'm not sure even Lions fans would argue that.

You put a lot of stock in a team's Dline so that's probably your line of thinking on the matter?

[wist43]

Golden Tate is a mediocre #2 receiver IMO. Seattle let him walk without much of a struggle and they aren't exactly stacked at WR. Their #3 is Jeremy Ross? I'd take all of the Packers WRs over the Lions' except Johnson. Stafford is good, but not Rodgers good. Reggie Bush is who we've seen for 6-7 years now. Decent runner, good receiver. I'd take the GB RB group there, but not by much.

Hard to compare 3-4 (2-5, 1-6, amoeba...whatever) LBs to a 4-3 but as a group it's close I suppose. Give the Packers a good MLB and it's not nearly as close.

Packers secondary is better. I'm not sure even Lions fans would argue that.

You put a lot of stock in a team's Dline so that's probably your line of thinking on the matter?

Their DL habitually bitch-slaps our OL ballarina dancers - that is a huge, huge problem for us.

All other things being pretty equal - yes, that is probably the difference.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Their DL habitually bitch-slaps our OL ballarina dancers

The Packer OL is not soft

[smuggler]

The Packer OL is not soft

That's true. See sig.

[Tony Oday]

Their DL habitually STOMPS our OL ballarina dancers - that is a huge, huge problem for us.

All other things being pretty equal - yes, that is probably the difference.

There I fixed it, then they get the boot from the game and we still win.

[ThunderDan]

Rodgers or no Rodgers, the last time we played them there - the stomped the living crap out of us 40-10, and the game wasn't even that close!!

And even if they are only favored by 1 - they are still favored. You guys act like it is insane to think we could lose to the Lions in Detroit

It is the Rodgers or no Rodgers comments that make the rest of what you write useless. You are so blind to what you want to see that you can't even admit that the Packers are a different team with ARod under center than Flynn.

Yes, last year we got our ass handed to us at DET. I would also submit that the Pack manhandled DET in GB earlier that year when we beat the Lions 22-9 and DET scored a TD at 2:06 in the fourth.

When we didn't have ARod we got killed (seemed to struggle big time last year without ARod) when DET didn't have Megatron they got killed. Stafford still was 25-40 for 262 and a TD (similar numbers to ARod that game).

[wist43]

It is the Rodgers or no Rodgers comments that make the rest of what you write useless. You are so blind to what you want to see that you can't even admit that the Packers are a different team with ARod under center than Flynn.

Yes, last year we got our ass handed to us at DET. I would also submit that the Pack manhandled DET in GB earlier that year when we beat the Lions 22-9 and DET scored a TD at 2:06 in the fourth.

When we didn't have ARod we got killed (seemed to struggle big time last year without ARod) when DET didn't have Megatron they got killed. Stafford still was 25-40 for 262 and a TD (similar numbers to ARod that game).

Arod makes a huge difference - he makes it a contest.

So instead of scoring 10 pts, I see us scoring about 31 against them... yes, he makes a huge difference.

Our defense is still our defense - even with the changes and improvements we've made from last year... dunderdummy is still our DC - best he can be is okay; worst he can be is disaster.

45-31 Lions.

[Striker]

Arod makes a huge difference - he makes it a contest.

So instead of scoring 10 pts, I see us scoring about 31 against them... yes, he makes a huge difference.

Our defense is still our defense - even with the changes and improvements we've made from last year... dunderdummy is still our DC - best he can be is okay; worst he can be is disaster.

45-31 Lions.

The entire problem with your take is that you discount certain facts.

The defense was on the field for 40 minutes of the game. The offense turned the ball over 3 times and only managed 126 total yards of offense despite the defense getting 2 picks and 2 fumble recoveries (one for a TD).

The Packers D actually came to play that game, but was completely hung out to dry by the offense.

So saying "oh, they put up 'x' yards" ignores the fact that the offense never moved the ball and based on TOP alone the Lions were bound to rack up monster numbers.

[wist43]

The entire problem with your take is that you discount certain facts.

The defense was on the field for 40 minutes of the game. The offense turned the ball over 3 times and only managed 126 total yards of offense despite the defense getting 2 picks and 2 fumble recoveries (one for a TD).

The Packers D actually came to play that game, but was completely hung out to dry by the offense.

So saying "oh, they put up 'x' yards" ignores the fact that the offense never moved the ball and based on TOP alone the Lions were bound to rack up monster numbers.

Seriously, you can't be saying that the Packers defensive performance last T-giving was due to a lack of TOP??

What of a game where 2 great defensive teams slug it out to a 6-3 score?? Each team forced 8 punts... is forcing punts so out of vogue that it is considered fascist now??

TOP matters to some extent at the end of the game - after the defense has been out there for 75 plays, but if they're in the 3rd quarter, and the opposing offense has only snapped the ball 53 times, and have already put up 35 pts?? You can't fall back on TOP as a defense for the defense.

Guys running wide open all over the field, huge holes that RB's are walking thru for big gains... we gave up 241 yds rushing in that game - that's HS stuff.

Go ahead and try to defend dunderdummy - he's all yours.

[Striker]

Seriously, you can't be saying that the Packers defensive performance last T-giving was due to a lack of TOP??

What of a game where 2 great defensive teams slug it out to a 6-3 score?? Each team forced 8 punts... is forcing punts so out of vogue that it is considered fascist now??

TOP matters to some extent at the end of the game - after the defense has been out there for 75 plays, but if they're in the 3rd quarter, and the opposing offense has only snapped the ball 53 times, and have already put up 35 pts?? You can't fall back on TOP as a defense for the defense.

Guys running wide open all over the field, huge holes that RB's are walking thru for big gains... we gave up 241 yds rushing in that game - that's HS stuff.

Go ahead and try to defend dunderdummy - he's all yours.

The power of your arguments are further strengthened by implying those seeing what all went wrong with that game are "fascist". And Dunderdummy. What eloquence.

Turnovers are a part of the game. Personally I'll take them and/or punts just as long as the other team doesn't score.

And then you're nitpicking the FG. Detroit's first score of the game. The defense tightened up and allowed a FG, keeping the game entirely within reach. I'm not saying the defense would have been perfect, they probably still allow in the ballpark of 24-30 points, but by that point in the season we also knew that the defense couldn't be leaned on like in 2010 to win games. The offense didn't do their job (4 drives were under a minute), the defense bent and then broke.

And I'm not defending Capers. I was (and still am) ready for him to hit the trail last season. But I am defending the Packers prospects this year at Detroit against someone who seems to be the resident "chicken little" and is trying to justify a ludicrous prediction using what happened in a game last year without Rodgers, with two really terrible safeties, and half a Clay Matthews.

[wist43]

The power of your arguments are further strengthened by implying those seeing what all went wrong with that game are "fascist". And Dunderdummy. What eloquence.

Turnovers are a part of the game. Personally I'll take them and/or punts just as long as the other team doesn't score.

And then you're nitpicking the FG. Detroit's first score of the game. The defense tightened up and allowed a FG, keeping the game entirely within reach. I'm not saying the defense would have been perfect, they probably still allow in the ballpark of 24-30 points, but by that point in the season we also knew that the defense couldn't be leaned on like in 2010 to win games. The offense didn't do their job (4 drives were under a minute), the defense bent and then broke.

And I'm not defending Capers. I was (and still am) ready for him to hit the trail last season. But I am defending the Packers prospects this year at Detroit against someone who seems to be the resident "chicken little" and is trying to justify a ludicrous prediction using what happened in a game last year without Rodgers, with two really terrible safeties, and half a Clay Matthews.

Your attempted defense of our defense against the Lions in last year's 40-10 debacle is sorely lacking.

You said our defense wore down b/c the offense couldn't keep the ball - I showed how we gave up 169 yds and almost the entire 1st quarter of TOP - so you don't want to talk about that anymore??

Your argument that the defense wore down b/c of poor offense is off the table. They had the ball for 10:57 in the first quarter - not b/c of our offense, but b/c the defense couldn't get off the field. We got the fumble on the opening drive, but only after they drove 69 yds, and took 5:24 off the clock.

Were they jetlagged from the 16 hour flight over to Detroit??

Then on the second drive - that you celebrate ending in only a FG - they drove 80 yds and took another 5:33 off the clock.

Here are the running plays up the middle in the 1st Quarter:

1st and 10 at DET 45
J.Bell up the middle to DET 49 for 4 yards

1st and 10 at GB 34
J.Bell up the middle to GB 26 for 8 yards

2nd and 9 at GB 21
(Shotgun) R.Bush up the middle to GB 12 for 9 yards

1st and 10 at GB 12
(Shotgun) R.Bush up the middle to GB 9 for 3 yards (fumble)

Next drive, 1st Quarter

1st and 15 at DET 6 (after a Detroit holding penalty)
R.Bush up the middle to DET 19 for 13 yards

2nd and 2 at DET 19
J.Bell left tackle to DET 31 for 12 yards

(First and 15 from their 6 yd line, and we give up back-to-back runs for 25 yds??) What's wrong with that picture??

Some great defensive plays in the 2nd Quarter??

3rd and 1 at DET 32
J.Ross right end to GB 44 for 24 yards

3rd and 4 at DET 21
(Shotgun) M.Stafford pass deep left to R.Bush to GB 47 for 32 yards

2nd and 3 at GB 5
M.Stafford pass short middle to J.Ross for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2nd and 1 at GB 24
R.Bush up the middle to GB 1 for 23 yards (S.Shields; M.Burnett).

1st and 1 at GB 1
R.Bush left end for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

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The offense was putrid, and we were never going to win that game; but the defense was equally putrid from the first snap to the last.