More Banjo: @ Saints Week Oh Who the *$%&! Cares

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Still would have lost. Its just one of those games were the QB snaps the ball and as fast the WR can run down the field its a 30 yard completion with no packer in sight. I always scratch my head wondering way this always happens against the elite QBs we face. Obviously one explanation is simply that they are elite, but why does it seem that guys are always wide open uncovered.

[denverYooper]

Still would have lost. Its just one of those games were the QB snaps the ball and as fast the WR can run down the field its a 30 yard completion with no packer in sight. I always scratch my head wondering way this always happens against the elite QBs we face. Obviously one explanation is simply that they are elite, but why does it seem that guys are always wide open uncovered.

They called House for a long DPI when he was in perfect position. Why bother covering people if they're just going to call a penalty?

[Cheesehead Craig]

They called House for a long DPI when he was in perfect position. Why bother covering people if they're just going to call a penalty?

That call was junk. Also the OPI by Adams which was the same thing Graham did on his TD catch. All-Pros get the benefit that the rooks don't.

[Patler]

Still would have lost. Its just one of those games were the QB snaps the ball and as fast the WR can run down the field its a 30 yard completion with no packer in sight. I always scratch my head wondering way this always happens against the elite QBs we face. Obviously one explanation is simply that they are elite, but why does it seem that guys are always wide open uncovered.

On a lot of plays last night, the receivers were not "wide open uncovered". Open? I suppose, but on many it took excellent throws to get the completion and not a batted ball or an interception. That is what the elite QBs give you that guys like Cutler do not give you on a consistent basis.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

On a lot of plays last night, the receivers were not "wide open uncovered". Open? I suppose, but on many it took excellent throws to get the completion and not a batted ball or an interception. That is what the elite QBs give you that guys like Cutler do not give you on a consistent basis.

Hmm were we watching the same game? I remember at least 10 passes with no packers within 5 yards. At least 10.

[denverYooper]

Hmm were we watching the same game? I remember at least 10 passes with no packers within 5 yards. At least 10.

Name them.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Name them.

Name them. lol. Right. Yeah let me go get my game tape and I'll have them right out for you. While I'm doing that, go name at least passes that were well contested and almost broken up.

[denverYooper]

Name them. lol. Right. Yeah let me go get my game tape and I'll have them right out for you. While I'm doing that, go name at least passes that were well contested and almost broken up.

You were the one who made a very specific claim - 10 plays where there was not a defender within 5 yards.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

You were the one who made a very specific claim - 10 plays where there was not a defender within 5 yards.

I remember a lot of them, a couple to Jimmy Graham right off the top of head. How about he one near the sideline when Hyde waited for him to pick up another 10 yards and almost score. Or how about 3rd and 8 early in the game and a freakin RB walks out of the back field over the middle and picks up 10. And many others. If I really did have the game tape I would easily find ten.

[Patler]

Hmm were we watching the same game? I remember at least 10 passes with no packers within 5 yards. At least 10.

There are some of those in most games in today's NFL and all the QBs hit those. That's why most of the QB's have completion percentages above 60%. The plays that kill you are the ones where you don't have great coverage, but are close, and the QB nails it. A bit overthrown and the WR doesn't get it, a bit underthrown and the DB can redeem himself. The elite QBs hit those regularly. If they miss those, you soon forget about the ones that were wide open, because the drive stalls anyway.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

There are some of those in most games in today's NFL and all the QBs hit those. That's why most of the QB's have completion percentages above 60%. The plays that kill you are the ones where you don't have great coverage, but are close, and the QB nails it. A bit overthrown and the WR doesn't get it, a bit underthrown and the DB can redeem himself. The elite QBs hit those regularly. If they miss those, you soon forget about the ones that were wide open, because the drive stalls anyway.

Sure a QB can be lights out some games and a little off in others. However, usually the games the QB is a little off are the ones when hes getting pressure in the face. He had all day to throw most of the game.

[Patler]

Sure a QB can be lights out some games and a little off in others. However, usually the games the QB is a little off are the ones when hes getting pressure in the face. He had all day to throw most of the game.

Pressure can be part of it, but do you think Cutler would have had the same results as Brees if he had been NO's QB last night?

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Pressure can be part of it, but do you think Cutler would have had the same results as Brees if he had been NO's QB last night?

My earlier post:

Sadly this is very true. I had a bad feeling about this game. Since 2009, I have far too many memories of packer defenses under Dom Capers allowing 40+ points when playing the elite QBs in the league. Warner, Brees, Manning, Brady, etc. The QBs who know where to go with the football before the snap always kill us. Against the next QB tier down, the defense usually plays very well. See 2010 superbowl run: Vick, Ryan, Culter, Big Ben. I know we are in for a long game when I see Brady, Manning, Brees, and now Kap and Wilson (b/c of read option). Avoid those five somehow in the playoffs and I think we have a decent chance at winning the superbowl.

[Guiness]

On a lot of plays last night, the receivers were not "wide open uncovered". Open? I suppose, but on many it took excellent throws to get the completion and not a batted ball or an interception. That is what the elite QBs give you that guys like Cutler do not give you on a consistent basis.

There were two passes in particular I remember in which a receiver ended up totally uncovered. The announcers commented on it, I really can't remember why it was. I seem to have a bit of spot amnesia where last night is concerned

[pbmax]

There were two passes in particular I remember in which a receiver ended up totally uncovered. The announcers commented on it, I really can't remember why it was. I seem to have a bit of spot amnesia where last night is concerned

There were three I remember. TD to TE in the flat. Similar play, midfield, player into flat after motion. He was covered but it was late and behind. Packers actually corned him well to get him down when they did.

Third was the crossing pattern out of backfield after motion. He was uncovered completely and was the only one other than the TE who I would call wide open. I think an ILB (Lattimore) blew that one.

[Patler]

There were two passes in particular I remember in which a receiver ended up totally uncovered. The announcers commented on it, I really can't remember why it was. I seem to have a bit of spot amnesia where last night is concerned

Sure there were. As I wrote in another post, there are usually some of those in every game. But I didn't see guys running absolutely clear all night long. Yes, they were "open" and Brees put it on the money all night long.

[Guiness]

Sure there were. As I wrote in another post, there are usually some of those in every game. But I didn't see guys running absolutely clear all night long. Yes, they were "open" and Brees put it on the money all night long.

Ya, I saw that after I posted. Usually when someone is wide open, on the replay you see that someone slipped, or ran into his own player, something, there's a reason for it. There were a couple of times in this game where someone was just flat out uncovered...running a flat route I think, go figure.

[Joemailman]

"We need to tackle the damn ball carrier and put him on the ground," he said. "That's what we'll be focused on."

Is this simply frustration with the players, or is MM starting to run out of patience with his defensive coaching staff? He's stuck with Capers for a long time, but he's fired his defensive coaching staff before.

[George Cumby]

Is this simply frustration with the players, or is MM starting to run out of patience with his defensive coaching staff? He's stuck with Capers for a long time, but he's fired his defensive coaching staff before.

I hope the latter. The players, mostly, are there.

[Maxie the Taxi]

"We need to tackle the damn ball carrier and put him on the ground," he said. "That's what we'll be focused on."

Is this simply frustration with the players, or is MM starting to run out of patience with his defensive coaching staff? He's stuck with Capers for a long time, but he's fired his defensive coaching staff before.

When I hear this kind of thing from McCarthy, I get frustrated. It's kind of like the Sales Manager of a declining company saying: "We've got to go out and beat the bushes and close sales." As PB might say, it's just "word salad."

There is definitely something wrong in Green Bay and it's been wrong for some time. The Packers' defense is a mess. In a big game against an elite QB the defense got gashed for 200 yards on the ground and 300 yards through the air.

What's the answer? "We need to tackle the damn ball carrier." Well, tackling the ball carrier helps, but the problems run deeper than that.

PERSONNEL -- The Packers are undersized and under-manned on the D-line. The Saints had five guys on their O-line who are well over 300 lbs. The Pack's D-line is barely over 300 lbs. per man. Two of these men are untested rookies. And this undersizing is by design. Bigger, tested D-linemen like Pickett and Jolly have been available all season after Raji went down, but the Packers' brain trust passed on them.

SCHEME -- So, what is Dom Capers' answer to this intentional mismatch? Play only two D-lineman! That didn't work out too well against the Saints, so reportedly Dom is reconsidering. According to Rob Demovsky:

"Capers might have to decide whether he can continue to play his undersized nickel package, which features just two defensive linemen, as his primary defensive look."

While Stubby rages about putting the ball carrier on the ground, Dom doesn't seem too worried:

"I’ve seen us through the first half of the season play pretty good run defense, so I feel like we can," defensive coordinator Dom Capers insisted Monday. "You look at last night, you might question it a little bit. But I've seen us have our moments where we've played good run defense. That's what we've got to do this second half. We know when you have something like that you get tested, and you get tested until you take care of it."

Are you kidding me? He has seen his team "have our moments" of good run defense?

Now that's the sense of urgency Stubby is no doubt looking for out of his Defensive Coordinator!

To be fair to Dom, I've seen the Packers' run defense have its moments too, but it's been damn few and far between.

HEAD COACHING -- However, Stubby doesn't want to talk about scheme and personnel, which I have just done:

"Everybody wants to talk about scheme and personnel," McCarthy said. "That's something that you’re always weighing or looking at. Or are there other individuals who deserve opportunities? Can we use other individuals a certain way? That's really what we talk about as coaches day-in and day-out. Our issue is on run D are fundamental. We need to do a better job of staying square [and] getting in our gaps."

Yes, our 200 lb. DB's need to fill the gaps between those 300+ offensive linemen and stay square. I can see that.

In my judgement the real problem IS scheme and personnel. Our personnel have been tailored to fit Capers' scheme and we're paying the price for it.